Evidence of an Ancient Advanced civilization that spanned the Globe

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Byrd

And this... shows a clear separation between the stone work of the people that lived in the area at the side... and well... lasers lol

Could you spend a few sentences on what you think is "laser cut" here? And how you know it's lasers instead of iron chisels (and then please identify where this is and what culture we're looking at?) It's not a photo I know, and for all I can tell it's someone's garden wall in South London.

And this is found at Cozco i believe... or Ollantaytambo

you can have a look at it in this lecture at about 32 mins... along with a whole lot of other examples of stone cutting that we don't understand exactly how it was done... and i was joking when i said lasers... but it might as well be...

Looking at a lot of the stone work, and considering the tools the inca had in their time... you can see where they added on to the existing structures with their own stone work which is childs play compared to the precision cuts of whoever was there previously... as i've said before... and im not sure IF its true, but their elders have said they didn't create this stone work.... it was there when they arrived




Pretty sure you could smash away for years with the tools they had... or stone hammers and you wouldn't make a dent in these rocks

As for moving the blocks, I always think of the Coral Castle. Edward Leedskan(sp.) did state his technology on moving stones was based on the Egyptians.
He also built it and moved it to specific longitude and latitudes with a tripod with some box and a pickup. There are some old threads here, In Search of shows, different web sites on him.

a reply to: Hanslune

No one knows but we can speculate that they did what other ancient cultures did they dragged then on sledges by manpower from quarry up a ramp and pulled them into position.

If you’re going to speculate at least use some logic when doing so. Dragged by ‘manpower’ on sledges is the height of ignorance. For a start people have always used strong animals to drag things for them, and the principles of leverage go way back. No doubt they must have used various mechanical contraptions and very clever techniques to achieve what they did. The idea they used brute force for everything is ridiculous.

originally posted by: Akragon

as i've said before... and im not sure IF its true, but their elders have said they didn't create this stone work.... it was there when they arrived

Yes they did say that because it was true and I'm puzzled why you appear to be amazed by this...lol

You keep mentioning this like it is important. You do realize that the Inca empire came into existence in the 15th Century AD. That is like Frenchmen noting that the Roman ruins were there when they arrived...?

originally posted by: surfer_soul


If you’re going to speculate at least use some logic when doing so. Dragged by ‘manpower’ on sledges is the height of ignorance. For a start people have always used strong animals to drag things for them, and the principles of leverage go way back. No doubt they must have used various mechanical contraptions and very clever techniques to achieve what they did. The idea they used brute force for everything is ridiculous.

Yet we have evidence that they did - do you deny that those stones were moved from the quarry? Do you have any evidence it was done by a method that the Roman's had?

Sure they could have used animals no problem with that but controlling them can be a problem, men respond instantly to verbal commands animals do not. However, I wouldn't discount use of animals from the quarry to site but positioning the stone men or machine assisted men would probably work better.

Mechanical advantage? Sure that is one of the option especially for the Roman's of that time.

Anything else you'd like shout about? lol

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Byrd

And this... shows a clear separation between the stone work of the people that lived in the area at the side... and well... lasers lol

Could you spend a few sentences on what you think is "laser cut" here? And how you know it's lasers instead of iron chisels (and then please identify where this is and what culture we're looking at?) It's not a photo I know, and for all I can tell it's someone's garden wall in South London.

And this is found at Cozco i believe... or Ollantaytambo

you can have a look at it in this lecture at about 32 mins...

No. Just no.

I asked for one piece of evidence - something that matched across several cultures that didn't have contact with each other. I did not ask for a low-to-no information video that I'm supposed to sit through.

Evidence is "this piece is known from this time period and was found *here* and has these properties (age, material, size, location, details) and is a match for this item from this other place (age, material, size, location, details.)

Evidence is not "look at this long video."

C'mon, now.... bring your best evidence for your argument and leave videos for the schoolkids.

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: Hanslune


If you’re going to speculate at least use some logic when doing so. Dragged by ‘manpower’ on sledges is the height of ignorance. For a start people have always used strong animals to drag things for them=---

Only true in cultures that domesticated large draft animals.

There aren't any large draft domestic animals in the Americas prior to European invasions. The Polynesians also built lots of things (like Easter Island) without large draft animals.

Manpower is the most common and easily managed source.

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Byrd

And this... shows a clear separation between the stone work of the people that lived in the area at the side... and well... lasers lol

Could you spend a few sentences on what you think is "laser cut" here? And how you know it's lasers instead of iron chisels (and then please identify where this is and what culture we're looking at?) It's not a photo I know, and for all I can tell it's someone's garden wall in South London.

And this is found at Cozco i believe... or Ollantaytambo

you can have a look at it in this lecture at about 32 mins...

