Russia Ukraine Update Thread

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
Last time I checked NATO, Russia and Ukraine were also aware of this fact. Weldone.

So admittedly your point was pointless.

Do you even have a point I lost track in your vague
Mumbling.

Come direct with clear statements then I can respond in kind.

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
Do you even have a point I lost track in your vague

Yeah, I made it awhile back and you got upset, the Russian military is a joke due to numerous systemic issues. They could prove me wrong by taking Kyiv and other cities but it doesn't look like that's going to happen any time soon if ever.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101
OK looks like you have some reading comprehension issues there.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Aye Ukraine going to ""disarm"". LoL

They are not going to come after you from now until doomsday at all.

Which is possibly a poor expression however nonetheless true.

But i imagine your own cites are going to have to burn like there's are if indeed they are after a measure of justice.

Fact is the Bear poked another Bear, and she's pissed off and not up for hibernating anytime soon.

I should not really say these words coz im the other side of the fence.

But ever heard the phrase "Tiocfaidh ár lá"?

Because there day will come.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Smashing excuses. LoL

You get that NATO is just one step closer to your door step one way or the other now down Sweden and Finland reaction to Putin's antics of depravity?

Good luck burring your heads in that sand.

Lol I lose track of where we are in our exchanges because you don’t use the Quotation button. Why is that? You have been around for a while.

To put things straight or what I believe lead to this situation with Ukraine.

- NATO expanded too far towards Russian borders by assimilating in 2004 to 2009 - Estonia, Latvia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Croatia, Albania, Montenegro join NATO and surround Russia

- 2011 - USA and NATO deploy nuclear capable missiles to Romania and Poland 76 Miles from Russian Border

- Ukraine being the last piece to be assimilated into NATO express their eagerness to Join this would mean NATO surrounding Russian on the entirety of its eastern front something they said they did not want happening and made it abundantly clear. And something that NATOS Promised they wouldnt do. And something that was deemed RECKLESS by the former US secretary of defense. Not the secretary of a bedroom, but the USA thats a high ranking position.

As peter hitchens said who is the former international correspondent for Moscow/Washington:

“I know that our policy of Nato expansion – which we had promised not to do and which we knew infuriated Russians – played its part in bringing about this crisis.

I know that Ukraine's current government, now treated as if it was almost holy, was brought into being by a mob putsch openly backed by the USA in 2014.”

Or Ted Galen Carpenter, published author on foreign policy and international affairs:

“
It has become especially fashionable in such circles to insist that NATO's expansion to Russia's border was in no way responsible for the current Ukraine crisis. Many dismiss all arguments to the contrary as "echoing Putin's talking points," "siding with Putin," or circulating Russian propaganda and "disinformation." Leaving aside the ugly miasma of McCarthyism enveloping such allegations, the underlying argument is factually wrong
“

So Andy, according to these individuals who are well educated on the matter is in in fact YOU who has his head buried so far into the sand, we’ve lost you. Rip. But you looked fashionable in doing so.

That’s my view.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Aye Ukraine going to ""disarm"". LoL

They are not going to come after you from now until doomsday at all.

Which is possibly a poor expression however nonetheless true.

But i imagine your own cites are going to have to burn like there's are if indeed they are after a measure of justice.

Fact is the Bear poked another Bear, and she's pissed off and not up for hibernating anytime soon.

I should not really say these words coz im the other side of the fence.

But ever heard the phrase "Tiocfaidh ár lá"?

Because there day will come.

We’ll see how it all plays out. We’ll see how right you are.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
Do you even have a point I lost track in your vague

Yeah, I made it awhile back and you got upset, the Russian military is a joke due to numerous systemic issues. They could prove me wrong by taking Kyiv and other cities but it doesn't look like that's going to happen any time soon if ever.

Have Russia not taken any cities? Gosh it almost sounds like you’re right there on the ground.

Why have 3 million fled if Russia are stuck in the mud and cities intact. And Russian military has evaporated?

Make some sense... which is it? Have russia made any progress or none at all with their military assault?

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Please explain NATOs shelling of Yugoslavia, IRAQ, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria.

Condemn all or none. Fact is NATOs expansion into eastern europe lead to this mess in Ukraine.

What does that have to do with your false claim that Russia has been peaceful since 1992?

Also, I have taken issue with the West's needless wars. That said, NATO's involvement in Yugoslavia was requested by the UNSC. Meaning Russia could have vetoed the action, but chose not to. The same goes for Libya. Syria and Iraq were not NATO operations so there's no point in bringing them up.

The only one of those that was an independent NATO operation was Afghanistan. That was initiated after Article 5 was invoked by the US following 9/11. To date, that is the only time Article 5 has been invoked in NATO's existence.

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
Have Russia not taken any cities?

You have some sort of reading comprehension thing or do you think I'm going to bite on your strawmen?

Did I say Kyiv? Did you read this?

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Well the military equipment we are providing the Ukraine thus far seems be blowing Russian stuff up just fine especially tanks and APC.

Not our heads that need to stay down.

As to my use of Quotation button, or lack of it, glad it seems to confuse you. LoL

Could always pick a fight with a real nation and watch what happens next.

Poor Russia canny even do a Blitzkrieg with out fluffing things up.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Indeed we will.

While you lot die in the snow and starve to death is my bet.

Just like Adolf Hitler's troops in the last century because you have bitten off far more than you can chew.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Please explain NATOs shelling of Yugoslavia, IRAQ, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria.

Condemn all or none. Fact is NATOs expansion into eastern europe lead to this mess in Ukraine.

What does that have to do with your false claim that Russia has been peaceful since 1992?

Also, I have taken issue with the West's needless wars. That said, NATO's involvement in Yugoslavia was requested by the UNSC. Meaning Russia could have vetoed the action, but chose not to. The same goes for Libya. Syria and Iraq were not NATO operations so there's no point in bringing them up.

