The Fight for Election Integrity Continues -- Audits, Criminal Investigations, Legislative Reform

a reply to: carewemust

I understand and share your concerns...

I doubt the State Legislature will have the time and opportunity to legislate all the necessary corrections and improvements.

But I damn sure expect that more than enough people are paying attention to be a big fat sharp thorn in the side of those who would try to cheat again. I also expect some will be ready, willing and able to observe and document suspicious actions or activities. And, of course, any would be cheaters will know this as well, and be less inclined to do so and more inclined to look over their shoulder.

And we can bet that many candidates for state office will make the audit report and the independent canvass major campaign issues, and therefore election issues. Kari Lake, Mark Finchem, Wendy Rogers.... They already are!

Sometimes you just have to go to war with the weapons that you have... not the ones you wish you had.

a reply to: Boadicea
That's what I was wondering. Which weapons exist in Az, and who has the integrity/bravery to use them for the good of the people.

The most detailed audit/investigation in the history of this country found tens of thousands of illegal votes...in a single county!

Those who still claim the 2020 election was the most accurate in history, are saying all prior elections were totally botched.

a reply to: carewemust

Don't underestimate Arizonans... and their orneriness!

And remember, Arizona really isn't red or blue -- it's purple. Independents and especially small "L" libertarians at heart outnumber both die-hard Republicans and die-hard Democrats.

And Kari Lake is gaining ground in ALL camps.

Plus, there are several grassroots citizen groups organizing and planning and preparing for the 2022 AND 2024 elections. Knowledge is power and what has been learned is being put to good use. Some efforts will be known by the public at large... other efforts will not.

You're all worried about fraud and less worried about the reason Trump endorsed Ms Lake?

Let's review his reasoning for a moment, and what this is really all about.

Exhibit A in the Trump team’s plan to install friendly governors in states to potentially overturn votes in his favor in 2024.

This people, this is the big huge thing in the background of all this, while they have you all riled up worrying about election security and fraudits, they are doing this in the background... Kari Lake is very much part of this game too..so is Ms Rogers, et al.

This is why I say take the blinders off and actually reason it out, there's no reason to claim fraud, unless you're trying to change things to benefit you the next time around, otherwise it makes little to no sense to scream it and get everyone all pitchforks and torches mad about it. But what the hell do I know, obviously in your eyes nothing, and in others I'm just some dumb lib girl that has drunk the Kool aid.

I know a lot more than you do about this whole mess, and just because I refuse to get involved with either side in it, doesn't mean that I won't keep trying to get you all to wake the heck up and see what's REALLY happening.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: carewemust

Don't underestimate Arizonans... and their orneriness!

And remember, Arizona really isn't red or blue -- it's purple. Independents and especially small "L" libertarians at heart outnumber both die-hard Republicans and die-hard Democrats.

And Kari Lake is gaining ground in ALL camps.

Plus, there are several grassroots citizen groups organizing and planning and preparing for the 2022 AND 2024 elections. Knowledge is power and what has been learned is being put to good use. Some efforts will be known by the public at large... other efforts will not.

That's new info. Thanks. IMO, most Americans should be Independents, since Republicans and Democrats are so extreme, one way or the other.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: carewemust

I understand and share your concerns...

I doubt the State Legislature will have the time and opportunity to legislate all the necessary corrections and improvements.

If we can't have printer stenography, perhaps we could simply number the ballots. Like if Runbek is printing 2,000,000 ballots, then each simply gets a number from 1 to 2,000,000.

If someone then prints additional fraudulent ballots using data that wasn't given to Runbeck, they would have to either

A: Re-use a unique number that had been given to another ballot already.

or

B: Give the fraudulent ballots numbers higher than 2,000,000 (or whatever the highest number of the run had been.)

Either choice will be detectable in an audit.


That's actually enough to make me feel safe that ballots aren't being printed elsewhere using stolen print data.

a reply to: vkey08

Worded as the media lies we have been seeing since the election. "Overturn the election" That's a fraud right there.

Disallowing the fraudulent votes is what this is about in Trump's arena, but lying leftists ignore the facts and establish lies that no one believes. Just keep on pretending like they do.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
a reply to: vkey08

Worded as the media lies we have been seeing since the election. "Overturn the election" That's a fraud right there.

Disallowing the fraudulent votes is what this is about in Trump's arena, but lying leftists ignore the facts and establish lies that no one believes. Just keep on pretending like they do.

You're missing my whole point.

This is not about fraudulent votes, never really was. I have yet to hear anyone in the MSM state that there is something more going on here, other then the various sides pointing fingers at each other, but after watching it all, and putting it all together, it's amazing.

1) Cry fraud, your base will energize and start to rally and yell
2) have a Fraudit , claim it uncovered proof, but never actually show any of that proof, just figures, nothing concrete, I can make up figures.
3) claim you have the real proof, have a rally and then say the proof was hacked, again no real proof.
4) yell louder about fraud, get others riled up and on the bandwagon.
5) make sure people sympathetic to you are "elected" in to office
6) If you lose again, SCREAM FRAUD and those people you "got elected" will do everything you want.