No. Just no.

I asked for one piece of evidence - something that matched across several cultures that didn't have contact with each other. I did not ask for a low-to-no information video that I'm supposed to sit through.

Evidence is "this piece is known from this time period and was found *here* and has these properties (age, material, size, location, details) and is a match for this item from this other place (age, material, size, location, details.)

Evidence is not "look at this long video."

C'mon, now.... bring your best evidence for your argument and leave videos for the schoolkids.

Well i gave you as much as i could... gave you the area, the stone is andesite or granite... and i haven't heard of any place else that has this sort of stone cutting, though im sure it can be found in other places as well

short of actually going there, i don't know what else to give you since you're not interested in videos...

personally i don't see a problem with it since theres lots of them showing the exact same thing

but IF you don't wanna play thats alright as well

originally posted by: Akragon
Well i gave you as much as i could...

Exactly. And there was nothing to go on.

gave you the area,

Which is a city and an archaeological park. But not WHERE it is (like...say "the round astronomical ceiling of the Roman-era Temple to Hathor in Dendera.") A good source will tell you what building or pavement or rock face or rock wall where it's located.

"Where" makes a huge difference.

the stone is andesite or granite...

So which one is it? A good source will tell you exactly.

and i haven't heard of any place else that has this sort of stone cutting, though im sure it can be found in other places as well

So it's not really the proof that you needed. A good proof would be (as an example) this statue labeled "Anubis" which is clearly Roman in style but has the name of the Egyptian deity and the solar crown of an Egyptian deity (and carrying the scroll of authority in his right hand, again an Egyptian motif) but has the sandals and toga and caduceus of the Greek deity Hermes.

That's an example of a unified culture... one culture learning from the other and creating a blend.

short of actually going there, i don't know what else to give you since you're not interested in videos...

videos are for kids, really.

You could give me a site that has references...like if we were discussing the way "divine parents" were used by royalty and I referred you to the Birth colonnade of Hatshepsut. I can link a number of different sites (including some papers, but that's not necessary) and photos of the colonnade taken by lots of people (along with people standing next to it so we could see the size), you can see where it's located (not "Luxor" not "West Bank of Luxor" not even "Hatshepsut's Temple of A Million Years" -- but "the right side of the ramp on the first level and across from the Voyage of Punt" You can then see what it's carved from (local limestone) and when.

But "here's a video" results in people posting a lot of videos that nobody watches...and (like this one) are so low in information that you (no fault of yours) couldn't even tell me what the stone is or where it's located.

a reply to: Byrd

Fair enough... the area in question is called Naupa Iglesia, roughly translated it means "old church"... and it is located along a trail just outside of Ollantaytambo near the district of Pachar..not far from Macchu Pichu, in The Sacred Valley. On the right side of the Huarocondo gorge

The entire area is granite

This link gives its exact location...with pics of other things found close by which also have said precision stone work like the false doorway in question
m.megalithic.co.uk...

Theres even a nifty interactive map...

Is that better?

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: Hanslune


If you’re going to speculate at least use some logic when doing so. Dragged by ‘manpower’ on sledges is the height of ignorance. For a start people have always used strong animals to drag things for them=---

Only true in cultures that domesticated large draft animals.

There aren't any large draft domestic animals in the Americas prior to European invasions. The Polynesians also built lots of things (like Easter Island) without large draft animals.

Manpower is the most common and easily managed source.

No my point is they would have used the easiest and most practical method available, I am not claiming they used animals for everything, I am suggesting they would have at least used the principles of leverage and mechanical advantage rather than brute force, tools that aren’t up to the job and eons of time to complete the work!

You have evidence in stone, that simply couldn’t be made with the tools and techniques associated with the culture that supposedly made them. So if the cultures you associate with them couldn’t do it, who did?

a reply to: Byrd

Exactly. And there was nothing to go on.

I did not ask for a low-to-no information video that I'm supposed to sit through.

Well you won’t have nothing to go on if you refuse to look at it will you?
How would you know it’s a low-to-no information video if you refuse to watch it?

If you did look you would find these videos are mostly composed of images detailing precision stone work which will make you pause and gape in wonder if you have any practical skills or experience with anything.

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: Byrd


If you did look you would find these videos are mostly composed of images detailing precision stone work which will make you pause and gape in wonder if you have any practical skills or experience with anything.