The only one of those that was an independent NATO operation was Afghanistan. That was initiated after Article 5 was invoked by the US following 9/11. To date, that is the only time Article 5 has been invoked in NATO's existence.

- NATO was involved in Libya.

- NATO Requested by the UNSC on Yugoslavia? What??? They violated the UN Charter by attacking a fellow UN member state, this is documented at length. They werent requested by anyone stop lying. They took it upon themselves at the behest of the international policeman, USA, to launch a humanitarian war. When they had no legal grounds to do so. Spare me your rhetoric.

Furthermore, they bombed 500 civilians same amount of civilian deaths as the Ukranian conflict or are their lives worth any less???


They had no right to invade these nations, under any pretext they gave. These are sovereign nations with borders just like Ukraine, and there are plenty... PLENTY of nations in the world with uprisings and atrocities where USA:NATO and their “humanitarian” relief are NO WHERE to be seen. They dont care if it isn’t an area of strategic interest. USA cosied up with Saudi, who have inflicted more terror on neighbouring Yemen then you can possibly comprehend but CNN haven’t told you about it.

Estimates are that Russia's troops in Ukraine will be forced into a defensive stance in three days or so because of logistics problems.

My guess is that those estimates are probably correct, as most of the Russian force already has ground to a halt. Most of the attacking is now minor gains against the city of Mariupol.

Rationing ammunition and fuel is one thing. Rationing food and potable water is something else altogether.

Cheers

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Indeed we will.

While you lot die in the snow and starve to death is my bet.

Just like Adolf Hitler's troops in the last century because you have bitten off far more than you can chew.

I’m British, I say what I say because my forebears fought, among other things, for my freedom to say what is unpopular. So I would be betraying their legacy if I did not use that freedom.

I say what I say about this conflict – especially that Western stupidity helped to bring it about – because I believe it to be true.

I am not in Russian pay or a Putin supporter but its easy for others to label me as such just because I sit outside the mainstream agenda peddled by the neocons and western media that the west is blameless, angelic, innocent in all this.

I know too much to follow the crowd here. Deny ignorance thats the motto right? I signed up to that.

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

Sun Tzu says it's time for the counterattacks to begin.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

I sort of respect your resolute stance against overwhelming odds.....but I'm not sure if its wilful ignorance, blind faith or just a burning ideological dislike of 'the west'.....or a mixture of all three?

Nothing is going to change your mind, no amount of evidence, reasoned debate or appeal to any sense of morality you may have.....nothing.
So this is a pointless debate that is achieving nothing.

The only thing left for me personally to say to you is have you ever considered exactly why so many of these ex-USSR nations and former Warsaw Pact countries WANT to join NATO?
Why they approached NATO and sought membership or assistance?

Its because they have experienced relatively recently the reality of Russian domination and subjugation and they don't want to go through it again.
You can give all your bluster, all your smoke-in-mirrors excuses but the FACT remains they are scared of Russian domination....and Putin's actions are vindicating those fears.
The people of these nations and lands don't want to be part of Putin's Great Russian Empire....would you?

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

I said NATO was involved in Libya. At the request of the UNSC. When I was talking about Yugoslavia, I was referring to Operation Deliberate Force in '95 which was undertaken at the request of the UNSC. I admittedly forgot about Operation Allied Force in '99, which was done without the UN's authorization.

Once again though, you're talking to the wrong person. I don't think the West has been in a righteous war since WWII.

So when are you going to condemn Russia for their current actions in Ukraine? I mean if you think the West needs to be condemned for their past actions and you're comparing those to what Russia is doing, then you must certainly believe that Russia needs to be condemned.

- Old images falsely shared as 'Russian plane downed by Ukrainian forces'

Source: news.yahoo.com...

- Germany determined to send more arms to Ukraine

Source: www.usnews.com...

My comment: thats funny as in the beginning they were very reluctant and the last key member to supply due to reliance on Russian gas pipeline.

- NATO is a problem, not the solution - an article by original.antiwar.com...



———————-

As always, fight the propaganda, fight the bias. Share.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

I don't particularly care where you are from or what your forebears got up to, just like my own its probably nothing good and had little to do with freedom. LoL

Think you might possibly entertain which side your bread is buttered all the same.

Maybe your not old enough to remember the cold war era, it was not very nice living with the constant threat of destruction put it that way.

However our enemy in this instance is clear, wee hint they are targeting all our major cites for one thing.

And invading there peaceful neighbour to satisfy a mad mans wet dream that will never materialise.

This is not a liberation. It is an invasion and it is much different than all of our past conflicts since WW2.

Iraq. Syria. Qatar. Afghanistan. Libya. There were many European conflicts in the 80's and 90's also but they were about 'liberation' or ' terror'. Many of the people in those nations wanted to be freed.

This is like Germany invading Poland in WW2 and we all now how that worked out.

Russia is not losing. By a long shot. Are they talking losses, of course, but this propaganda of propping up the Ukrainian leader, well, it is just that. Propaganda. So while people are changing Facebook profiles to the Ukrainian flag guess what you should be concerned about at home?

10% increase in the cost of food in a year.
Bare shelves
6.00 gas/shortages a pump
Inflation at it's highest since the 70's
Corrupt Politicians in Congress
A POTUS who is not leading us with strength
China ready to disrupt our needed goods with supply. Why else would they build military atolls in the Pacific?
Russian aggression towards the US as real as it was in the 80's

These are all real. Instead this week everyone will be arguing about a black radical SCOTUS nominee and that will be the news of the week and the civilian deaths in Ukraine will fall to a byline till needed again. I would guess that would be the boots on the ground announcement from the POTUS in the coming weeks.