Evidence of an Ancient Advanced civilization that spanned the Globe

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: XipeTotex

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: Vroomfondel

I lean toward some type of chemical reaction that dissolved or soften the stones.

Or in a more out of the box idea. What if these structures are way older than we think like millions of years and back then those stones were naturally softer. A clay like material hardening over millions of years becomes granite somehow?
Maybe it doesn't take millions of years for the granite to harden?

Granite powder is very reactive, it forms a good geopolymer matrix, when properly measured and applied, it only takes about 24 hours to harden, and a couple of days to reach its final strenght

That's true, when you mix in a bunch of this stuff.

Mayb e you could find another recipe, but we already know the AEs made faience from granite (and other rock) dust.

Harte

There are thousands of recipes but i would stick to a phosporic acid based metakaolin.

And by the way, there are geopolymers imitating stone in a very accurate manner all around us.

Maybe you could try to convince me that ancient egyptians had absolutely zero knowledge about alchemy/chemistry. That would be fun.

a reply to: Akragon

Here's what bugs me about every "Advanced" ancient civilization theory, they use Paleolithic construction materials. Never alloy reinforced concrete. These omissions of logic make it hard to ever take seriously. Obviously they didn't concern themselves with seismicity or structural engineering either.   The used heavy stones and gravity after all.

1600 tons? Yawn. Cranes used for building subs at shipyards approach a lifting capacity of 21,000 tones for a single crane. Same "simple machine" concept of leverage as 3000 years ago. Stronger cranes today, but if Ancients could lift 600 ton obelisks, what's triple the weight?

More recently, the Coral Castle dude did it with homemade cranes. Moved 30 ton blocks of sandstone with wood, rope, and pulleys. And then moved it miles down the road. Lot of work if anything.

There's too much myopic confirmation bias in Von Daniken-esque theories.  It's not as difficult to move slabs of stone as The History Channel makes it appear. Bias wants to see the machine tools.

Everything is achievable with date correct technology. To demonstrate how to cut granite in a strait line all you need is a copper saw and sand. The line will be as strait as the forged saw. Just gotta keep using the groove to expand the line.



Lack of technology doesn't give enough credit to problem solving ability of the ancients using the technology they did have.

a reply to: AlexandrosTheGreat

Directly applicable to your comment.
www.human-resonance.org...

Sound can also be used to destroy, like radio frequency's noise has harmonic's and a harmonic resonance can be achieved using either sound or radio frequency's.

In an old account I once read about a soviet era Experiment (which I believe was related to the Chernobyl incident and was based likely (not certain of this bit it fit's the description I read) at the Duga Radar Array in the Ukraine soviet scientists were working on a radio frequency weapon, there answer to star wars.

It used a broad spectrum radar that would saturate an incoming object be that a missile or an aircraft or even if they had managed it a satellite with a very broad range of high intensity radio waves.

The reflected radar echo would then be analysed to determine the most absorbed frequency's and it was these they would use.

Using the graph of absorbed frequency's and there absorption levels these were then calculated and there inverse complex conjugate would then be aimed at the incoming target from a more directional smaller and more powerful radar array, this in turn had the affect of causing radio frequency harmonic resonance in the incoming objects structure causing it to heat up and shake apart at the atomic level.

According to what I recall they needed a nuclear power plant for this experiment and needed more and more power based on the size, distance and absorption property's of the incoming object, they never got it up to the range they wanted but apparently took down unmanned aircraft proving the concept worked.

As the cold war ended this was either hidden from the west or destroyed, the Duga array remains but only it's skeleton and of course it was intended originally as an indirect early warning radar meant to be able to detect objects beyond the curve of the earth such as incoming NATO ICBM's or aircraft.

Now I may have gone off the topic slightly but it has bearing on the concept of harmonic resonances.

a reply to: Degradation33

Think about this.

People ROB OUT that is take away useful materials from ancient sites and it still goes on today even with modern recognition of how important many of these sites are.