No, we have sufficient knowledge, and I personally have worked stone at various sites enough to know how simple tools and rocks can transform other rocks so I know ancient people could do that and we can do the same with simple tools now. THAT and there is simply no evidence of powered machinery or other high tech in those eras. If the only answer you have is 'magic' then it isn't evidence.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Byrd

Fair enough... the area in question is called Naupa Iglesia, roughly translated it means "old church"... and it is located along a trail just outside of Ollantaytambo near the district of Pachar..not far from Macchu Pichu, in The Sacred Valley. On the right side of the Huarocondo gorge

The entire area is granite

This link gives its exact location...with pics of other things found close by which also have said precision stone work like the false doorway in question
m.megalithic.co.uk...

Theres even a nifty interactive map...

Is that better?

Yes, and thank you so much! Now there's some good detail to chew over, eh?

Is this the place of the "carved double snake lines"? Or are you talking about the doorway carving?

In either case, it's a lovely site. I'll have to look and see what the age of the place is.



(edit for others interested in this: the shrine that is referenced here is Choquequilla and it's an active site, visited by the local shamans. It is not a protected archaeological site although it's a known tourist site (which may say something about the relative age and importance of the site or that it's something that's been modified frequently. I'll look that up later.)

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: Byrd

Well you won’t have nothing to go on if you refuse to look at it will you?
How would you know it’s a low-to-no information video if you refuse to watch it?

Easy: Because when I started asking specific questions, they were unanswerable by anyone who watched the video. You watched it. Can you tell me exactly where the spot is that they're discussing or is it just the name of a city and a location? Can you tell me what else is nearby and whether it's consistent with other work in the area or a "one off" that seems to be unique?

If you did look you would find these videos are mostly composed of images detailing precision stone work which will make you pause and gape in wonder if you have any practical skills or experience with anything.

I've seen photos and studies of Inca Mesoamerican stonework (and seen some of it in person) as well as photos of some of their quarries. There's a lot of things like this and it's pretty clear that the techniques were shared between the different cultures ("civilizations") from the Olmec onwards.

But videos really are low information sources. The lovely shrine that's referenced in my previous post is carved from black granite (not mentioned in the video) and is actually known as "Choquequilla" (not mentioned in the video) and there's information about it that's never touched on in the video. Apparently you just get moving pictures and statements about "impossible stonework."

Nothing about who made it, when it was made, why it's being used today as a shrine, and what modifications might have been made and what else was found there. Nothing about its being in continual use since its creation or about it being part of a "processional way" (which it was, actually.)

There's a lot of interesting things about Choquequilla... and the thing about text is that you can then go look it up rather than trying to guess about how the name is spelled (particularly hard if the person giving the name isn't from the same country as you are) and so forth.

There's an ancient belief that "names are power"...but this is true on the Internet. If you know the name of something you can look it up.

Videos don't usually give the names or the correct spelling.

a reply to: Hanslune

Have you worked quartz with simple and rocks? Can you explain how it was done? The intricate quartz heads in the British Muesum for example?

How about overcuts in hard stone, don’t you think they would have noticed long before they made such deep unnecessary cuts if they were using simple tools and methods? My answer isn’t ‘magic’ and I have never claimed such. Every attempt at recreating the methods put forward with basic tools I have seen isn’t feasible.

A little more research shows that the "doorway" shrine (if that's what we're discussing) is in Ollataytambo - which was part of the estate of the emperor Pachacuti who lived from 1418–1471/1472. He ruled the kingdom of Cusco and is responsible for Machu Piccu.

So at most it's about 700 years old. Barely "pre-Columbian".

Wikipedia source

And yes, they had bronze tools and a boatload of experience cutting stone by then.

a reply to: Akragon

At the end of the day, mainstream archaeology is formed by a bunch of liars and thieves, they are no better than erich von däniken, smoke,mirrors and snake oil.

Just google "pools of liquid mercury found in Teotihuacan" with the name Sergio Gómez.

Then try to search pictures/proof of this amazing site, according to articles, they even lifted statues from this liquid state mercury.

You will not find evidence to back up the official claim.
Its all just Hollywood BS.

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: Hanslune

Have you worked quartz with simple and rocks? Can you explain how it was done? The intricate quartz heads in the British Muesum for example?

Oh heck yes. They teach flint knapping at archaeology festivals and in field work. Takes practice but t'aint tht difficult.

How about overcuts in hard stone, don’t you think they would have noticed long before they made such deep unnecessary cuts if they were using simple tools and methods? My answer isn’t ‘magic’ and I have never claimed such. Every attempt at recreating the methods put forward with basic tools I have seen isn’t feasible.

For what culture and what time period?

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Byrd

And this... shows a clear separation between the stone work of the people that lived in the area at the side... and well... lasers lol

Could you spend a few sentences on what you think is "laser cut" here? And how you know it's lasers instead of iron chisels (and then please identify where this is and what culture we're looking at?) It's not a photo I know, and for all I can tell it's someone's garden wall in South London.

