Why Does Biological, Organic Life Exist in a Universe that is Inorganic ?

originally posted by: Grenade

I can measure the effect of intelligent design. DNA being a perfect example. Similarly to Gravity i need to believe in the cause, rather than directly measure.

If i see a complex chain of natural language which encodes information to create a conscious being, it makes logical sense to me that this code was the result of design. Have you ever seen matter randomly combine in such a way that it creates complex structure without interference from intelligence?

Complex to you, but all made up of simple chains connected over and over. I do not understand how many use some form of complexity to then say it does not follow the natural processes within the universe.

originally posted by: Saloon

No evidence according to your obvious bias. As for me, our existence
being absolutely dependent on exactly the right planet provisioned with
all the life supporting systems we need to survive. Temperature sustanence
oxygen to breathe water. Those requirements are miniscuel in comparison
to the full scope of what is needed to support life on this planet. You think
you can just ignore the timing of it all. Blatently ignoring the obvious
cognition and super intelligence responsible for everything we;ve
been provided?

So a planet of trillions and trillions falls within the zone of life and it is only by design? I would suggest if we didn't see planets do this then that would be more by design. Your assumption is that life on Earth is by design and it could have gone a billion different ways. Rewind Earth 600 million years ago and all life would be very different including humans would not be here.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I learned a long time ago never to try and convince an atheist of anything. They’re the most stubborn of all the religious types. There’s a reason there’s very little support for their ideology, most of which comes from Western countries on the brink of collapse both economically and spiritually. Woke culture aka total stupidity is where you’ll find most of them lurking. Without God you can excuse all sorts of abhorrent behaviour and moral authority becomes personal preference and feelings.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Nobody knows what the Earth was like 600 million years ago. Your scientists can speculate only but to say it’s anything other than approximations and loose assumption would be disingenuous.

No surprises here btw from any of this conversation. Atheists with very little scientific knowledge or understanding spouting BS they know nothing about and using it to justify their rigid belief system.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Provide examples of this “natural” process happening from start to finish without intelligent intervention from humans. So simple organic molecules transforming into DNA naturally without intervention. That’s the challenge.

a reply to: Xtrozero

How many of those other trillions of planets are confirmed to harbour intelligent life?

a reply to: Xtrozero

Yeah it’s really simple to encode volumes of information into a mass measurable in picograms, which stores all the required instructions for the development, function, growth and reproduction of all known organisms. I’m sure it’s all just random chance and time. Strange how highly intelligent beings such as humans can’t replicate the process you claim is simple and natural.

:rolls eyes

All science does is try to explain perception, discovering and explaining (poorly) structure and design that already exists.

originally posted by: Xtrozero


Complex to you, but all made up of simple chains connected over and over. I do not understand how many use some form of complexity to then say it does not follow the natural processes within the universe.

Because it has been proven time and time again that these various processes are literally impossible in terms of thermodynamics. The only part that is thermodynamically favorable is monomer production.

It is probabilistically equivalent to a monkey writing a Shakespearean epic, except that monkey isn't given anything to write with

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Xtrozero

Provide examples of this “natural” process happening from start to finish without intelligent intervention from humans. So simple organic molecules transforming into DNA naturally without intervention. That’s the challenge.

He can't because no one can. If this were possible it would've been determined in a lab by now. They've been searching for over 100 years. Many people who believe in these theories don't realize the scientists they put their faith in also rely on blind faith

a reply to: cooperton

Or the instructions on how to develop into a monkey.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: cooperton

Or the instructions on how to develop into a monkey.

If a team of intelligent geneticists can't create life from scratch then it's quite absurd to default to unintelligence being the cause of genetics.

originally posted by: Grenade

I learned a long time ago never to try and convince an atheist of anything. They’re the most stubborn of all the religious types. There’s a reason there’s very little support for their ideology, most of which comes from Western countries on the brink of collapse both economically and spiritually. Woke culture aka total stupidity is where you’ll find most of them lurking. Without God you can excuse all sorts of abhorrent behaviour and moral authority becomes personal preference and feelings.

