Russia Ukraine Update Thread

originally posted by: Grimpachi
Get this, Ukraine wants 1,000 missiles a day. 500 stingers and 500 Javelins.
The new Javelins cost about 250K each. The missile only for the stinger 120K.

The defense industry is handing out sales bonuses and complimentary beach condos to their employees.sarc

War is a racket. Who benefits? Someone always benefits and it is never the taxpayers.

Missile only for Javelin is also around 120k.

1000 per day for a month is only 3.6b, which is barely a rounding error in American defense spending.

Though I don't think anyone is seriously considering sending 1000 per day for a month.

a reply to: all2human

Yes... and lots of US veterans are there right now fighting as soldiers in the volunteer army. The lines are blurred.

But again, we don't get to choose what and when Putin thinks something is a threat to him or Russia.

That's where the debate here is so off the rails. It's not up to us, because it doesn't matter where we draw the line. We can only observe in tension where Putin communicates he thinks the line is crossed and the act accordingly.
No matter what Putin does, WE still have the option of gauging the situation and make an optimal decision.

But because Putin is so volatile now, after all the mockery, and set backs in Ukraine, we can't even say in good faith "nah, he will be ok with a few thousand troops in Ukraine if we say they are just there to help civilians."

How would we know? Because that's how we would think about it?

Step out of our own propaganda, imagine you are Putin, without ANY of your preconceptions of what is right and wrong, and tell me.... what would you do if you saw me placing launchers in poland close to Ukraine or sent my troops into Ukraine?

a reply to: PacificViking


Are you trying to claim that the U.S. installed Perishings in Poland?

That would certainly be news.

a reply to: flice


How am I wrong?

The missile launchers in Poland pose zero threat to russia, and invading Ukraine wouldn't lessen any such threat even if it did exist here in reality.

originally posted by: PacificViking.

Time is on Russia's side as NATO exhausts itself in a state of high alert.

I think you are confused about whose forces are being 'exhausted'.

a reply to: flice

I don't see Putin as unhinged
he will be replaced eventually, hopefully sooner than later
nuclear exchanges would have already occurred
the Ukraine conflict will drag on
the losses will be felt for average you and me
this is where i see things headed

originally posted by: all2human
a reply to: flice

I don't see Putin as unhinged
he will be replaced eventually, hopefully sooner than later
nuclear exchanges would have already occurred
the Ukraine conflict will drag on
the losses will be felt for average you and me
this is where i see things headed

Apparently your definition of 'unhinged' doesn't include sending a quarter million troops to invade a non threatening neighbor?

Mine does.

a reply to: flice

Educate yourself about the very real differences between surface to surface missiles (like the Russian Iskander-M's in KALININGRAD) and surface to air missiles. You clearly do not grasp there is a difference, else you would not accept the nonsense about "launchers" being pushed by the clique in Moscow.

Cheers

25 March update.

Key Takeaways

* The Russian General Staff is attempting to adjust the war’s narrative so make it appear that Russia is achieving its aims and choosing to restrict operations when in fact it is not achieving its objectives and is being forced to abandon large-scale offensive operations because of its own failures and losses as well as continuing skillful Ukrainian resistance.

* Ukrainian forces claimed to kill the commander of Russia’s 49th Combined Arms Army, operating around Kherson.

* Ukrainian counterattacks northwest of Kyiv made further minor progress in the past 24 hours.

* Ukrainian forces additionally conducted a successful counterattack east of Kyiv in the past 24 hours, pushing Russian forces east from Brovary.

* Russian attempts to encircle Chernihiv remain unsuccessful.

* The military situation in northeastern Ukraine did not change in the past 24 hours.

* Russian forces continue to take Mariupol street-by-street and have entered the city center.

* Russian forces did not conduct any offensive operations around Kherson in the past 24 hours.

More at URL above.

Cheers

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: Xcathdra

He has now shut down all independent media (either closed them or spend 15 years in prison for reporting "false" info). The right to protest has been curtailed. The only way for russian citizens to get news is by way of state controlled media.