It's classic, it's just so simple and classic it's amazing you all don't see it.


(and don't think I noticed you called me a liberal, I did notice it and I am ignoring it)

Yes, but that narrative could also be falsely applied to cases of real fraud.

It's a "is the boy crying wolf, or is there a wolf?" problem. What sickens me is that ideology is the only thing swinging most people's decision making process.


People who think there was fraud are latching onto 5 or 6 SELF CONTRADICTORY different story versions, and treating them all as certain to turn out to be true. (Whereas, if fraud sufficient to overturn the vote has really happened, then most likely ONLY ONE will turn out to be true.)

But I'm not about "argument to the man". I don't judge an idea by its adherents. I just it by what merit I would think it had if I had come up with it.

Also I set expectations for evidence in advance. I ask "what evidence would exist if this were true?" That way you don't think every puff of smoke out there is a "smoking gun".

a reply to: vkey08

Exhibit A in the Trump team’s plan to install friendly governors in states to potentially overturn votes in his favor in 2024.

No link for Eleanor Clift from you??? How rude!

Kari Lake Is the Camera Ready, Big-Lie Loving Future of the MAGA Movement

LOL! Kari's making the big boys and girls nervous... GOOD!!! Arizonans like pissing off our wouldbe masters. This will play out well. Very well!!!

ETA: Your efforts to "wake us up" and "make us see" are failing badly. This thread isn't about us. And at this point it's just harassment. If you have something we don't know about election integrity, audits, criminal investigations, and/or legislative reform pertaining to election integrity, share it. If you don't, you're just harassing your fellow members.

a reply to: bloodymarvelous

If we can't have printer stenography, perhaps we could simply number the ballots. Like if Runbek is printing 2,000,000 ballots, then each simply gets a number from 1 to 2,000,000.

Keep your fingers crossed for Mark Finchem's success... Numbered ballots are part of Mark Finchem's Ballot Integrity plan. As well as other marks -- I don't recall now if it was watermarks or holograms, perhaps both. He has been pushing it here in AZ, and nationwide.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
a reply to: vkey08

Worded as the media lies we have been seeing since the election. "Overturn the election" That's a fraud right there.

Disallowing the fraudulent votes is what this is about in Trump's arena, but lying leftists ignore the facts and establish lies that no one believes. Just keep on pretending like they do.

To be fair, everyone knows that if the election was fraudulent, then Trump was in fact and in deed the "winner," and should be the President. Whether it is possible to correct the fraudulent certification and inauguration under the law and the Constitution is an entirely different matter.

However, in the bigger picture, Trump is just the Orange Boogeyman that the cheaters are using to keep the fear in the masses. The problem for them is that Biden has already done far worse and far more damage to our nation in less than a year than Trump did for four years. In stark comparison, Trump is looking pretty damn good to a lot of folks. And EVERYONE knows it... whether they will admit it or not.

originally posted by: Boadicea


However, in the bigger picture, Trump is just the Orange Boogeyman that the cheaters are using to keep the fear in the masses. The problem for them is that Biden has already done far worse and far more damage to our nation in less than a year than Trump did for four years. In stark comparison, Trump is looking pretty damn good to a lot of folks. And EVERYONE knows it... whether they will admit it or not.

Yeah. Trump is their "we didn't cheat, but if we did it was to stop him." argument. Lots of dems won't admit it, but are willing to let it slide if the cheating was over that.

There is an underlying message: that letting the people have their way would lead to something bad.

I think I know exactly what it will lead to: massive government worker and government contractor unemployment. Which to them might feel like a holocaust.

a reply to: bloodymarvelous

Yeah. Trump is their "we didn't cheat, but if we did it was to stop him." argument. Lots of dems won't admit it, but are willing to let it slide if the cheating was over that.

And they do so with absolutely no shame... in fact, exactly the opposite! And we see it right here with the biggest detractors refusing to address even the fact that countless laws were broken, that safeguards were grossly compromised (if not outright destroyed), with hypocritical double standards for what is acceptable for their side but absolutely horrible if the other side does it. And it's the same SOP for every big issue.

As I've said so many times, we KNOW laws were broken, we KNOW security and safeguards were compromised, and we KNOW that questionable invalid/illegal ballots were counted... so we KNOW that the results were NOT certifiable with any degree of certainty whatsoever. They can only be ignored and denied, or excused and rationalized.

There is an underlying message: that letting the people have their way would lead to something bad.

Yup! Because in their minds, they know better, they're the moral and "kind" people, they're the ones on the right side of history... so the ends justify the means. Their ignorance and arrogance is dangerous to us all.

I think I know exactly what it will lead to: massive government worker and government contractor unemployment. Which to them might feel like a holocaust.