It is one reason why so few ancient castles survive in Europe for example and metal would be a very prized resource as would other reusable materials meaning that eventually it all or most of it would be carted off to be used for some other purpose after a civilization has past, even without humans eventually nature reclaims it as well, concrete, even ROMAN concrete which by all accounts is superior to our modern form of concrete (And being made using volcanic pumice set's under water) turns to sand (the Pantheon in Rome which for a long time was the largest domed building in the world is made mostly of this concrete), metal rusts and let's be fair they don't use stainless steel in rebars.

Back in the 1800's some ancient city's of Mesopotamia were only rediscovered when locals mentioned they were a good place to mine brick's out of the ground.

By that time they appeared a nothing but hill's.

www.sciencefocus.com...

Now oddly if we all vanished today the Ancient stone pyramids of Giza and even Stonehenge would likely outlast our best modern materials buildings, the Giza Pyramids definitely would though over time they would become very more natural hill like in appearance as erosion continued to eat them away.

But by the time they were gone all traces of our civilization would have already been very long gone, at least those above ground and you know there ARE tales of ancient mines working being found by modern miners, one in the US or Canada I read about said they broke into ancient workings were the coal had fully Oxidized despite there great depth and was useless, these ancient tunnels were triangular instead of square though.

In other accounts large out of place objects as well as many smaller ones have been found, not a miner is there to make money so don't expect him or his boss to close down a mine just so some spectacle wearing pencil neck can close them down for archaeological or OTHER purposes and so very few of those finds are ever reported and those we have heard about are merely the tip of one huge ice berg, finds even include entire ship's.

hsp.org...

Or Ruin's of building's at ridiculous depth's.
www.hecklerspray.com...

A common theme comes through though, they are hidden or the mine is closed and the witness or even there evidence is either ignored or mocked.

But every now and then it get's interesting.


Then it comes down to interpretation.

originally posted by: Degradation33
a reply to: Akragon

Here's what bugs me about every "Advanced" ancient civilization theory, they use Paleolithic construction materials. Never alloy reinforced concrete. These omissions of logic make it hard to ever take seriously. Obviously they didn't concern themselves with seismicity or structural engineering either.   The used heavy stones and gravity after all.

1600 tons? Yawn. Cranes used for building subs at shipyards approach a lifting capacity of 21,000 tones for a single crane. Same "simple machine" concept of leverage as 3000 years ago. Stronger cranes today, but if Ancients could lift 600 ton obelisks, what's triple the weight?

More recently, the Coral Castle dude did it with homemade cranes. Moved 30 ton blocks of sandstone with wood, rope, and pulleys. And then moved it miles down the road. Lot of work if anything.

There's too much myopic confirmation bias in Von Daniken-esque theories.  It's not as difficult to move slabs of stone as The History Channel makes it appear. Bias wants to see the machine tools.

Everything is achievable with date correct technology. To demonstrate how to cut granite in a strait line all you need is a copper saw and sand. The line will be as strait as the forged saw. Just gotta keep using the groove to expand the line.

Lack of technology doesn't give enough credit to problem solving ability of the ancients using the technology they did have.

and here is the video that pic came from...



And yes... they managed to cut granite a little bit... a couple inches in a few days... copper chisels have little to no effect on the rock, actually leaving more of the tool damaged then the rock

Hard to believe the ancient Egyptians use such methods to make their sculptures and blocks... let alone huge blocks

like this as shown on a previous page



the out and inside of this is smooth as glass, even into the corners of the inside

and in my other thread you can clearly see "scoop marks" all over the aswan quarry...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

no one seems to have an explanation for those....

Lots of theories... yet no one can recreate scooping out granite like clay

Sure maybe its just time and pressure... but i doubt it

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: Akragon
In a time, perhaps before time as we know it... there lived a people who had technology that is far beyond anything we have in modern times. These people moved incredible weights as IF they were nothing... and carved/shaped the hardest stone like it was clay.
....