And this is found at Cozco i believe... or Ollantaytambo

Pretty sure you could smash away for years with the tools they had... or stone hammers and you wouldn't make a dent in these rocks

I've been trying to figure out this as a puzzle-challenge to my mind. Been rebuilding my brain after Covid, neurogenesis.

What I've come up with in theory is that the Incans are most likely a combination between native Americans and a volcano serpent boat group that colonized islands in the Indian Ocean and Pacific that had volcanoes and volcanic soil. The specific volcano serpent boat group is most likely an alliance between Thira (aka. Kalliste) who joined with the Egyptian monarchy c. 2500 B.C.E. and expanded into the Persian Gulf and Indian Ocean to volcanic islands and volcanoes on the coastline. However, Egypt's dynasty changed and Thira (Kalliste) lost their ports to the west. When Thira was destroyed by its massive explosion c. 1700 B.C.E. some escaped to Egypt. And there is a record of a Pharoah Thotmes III sponsoring a relocation of the survivors from Thira (Kalliste) along with an Egyptian convoy to volcanic lands in the Pacific.

Obviously, Peru and all its volcanoes would be an obvious choice for survivors of Thira (Kalliste). And with the Egyptians they had the technology of building step pyramids to the sun god and the Titan serpent goddess Rhea.

So then comes the technology to cut thru andesite (an 8 or 9 on the Mohs scale) in perfect lines. In modern times it takes a diamond blade to do that. And to everyones knowledge, no diamond blade saws were stolen by the Spanish nor found at burial sites. Which leaves possibility #1) they had emerald blades which the Spanish stole #2) they salted their metal saw blades to form carbon nanotubes which carbon nanotubes are harder than diamonds OR #3) they had the technology to use powdered aluminum to form alumina for blades which is harder than a diamond. I'm thinking it might be #2 but could be #3 but there is a lack of spectral analysis on Incan blades to determine such things. Without spectral analysis there's no evidence how they did it.

Which brings my brain to the challenging puzzle, how did the Incans vitrify the stone so that it was water tight, no ice erosion and no blade of grass could penetrate for thousands of years???

Luckily there is spectral analysis of vitrified stone from the Incans, specifically, vitrified Andesite spectral analysis. And the rough estimates are that on the surface of vitrified andesite...it has roughly...
3200 counts of Silicon
2000 counts of oxygen
1300 counts of Aluminum
1000 counts of Magnesium
800 counts of Calcium
380 counts of Carbon
200 counts of Phosphorus
100 counts of Sodium
100 counts of Potassium
100 counts of Tellurium
75 counts of Sulfur
50 counts of Chlorine

The 2 oddities that stand out are Tellurium, which is rare and the high levels of aluminum. None of these should be found on andesite surfaces.

I'm thinking that Tellurium was the pigment. After all, no one wants to look at a plain grey andesite wall. But Tellurium adds a bluish silvery pigment and Tellerium happens to be found in the region just northeast of Lima.

I think aluminum is part of the ignition for fire in vitrification. If you can grind aluminum into a fine powder with a coffee grinder (great YouTube videos) then the Incans could grind aluminum into a powder with a mortar and pestle. Aluminum powder ignites very easily and burns at a temperature between 2535-3400 degrees Celsius. So based off spectral analysis of vitrified Andesite Incan walls, aluminum powder is the most likely source of fire/heat in the process of vitrification.

Then comes the rest of the spectral analysis. This is a volcano serpent boat group. Volcano soil. Volcano fire. Obsidian tools. Obsidian blades. Volcano soil for the best quality agriculture.

So theory #1) perhaps a source of volcanic ash was used in the vitrification process. This would give the figures silicon, oxygen and magnesium in the spectral analysis. It would be similar to Korean or Chinese wood-ash glazes for pottery. The ash heats to melt and forms a glaze. Based on the measures of sodium and chloride, looks like seawater or brackish water might have been used to bind the ash.

Theory #2) it would be a lot easier to make the shimmery shine (with bluish silver Tellutium tint) using ground Obsidian rather than volcanic ash. That too would give similar silicon, oxygen and magnesium ratios.

Which brings to theory #3) that vitrified glaze is harder than the andesite itself. Makes me think that perhaps the materials used actually created alumina on the surface. Alumina is firmed from aluminum and oxygen and creates a material harder than diamonds. So maybe the real equation in Incan vitrification of andesite is volcanic ash or ground obsidian, mixed with tellurium tint, mixed with salt water or brackish water (or perhaps in the process of grinding aluminum into a powder, salt/brackish water was used) and the correct ratio when painted on the walls (aluminum powder ignited) forms alumina to be harder than diamonds.

Those are my main theories. It is possible.