What we know about Trump's DEAL with the Taliban before leaving office

a reply to: Sookiechacha

IDK. It seems to me that I've shown to you that Trump's plan was to withdraw troops, before the civilians, because that's exactly what he actually did. It appears that his priorities drew down troop numbers, not civilian numbers, under his leadership. So, I think I've shown you that Trump's plan was to pull out troops before civilians. as you requested.

You didn't. What you showed was speculation of what you THINK Trump MIGHT HAVE DONE.. Wat you did show me however is that Trump did leave enough troops to take care of business until the U.S. civilians could be evacuated. You only proved my point.

I want you to realize your bias. Admit when you are wrong. If you can never do that then you will never grow in your intellectual pursuit for philosophical, sociological, political greater understanding of this world in which we all live.

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
Can you show in Trump's plan where he wanted to pull out the troops before the citizens?

Can you show me in his plan where he didn't? Or maybe just show his plan period.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Nunyabizisit

Troop and civi levels from prior years have NOTHING to do with what joe just did

I disagree. Biden didn't inherit a blank slate.

Joe just forgot where he left it.

Or maybe his dog ate it.

Unfortunately, it contained the evacuation schedule.

And difficult to remember such things after jello.

Because look, the thing, the thing is happening because ponies don't learn how to fly overnight.

It takes effort, like when I was a deep sea diver and found that, hey you look just like you're 18, come over here for a min... you smell funny. Do you identify as a boy... the thing. You all need to remember the thing.

I don't want to get in trouble for taking questions here. Which way? Your left or my left? Why didn't you say so you stupid turnip.

Applaud - all you dum a$$ idiots.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
Can you show in Trump's plan where he wanted to pull out the troops before the citizens?

Can you show me in his plan where he didn't?

Joe's plan was lost in the Whitehouse bushes somewhere.

Along with his calendar.

originally posted by: Nunyabizisit
Joe's plan was lost in the Whitehouse bushes somewhere.

We're talking about Trump's plan, try to pay attention.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Nunyabizisit
Joe's plan was lost in the Whitehouse bushes somewhere.

We're talking about Trump's plan, try to pay attention.

Joe's version was the green crayon.

Just colored over the original left by trump in the orange.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

We're talking about Trump's plan, try to pay attention.

Are you sure?


The deal with Trump was not absolute, it was conditional. And the Taliban knew Trump would use military force.

apnews.com...

Stlll, Trump spoke cautiously about the deal’s prospects for success, warning of military firepower if “bad things happen.” Pompeo similarly said the U.S. was “realistic” and “restrained,” determined to avoid endless wars.

U.S. officials made clear at the time that the agreement was conditions-based and the failure of intra-Afghan peace talks to reach a negotiated settlement would have nullified the requirement to withdraw.

One day before the Doha deal, a top aide to chief U.S. negotiator Zalmay Khalilzad said the agreement was not irreversible, and “there is no obligation for the United States to withdraw troops if the Afghan parties are unable to reach agreement or if the Taliban show bad faith” during negotiations.

Those negotiations were intended to begin within a month of the deal being signed but were delayed amid disputes between the Taliban and the Afghan government over prisoner releases. Amid fits and starts, the negotiations had not produced any outcome by the time Biden announced his withdrawal decision in April. Nor have they done so since.

Miller said it was the “right approach” and necessary to force Ghani into negotiations. He said the Doha deal was always supposed to be “phase one” of the process, with the next part being the U.S. using its leverage to have Ghani negotiate on a power-sharing deal with the Taliban.

Biden is the one that wanted to play politics, and made the drop dead date of 9/11. With no conditions. And obviously with no credible threat to the Taliban if they did not abide by agreements concerning the USA and the “official” Afghanistan government.


What happens when you have an empty suit commander and chief with staff more worried about optics. Now they are under a microscope.

originally posted by: neutronflux
Are you sure?

Yeah, I'm positive what the other poster and I were discussing.

a reply to: Alien Abduct

Wat you did show me however is that Trump did leave enough troops to take care of business until the U.S. civilians could be evacuated.

I don't think Trump thought that there would be a need to evacuate US citizens. I think he thought they'd book a commercial flight home, or to some other exotic place, like Pakistan.

I think Trump thought the transition would be peaceful enough, as long as everyone did what was promised. Unfortunately, it seems the Taliban broke their promise and attacked some Afghani installation(s), but Trump didn't want to rock the boat, I guess, because he didn't do anything about it.

When Biden decided to push back the exit date, from May 1st, to September 11, the Taliban cried fowl, said Biden violated the deal and then it was "almost anything goes".

And the Trump administration kept to the pact, reducing U.S. troop levels from about 13,000 to 2,500, even though the Taliban continued to attack Afghan government forces and welcomed al-Qaeda terrorists into the Taliban leadership.