I'm not an atheist. I kind of feel the same way looking from this side of the debate to the other side, so your opening line works both ways. The difference is my side can change while your side is based on faith and that is not something I wish to tackle anytime soon. I also disagree with your last statement too as I have seen a lot of "abhorrent behavior" in God-minded people, some of the worst in history. Most religions have a good fundamental moral baseline within them, but that isn't the only place to find or believe in morals and ethics etc.

originally posted by: Grenade

Nobody knows what the Earth was like 600 million years ago. Your scientists can speculate only but to say it’s anything other than approximations and loose assumption would be disingenuous.

No surprises here btw from any of this conversation. Atheists with very little scientific knowledge or understanding spouting BS they know nothing about and using it to justify their rigid belief system.

Once again stop with the labels... Science knows more about the earth 600 million years ago than you do of God which is an unfalsifiable subject. If there is an intelligent design I see it as creating everything and letting the actual thing God created operate within the rules, laws etc that govern the universe without special magical requirements too. What this means is with God or without the universe operates the same, so to me it is not really a subject I typically engage in since, once again, it is unfalsifiable either way.

Where things get really murky is when people like you mix in the bible God with intelligent design. There are still a lot of Gods within the human abstract construct, so what makes your God the real one? Also, you want to talk about morals and the teaching of Jesus within the topic of the origin of life and that really doesn't blend well.

originally posted by: Grenade

Provide examples of this “natural” process happening from start to finish without intelligent intervention from humans. So simple organic molecules transforming into DNA naturally without intervention. That’s the challenge.

Show me how God created life, a bigger challenge. At least mine is solvable whereas yours is not.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I can’t, the universe is far too complex for a mere mortal to understand. That would require a super intelligence or supreme being.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Show a singular example of me stating I hold any Christian belief, or any religious belief for that matter in my 20 years of posting history.

People like you should think before they speak.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Did you miss the part where I clearly stated repeatedly that I don’t believe in any religion?

Once again, I believe the universe was created and shows design in the form of organic life. I don’t however think any man or theology accurately describes our reality, not even science nor can we ever fully understand the creation event.

The one thing I’ve found is that atheists are more stubborn, obnoxious and intolerant compared to the religious folk on this forum.

Next time you see someone post something outrageously stupid, have a quick look at their posting history and before long you’ll see a pattern that ends with a religion hating atheist.

originally posted by: Grenade

How many of those other trillions of planets are confirmed to harbour intelligent life?

I would say every one of them that has the right conditions. The proof is Earth and we also have found organic compounds in asteroids, some of the oldest objects in the universe. I'm not sure where you are coming from with this question, as in are you one that believes the universe and all in it was created 6000 years ago as it is today?

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Xtrozero

Yeah it’s really simple to encode volumes of information into a mass measurable in picograms, which stores all the required instructions for the development, function, growth and reproduction of all known organisms. I’m sure it’s all just random chance and time. Strange how highly intelligent beings such as humans can’t replicate the process you claim is simple and natural.

All science does is try to explain perception, discovering and explaining (poorly) structure and design that already exists.

Well first, your use of the term random is incorrect. It is not random when chemical processes follow strict rules, laws, and Principles. Chance has nothing to do with it either... I think the better way to say it is whether life and everything is predetermined or not. If we rolled the earth back 600 million years ago there would still be life today, but would it all be different to include no humans as those 600 million years play out again?

a reply to: Xtrozero

No, I’m stating that out of these trillions of life supporting planets and objects in space not one of them has ever been shown to have life outside of Earth. Organic compounds are not the same thing as intelligent life. The thing with building blocks is you generally need to place them with design in order to create structure.

Can you stop putting words in my mouth now?

I’ve never really had issue with you on here before but this confrontational attitude is wearing thin.

originally posted by: Grenade

I can’t, the universe is far too complex for a mere mortal to understand. That would require a super intelligence or supreme being.

You have literally answered my question for me. Go back a mere 200 years and ask anyone how an atomic bomb works and they would reply to your exact statement above. Now go forward 1000 years, do you really think they will say the same statement as you just said to the answer of how life started in the universe?