And that's exactly what we need. Back to basics.

Mobile Voting could simplify things. Every lawfully registered voter gets a single vote.

Arizona tests mobile voting: www.12news.com...

originally posted by: carewemust
Those who still claim the 2020 election was the most accurate in history, are saying all prior elections were totally botched.

You betcha. Although, 'botched' cannot be used when done purposely.

a reply to: Boadicea

You "know laws were broken"

How do you know this exactly? Reports from biased sources? Postings online that have lots of figures but no actual evidence? Conjecture? Trump said it? Wendy said it? Mike Lindell said it?

Unless you are the one investigating you do not "know laws were broken"

You can assume, conject, theorize, and/or think, but you cannot know, anymore than I can know for sure laws were or were not broken because I am not in the courtroom, I have no access to all the alleged evidence, and I am not the judge or attorneys in the case (of which currently there are? C'mon now, what criminal cases on widespread election fraud are there? Zero? Really? And the few cases there are, who was the fraud perpetrated by? Biden supporters? No? Really?)

This is the problem with dealing in absolutes, and I can tell ya, even the people that are "in the know" will never give an answer in an absolute, because as we all should know by now, there are about a million different variables that could look like something was done wrong to the untrained person, but in reality were done absolutely right. This applies to everything, not just this mess.

Do I personally think there was fraud in this election? Not on the level everyone is screaming about. I think that there was isolated incidents, like have happened in every election since Thomas Jefferson. Do I personally think that this whole mess was started to give an excuse to pack certain positions with people that would be more likely to overturn an election if it was asked of them, hell yes I do.

Again, this is the problem with your statement, you don't "know" anymore than anyone else on here that is reading second hand accounts and really poorly written reports. We "know" only two facts for sure.

1) Donald J Trump said there was fraud and got a lot of people to listen to him because he's Donald J Trump
2) Every single case that has been brought before a Federal judge, Trump appointee or not, has been thrown out for lack of actual evidence.

Those are the only two things we all really "know"

Odds and probability is all we get.

You have to use the scientific method. Have a hypothesis and test it.

So right now, my hypothesis is that stolen print data is being used to print ballots. Many more were printed than we saw, but they only introduced enough to get a narrow victory. Lots of bits of data line up with that.

I'm just as happy to disprove it as to prove it, because it would finally put the matter to rest for me. The other kinds of fraud being thrown around would never be prolific enough to get a win from a loss.

wendyrogers.org...

Finding, for example, that 58% of voters couldn't be identified as real humans. That suggests false registrations, and the overwhelming number would be due to the county in question having never voted Democrat in a presidential election since 1948.

If you wanted to do deep, guaranteed win, election fraud that's exactly how you'd do it. The press will claim minority voters registered in record numbers, or something, in order to explain the swelling of the voter rolls.

One person in the Maricopa election office puts in the false data. Then generates print data from it, and walks out of the building with a thumb drive. And that's all it takes.

originally posted by: carewemust
Mobile Voting could simplify things. Every lawfully registered voter gets a single vote.

Arizona tests mobile voting: www.12news.com...

I'm not so sure about mobile voting, but I think voting on a blockchain is an excellent idea. All the votes would be recorded and shared on the same distributed ledger, thus keeping everyone honest and preventing election records from being altered or destroyed.

a reply to: vkey08

You "know laws were broken"

Yes, I know laws were broken and anyone actually paying attention knows laws were broken.

How do you know this exactly?

I've stated it and posted links several times. One of the earliest examples was when Adrian Fontes, our County Recorder, declared unilaterally and arbitrarily that voters could not receive a second ballot -- as they are entitled by law -- if there is a problem with their first ballot. It was taken to court. It was taken all the way to the AZ Supreme Court. Fontes lost. Fontes brazenly and blatantly defied the law up to and including election day. The court decision explicitly stated that it was breaking the law. Fontes defied the law and the Supreme Court.

Another example: We know that the County Board of Supervisor broke the law when they deleted the data the day before the audit began. We know because the auditors found it deleted and recovered the files AND because it was admitted by AZ Supervisor Bill Gates in the U.S. House Oversight Committee hearing on livestream. They broke the law by deleting election materials prior to the law requiring all elections records be kept intact for two years.

In so doing, they also broke the law by first refusing to comply with the Court affirmed lawfully subpoenaed materials, AND by violating the subpoenas, AND by purporting that they had fulfilled the requirements of the subpoena.

In addition, generally speaking, every single state that allowed anyone except their State Legislators to change rules and procedures in violation of the laws, such as Virginia did in this last election by accepting ballots without the last four digits of the voter's SS#. It was in fact and in deed a violation of the law, as affirmed by the judge in his court ruling, but the plaintiff did not have the legal standing to bring the lawsuit so it was dismissed.

If you BELIEVE you can prove me wrong, DO IT!!! You can't. And all of the above is just the tip of the iceberg.