What happened to these people? And how did they create these marvels of technology thousands of years ago in a time where we are taught humans were tribal, barely getting out of caves

....and this is why you should check your sources.

The video is showing structures that are separated by thousands of miles and hundreds (or thousands) of years and trying to make a case for a "global civilization." The pyramids of Egypt (they pretend as if there's only the ones on the Giza plateau instead of the over 120 known ones in Egypt) were constructed about 2,000 years before the Inca pyramids... and those were constructed over 500 years before the Cambodian pyramids.

That's not a global culture, there.

If you check, the rest of the claims about a "global civilization" are equally flawed... and the concept relies on the Earth suddenly acquiring the "Great Stupidity Field" -- where a catastrophe hits and suddenly you can't remember the recipe for making fire and you and your neighbors can't figure out how to make a loom to weave cloth or how to actually plant and irrigate crops... or tame animals and harness them.

We've seen civilizations collapse before, and the people don't lose skills or knowledge. But in order for a "great lost global civilization" to occur, you have to have a big population that somehow survives a collapse all over the world (because we don't see a big crash in the numbers of humans) and that the collapse somehow happened everywhere all at once and people forgot how to smelt iron and so forth and went back to hunkering down in brush shelters and whacking rocks together.

I've been hopeing you would reply eventually... Tis your field more or less IF im not mistaken

maybe these polygonal structures are the same people moving from one place to another... the incas admit they didn't build the huge megalithic walls... they were there when they arrived...

And the other places mentioned... all seem to have the same technology we can't recreate...

unfortunately this leads to the discussion of the gods of their culture... which may be far fetched but not entirely out of the realm of possibility in my opinion

i've heard that puma punku was said to be built over night... then again its quite possible i heard that on Ancient aliens but i do believe it was said by the elders of that area, and written in their myths and legends...

all across these cultures theres mention of god or sky people as well...

What do you make of that idea... and why can't we figure out exactly how these structures were created with all our "technology" and science....

as pointed out above in my other thread... in the aswan quarry they seem to have scooped granite like it was ice cream...

And in peruvian quarries the stone looks as if it was melted...

any ideas?

originally posted by: Akragon

And yes... they managed to cut granite a little bit... a couple inches in a few days...

It was about 6 cm in 20 hours.
That's less than two weeks to drill out the entire sarcophagus, if you had a crew of old archaeologists and they helpers (who were themselves not stoneworkers.)

Probably take ten to twenty times that long to flatten out and square off the surfaces, and then polish.

But it's not like they didn't have the time or the manpower. Apis bulls were killed after 25 years. You can make a lot of these sarcophagi in 25 years with multiple crews working. But they didn't need to do that.

Harte

Harte

a reply to: LABTECH767

That’s piezoelectric. Created by mechanical pressure on granite or quartz. It can also be used to make a type of non-thermal light bulb. Which has been proven that the Egyptians used to light tunnels underground.

a reply to: mcsnacks77

Why dont we try the same technique in today's era than?

a reply to: VulcanWerks

I don’t think anyone is arguing that past civilizations didn’t have the technology

It's a common theme and it's been expressed in this thread, I figured it was worth addressing.

All of known human (or human-ish) history could have played out maybe 10 or 20k times in the course of earth’s history. To think we’re the peak all of advancement the planet has ever seen might be a stretch, arrogant, or flat out wrong

This I definitely agree with, I think we have traits and skills that are hard wired into our programming. A little bit like how nature always fills niches and certain evolutionary traits tend to play out independently, even over completely different genus or animal groups.

Even in mainstream history there's plenty of cases where societies have came to the same conclusions or invented the same thing independent of each other. Modern man might not be that old and our societies have been radically different over the last 6000 or so years yet they all seem to come up with similar inventions and work from the same eerily familiar playbook.