That also describes Ukraine except I think they just kill protestors. Then again I doubt any are brave enough to protest. They have killed plenty of chickens to scare the monkeys even before the war.

Ukrainians have protested in russian occupied cities/towns. I doubt they fear their government.

originally posted by: PacificViking
Time is on Russia's side as NATO exhausts itself in a state of high alert.

Do you really think that? NATO is composed of 30 countries and they have not exhausted anything except for their patience with regards to Putin.

You keep trying to apply logic...

Im not defending Putins choice of feeling threatened.

But you don't seem to understand, that it doesn't matter what you think about the situation, because what you think will not change what Putin thinks or decides to do.

You can rant all you want about "that's not fair" or "that doesn't pose a threat"

All your knowledge and preconceptions..... are worthless.

In the end, it's only about what Putin thinks and decides. How can you not see that?

originally posted by: flice
You keep trying to apply logic...

In the end, it's only about what Putin thinks and decides.

Exactly what I've been saying from the beginning, the invasion of Ukraine was based on the delusions of a madman.

originally posted by: flice
In the end, it's only about what Putin thinks and decides. How can you not see that?

Because its not even close to being accurate. You keep ignoring the fact that Russia is not the only country on this planet so what he thinks and what other countries think do matter.

Putin can make his case, as he is trying to do. The other countries will make theirs and together they will see if a compromise is possible.

Compromise being the key word. So far all Putin is doing is bitching about the way he / russia are treated on the global stage. Guess what - Russia is NOT the USSR, regardless of putin being stuck in the 1980's.

If it comes to blows then it comes to blows. People like Putin have an ego problem where they think their opinions are the only ones that matter and in putins case, when he cant get his way, he throws a temper tantrum and tries to threaten people with nukes.

I give Putin 2 months before he is replaced or assassinated by his own people. I say this because soldiers are so pissed at whats going on, one soldier killed his colonel by running him over with a tank.

Another issue Putin just created for himself. By disengaging in Kiev and claiming his forces are shifting to deal with the donbass area, that action frees up a lot of Ukrainian troops. Troops that can be used against Russia and the east to push russia out of Ukraine.

Putin has shot himself in the foot once again...

* - Russian troops entering Slavutich town

* - Ukrainian President: Russia did not abide by the security guarantees it pledged to us

* - Civil defense units in Kyiv region neutralized 81 explosive objects in last 24 hours

* - Demonstration in Slavutich

* - poland no stranger to russian aggression takes leadership role in helping ukraine
click link for video

* - Opinions | Russia is threatening a move that will haunt its economy for decades - Opinion by Benjamin Sawyer - Yesterday 5:00 AM

On March 9, a committee in the Russian Duma approved a law that would allow the Russian government to nationalize the property of foreign firms that have exited or ceased operations inside the country since it invaded Ukraine. This follows calls from prominent Russian leaders, including former president Dmitry Medvedev and United Russia General Council Secretary Andrei Turchak, to punish these firms. The law has yet to move forward in the Duma, but the mere threat of such a step will probably harm Russia’s economy for years to come.

Sanctions can hurt an economy, but they can be revoked. Reputation, on the other hand, is not so easily repaired. Vladimir Putin has spent years working to distinguish modern Russia from its czarist and Soviet predecessors, and he is well aware of the costs associated with proposing nationalization as a wartime policy. His willingness to jettison what could have been one of his most important legacies to pursue a war in Ukraine suggests that the last few months represent a marked turn in Putin’s goals and his vision of Russia’s place in the world.

click link for article


* - Spotify will 'fully suspend' service in Russia

potify is shuttering more of its Russian operations in response to that country's invasion of Ukraine. In a statement to Variety, the company said it would "fully suspend" service in Russia for an indefinite period. While the music streamer initially believed it was important to keep some service running to provide "trusted, independent" information, it was concerned that recent laws restricting free speech and accurate news reporting would put the safety of staff and listeners "at risk."

click link for article


* - How NATO is defending Eastern Europe
click link for video


* - Russia-Ukraine live updates: Biden to meet refugees in Warsaw; Kremlin concentrates on eastern front