April 15 — In response to Biden’s decision to delay full withdrawal until Sept. 11, the Taliban releases a statement that says failure to complete the withdrawal by May 1 “opens the way for [the Taliban] to take every necessary countermeasure, hence the American side will be held responsible for all future consequences.”

www.factcheck.org...

Taliban Statement

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: neutronflux
Are you sure?

Yeah, I'm positive what the other poster and I were discussing.

Then use private email, not a public forum.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

The Taliban had no negotiation power bubba. Do you really think we would need to negotiate with them? We set the fking terms buddy. And obviously biden didn't like Trump's plan to get the civilians out FIRST so biden left like 8,000 AMERICAN CITIZENS behind NOT TRUMP. So you can take your lame ass blame game and shove it up your @**

a reply to: Alien Abduct

The Taliban had no negotiation power bubba. Do you really think we would need to negotiate with them?

Weird. I wonder why Trump wanted to host the Taliban at Camp David for "talks"? I wonder how/why they got Trump to release 5,000 of their terrorist buddies from prison.

And obviously biden didn't like Trump's plan to get the civilians out FIRST so biden left like 8,000 AMERICAN CITIZENS behind NOT TRUMP.

How many did Trump get out, again?

So you can take your lame ass blame game and shove it up your @**

I don't know how you got "blame game" out of my post. There seems to plenty of it to go around.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Alien Abduct

The Taliban had no negotiation power bubba. Do you really think we would need to negotiate with them?

Weird. I wonder why Trump wanted to host the Taliban at Camp David for "talks"? I wonder how/why they got Trump to release 5,000 of their terrorist buddies from prison.

And obviously biden didn't like Trump's plan to get the civilians out FIRST so biden left like 8,000 AMERICAN CITIZENS behind NOT TRUMP.

How many did Trump get out, again?

So you can take your lame ass blame game and shove it up your @**

I don't know how you got "blame game" out of my post. There seems to plenty of it to go around.

Such desperation to defend what joe just did.

Is Trump in office now?

Is joe?

What month is it right now?

In what month did we promise to leave?

Who decided that would give trump too much credit so changed to september, and forgot to do any evacuating?


But sure, please keep defending joe.

Provides a lot of entertainment here.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: putnam6
Everybody learns at their own pace... more people than ever have that sentiment.

Sadly it's like The Tortoise and the Hare That Got Run Over By A Semi.

Nice description of the biden show.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

How many did Trump get out, again?

Did Trump remove all troops? No? So your point is moot, invalid, pointless. You can SPECULATE all day long about what President Trump would have done, might have done, probably was gonna do but it doesn't do anything to help your argument.

Posted in wrong thread.

originally posted by: Alien Abduct

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: MykeNukem

There was no 'right plan'. Unless we intended on staying for more than one generation to let the Taliban breed itself out of existence while simultaneously getting a bunch of backwards tribal numpties to accept democracy this whole thing was doomed to failure from October 2001.

Even a 10 year old would understand that if you want to leave out of the country and leave it to an evil terrorist group, the first thing you do is make sure ALL of your citizens are out first! So there may not be a perfect plan but ANY plan with just a smidgen of logic would include this!

I've seen 2 of my dogs exhibit this behavior.

They would NEVER leave a pack of angry wild dogs without first seeing that the puppies are safe.

Obviously a bit more intelligent than joe.

Maybe someone should send joe a dog trainer?

He MIGHT actually learn something.

But you know what they say about old dogs...

originally posted by: GravitySucks
There was never going to be any easy way out, no matter who did it or when or how, and the bitch of it all is that we both overreacted and knew this going in.

We could discuss this forever and get nowhere. We can point fingers, criticize, and armchair quarterback until we're blue in the face.

Or, we could have just patiently waited as each president pushed it along to the next, but what would that have bought anyone other than more political fodder and more money for the MIC?

A war on terrorism cannot target a particular country or countries. That's not how it works.

Discuss why joe left 86,000 there?

Discuss why joe left them there?

Discuss why joe ordered our troops to not go seek out and assist our citizens & allies in the evacuating?

Discuss why joe abandoned bagram in the middle of the night, without removing our modern equipment?

Or even let our allies know about all the weapons we had just left at bagram?



Yeah, pretty pointless conversations.

So why are so many here desperate to defend joe on these conversations?

a reply to: Nunyabizisit

From what I've seen the military is still operating in getting people out. Marines, Air Force, probably Army. I believe we're coming up on 40,000. And now private airlines are involved as well.

Ironically, this will mostly be old news in about a month or so, and people will have moved on to bitching about refugees.

originally posted by: GravitySucks
a reply to: Nunyabizisit

From what I've seen the military is still operating in getting people out. Marines, Air Force, probably Army. I believe we're coming up on 40,000. And now private airlines are involved as well.

Ironically, this will mostly be old news in about a month or so, and people will have moved on to bitching about refugees.

Duh.

Still not understanding why everyone is so upset?

We are upset that joe forgot to do the evacuating before it had to be done under fire.