Tools go back 3.3 million years so it wasn't just homo sapiens sapiens either.

There’s no shortage of mysteries around the subject of ancient structures. Tech, “why?”, etc. are all huge curiosities.

Yes there's plenty of mystery but there's also plenty of evidence of their methodologies too. That's the great thing about architectural history, it's right there and written in stone. Their building techniques, the evolution of technical feats and the spreading of knowledge and designs.

Old kingdom Egyptians knew of the arch, vaults, rudimentary domes and buttresses. They were a smart bunch fully capable of building the things we say they did again the thing that's fascinating to me is some of these building techniques are found elsewhere in the world developed independently, sometimes 1000's of years apart.

Hardwired. We take things then make things, it's our nature.

a reply to: RAY1990

(Haven't read the entire thread, so sorry if this has been covered). Seems to be a quite massive burden of proof on how the perfectly precise grooves and "rivets" on the H-blocks of Puma Punku -- which was an ancient complex or temple of some sort that was mysteriously blown apart (by what had to be a supermassive force) -- could have been done with only copper or stone tools. That stonework is very apparently exactly what it very strongly appears to be: good evidence of advanced machining in ancient times. Doesn't necessarily denote aliens, but clearly lost science, technology.

a reply to: vNex92

We do in cell phones, diesel fuel injectors, acoustic guitar pickups, grill igniters, ultrasonic transducers, vibration sensors, certain printers, telescopes, microscopes, and musical greeting cards. It’s fine for smaller applications. Non-thermal lightbulb is as high powered as it gets without making it too dangerous. They think King Tut was electrocuted to death using this power.

a reply to: RAY1990

The only problem with that is that our DNA shows that our brains started having cognitive abilities within the last 50,000 years. They haven’t figured out why it changed all of a sudden, but they have almost ruled out evolution being the cause.

originally posted by: Akragon
maybe these polygonal structures are the same people moving from one place to another... the incas admit they didn't build the huge megalithic walls... they were there when they arrived...

I kinda doubt that the Incas were saying they didn't build the megalithic walls... particularly since they're date to the Inca empire.

And the other places mentioned... all seem to have the same technology we can't recreate...

"Can't recreate" and "can't emulate" are two different things. Here's a perfect example. I can't recreate that in my kitchen (and I've had it mind you, and fixed it, too). This doesn't mean that nobody cooked or that you couldn't make chow mein then or now.

We have images of people of that time (by people of that time) showing them at work doing this kind of thing.

i've heard that puma punku was said to be built over night...

I've heard that Babe the Blue Ox (American folklore reference) is the one who pulled the crooked roads into straight highways in the lake area states. This doesn't make it true, you know. Also the "made overnight" claim doesn't seem to be verified when you track down the origins.

all across these cultures theres mention of god or sky people as well...

But not consistent ones.

If you and I and folks here on ATS each got visited by a Real Alien (tm)... say, Mr. Spock from Star Trek... and he came to teach us how to ... oy... make a medical transponder, then we'd all have the same story: "guy from the stars, walked out of a ray of light, weird/greenish skin, said to do this and that, strange gesture with the hand in greeting, peculiar name transponder/transponter/kranshponker/dhansphondher(etc), black pants, blue shirt with gold braid." The stories we would NOT have are "came from the stars and brought us seed pods" or "came from the sky and taught us how to make mud bricks"... etc, etc.

History is like a "crime scene." You can come up with an idea to fit any piece of evidence - Sherlock Holmes (I think) calls it "finding a button and sewing a vest on it" where you pick up an ordinary button that you found somewhere and suddenly (without ever having seen it) decide that it came from a vintage 1960's man's camel double-breasted coat size 42 made by Richmond Brothers with fabric by Royal Velour. As a history detective you need to put ALL the evidence (including the stuff you don't like) and the origin of that evidence in one heap and then you can decide.