Here’s what to know
Russia has begun to mobilize military reinforcements to send into Ukraine as its combat losses continue to grow, the Pentagon said.
* - Biden will deliver a speech Saturday at Warsaw’s Royal Castle that is focused on defending democratic principles and highlighting the international support for Ukraine.
* - Zelensky accused Russian forces of using white phosphorus, a chemical substance that can cause severe and indiscriminate harm to civilians. The Washington Post could not independently verify this claim.
* - American teacher Tyler Jacob has been released from Russian custody and reunited with his wife and daughter. He was detained 10 days ago at a checkpoint in Crimea as he was seeking evacuation to Turkey.
* - The Washington Post has lifted its paywall for readers in Russia and Ukraine. Telegram users can subscribe to our channel for updates.

click link for article


* - The true scale of Russia’s casualties is unknown -
* - Zelensky claimed in the video that more than 16,000 Russian troops have been killed.
* - NATO has tallied up to 15,000 deaths
* - the Kremlin said this week that 1,351 Russian service members have been killed and 3,825 wounded.

* - Kherson: Russia appeared Friday to have at least partially lost control of the southern Ukrainian city on the Black Sea, according to Western defense officials, the first of a handful of midsized cities it has struggled to occupy since the invasion began.

* - Putin reportedly suspects betrayal from within his inner circle
Click link for video


* - Putin will soon have 'no choice' but to stop his invasion of Ukraine, former US general says

Russian President Vladimir Putin will likely be forced to bring his failing monthlong war against Ukraine to a halt, a retired US general and Russia specialist told Insider — a scenario that may happen within weeks after Russian forces have sustained heavy losses and subjected Ukraine's cities to indiscriminate attacks.

click link for article


* - Russian ambassador sues Italian daily over Putin article

The Russian ambassador to Italy, Sergey Razov, said on Friday he was suing Italian newspaper La Stampa over an article that had raised the possibility of killing President Vladimir Putin.

"Needless to say that this goes against the rules of journalism and morality," Razov told reporters in front of the prosecutor's office in Rome after he had deposited the suit.

On March 22 La Stampa published an analysis headlined "If killing the tyrant is the only option". The piece said if all other options failed to halt the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the only solution might be for someone to kill the president.

Speaking through a translator, Razov said his suit accused the newspaper of soliciting and condoning a crime.

click link for article



* - Kremlin TV Descends Into Screaming Match Over Putin’s War Failures

As Russia’s war against Ukraine enters its second month, the grim picture of destruction and suffering is breaking through on state-controlled television. Before the invasion, military experts predicted a rapid takeover of Russia’s peaceful neighbor in a matter of minutes. Now that the reality is starting to set in, they’re grimly surmising that it will take several decades to subdue freedom-loving Ukraine.

State TV’s talking heads have tried in vain to paint a rosy picture of the Kremlin’s invasion, but the cracks are starting to show. On Thursday, with screens depicting dramatic images of demolished Mariupol flashing behind them, hosts of state television show 60 Minutes, Olga Skabeeva and Evgeny Popov, tried to point out the “positives.” They noted that Russia promised to pay compensation to some Ukrainians from the “affected” territories—10,000 rubles each, amounting to a mere $100 dollars.

click link for article

a reply to: Xcathdra

Re: Russian casualties. Appears Moscow is "decimating" its casualty count. Multiply X10 to get more accurate figures.

Cheers

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

Yeah the actual body count probably won't be known for decades.

This right here is why Russia, in my opinion, is losing (from the post above with screaming match over Putin's failures)

State Duma Deputy, General Vladimir Shamanov—who is the former commander of the Russian Airborne Troops—accused the President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky of being a “war criminal” for not surrendering to Russia.

These NTAC 2.0 compliant tools from Russia just dont seem to have a grasp on reality. Russia invades a sovereign country and demands they surrender or its a war crime. They invade a sovereign country and yet demand the world still do business / trade with Russia. They demand the Russian language be a primary language in a country they invaded.

smh...