What do you make of that idea... and why can't we figure out exactly how these structures were created with all our "technology" and science....

The people speculating aren't familiar with or working with ancient technology. Heck, I worked in computers for my entire career and am not even remotely sure that I understand how a Babbage Engine works. Nor could I recreate one exactly.

Or Greek fire. Or a lot of things. Like (and I kid you not) the Roman recipe for peacock brains (which they ate, along with lark tongues) The world is full of lost recipes for a lot of things from early antiquity onward. We have no plans for how they built castles or the Vatican or lots of stuff. We can't figure out how they did it but we can emulate it (except for the lark's tongues because that's gross and wastes an entire bird for a sliver of flesh.)

That doesn't mean that they didn't do it.

as pointed out above in my other thread... in the aswan quarry they seem to have scooped granite like it was ice cream...

I've BEEN to that quarry. Watched the locals show us how they used granite pounders to pound the rock (made the same kind of scoop marks -- and looked at the museum's collection of pounders found at the site (in the hundreds) ... and the locals, Egyptian documents, Egyptologists, etc, tell us that this is how they got the rock out.

I tend to believe them. I don't think people or aliens ran around creating rounded double-fist sized chunks of granite just to toss them into the quarries near the half-finished projects.

(and you know that the "impossible" walls only look that way from the front, right? And that the back side is full of unmatched cuts with mortar smoothing the seams between?)

So what evidence do you have that the historians and ancient documents and so forth are wrong? We can take a single case if you like and discuss that (rather than trying to go through hundreds of sites.) Pick two different sites from different areas of the globe that you think show compelling evidence of one type of ancient technology that must not have been done the way archaeologists/scientists/historians say it was done and must have been given by some well-traveled global civilization.

Generally in these discussions people fling all sorts of things at the topic. I'd like to talk about just one type of technology that you think is "out of place" for two very different civilizations... look at best evidence and discuss that.

originally posted by: mcsnacks77
a reply to: vNex92

We do in cell phones, diesel fuel injectors, acoustic guitar pickups, grill igniters, ultrasonic transducers, vibration sensors, certain printers, telescopes, microscopes, and musical greeting cards. It’s fine for smaller applications. Non-thermal lightbulb is as high powered as it gets without making it too dangerous. They think King Tut was electrocuted to death using this power.

Uh... who exactly thinks this and what sort of medical and forensic experience do they have?

I have never seen or heard this and all the evidence I know about doesn't support this.

a reply to: Harte

Oh, well, then, you must believe it. But wait.......did CNN report it. No I guess not so of course you wouldn't even consider it.

a reply to: mcsnacks77

How does our DNA show that?

Archeological history says humans were using a variety of tools 250-500,000 years ago, things that take planning and time to develop. We were highly advanced at tool making by 50,000 years ago.

Homo sapiens weren't alone in tool making either, there's lots of new things being discovered that are rewriting the history books. We've been naive about intelligence/cognitive abilities in general tbh.

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: Harte

Oh, well, then, you must believe it. But wait.......did CNN report it. No I guess not so of course you wouldn't even consider it.

Only a person utterly ignorant of what is known would believe there was any "ancient civilization that spanned the globe."

So, you have yet to bother to learn the facts in hand, but don't hesitate to take offense when someone points that out.

Harte

originally posted by: RAY1990
a reply to: mcsnacks77

How does our DNA show that?

It doesn't.
mcsnacks only knows about trains. He's an Engineer.

Harte

a reply to: Byrd

The investigation draws on the expertise of Egyptologists and EES members including Dr Robert Connolly, Dr Ashley Cooke, Steve Cross, Dr Yasmin El-Shazly, Dr Melinda Hartwig and Professor Salima Ikram, and a number of scientists and other specialists from a wide variety of different disciplines.
Some think he had a chariot accident and then accidentally caught fire during the funerary ritual. But that’s silly. Electrocution makes the most sense due to the damage to his bones.