The Biden Administration Will Recognize the Taliban as Afghanistan's Legitimate Government.

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: Nunyabizisit

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Nunyabizisit

according to global population stats there are

8,460,486 males between the age of 15-64 in Afghanistan
if you half that then there are probably about 4 million of fighting age , half that again as some may not be physically fit enough
so thats 2 million somewhat able bodied males to defend Afghanistan

so where are they all ?

Most are in the Taliban. It's what most of these people don't understand. They can't imagine they want to live under a tribal driven theocracy, but they actually do.

Nonsense.

They had multiple opportunities to simply vote for taliban and never got more than 7% of vote.

There is a huge difference between liking their historic tribal culture and wanting the taliban.

Just absurd.



Please stop repeatedly spreading this false information here.

You are so full of crap. You know damn well they couldn't vote for the Taliban. You should stop spreading the false information. Look who the hell the Taliban are. It is their people. They are home grown freedom fighters, former mujahedeen.

There were only restrictions on the first election.

There were many taliban candidates on ballots after that.



But yes, it is their own people doing this captain obvious.

Did someone claim otherwise while I was walking the dog?


Just because a small number of their people are taliban does not mean the 65 million are not worth protecting.

Or should we allow the U.S. to be taken over by Antifa, BLM, KKK, or any other democrat group?

No more absurd than your claim.

originally posted by: Nunyabizisit

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: Nunyabizisit
a reply to: themessengernevermatters


"The US force projection was holding that country together and when it was removed it fell apart"



You are getting close now.

Be careful, you might actually stumble into the truth.


Which type of 'US force projection' was recently removed causing ANA defenses to fall apart?

Come on, you know the answer.

Did we suddenly remove a bunch of tanks?

Infantry?

Recon?

Artillery?

NO.

They were were still there.

Some are at the airport this very minute



Joe renegged on promised air support.

Thats it.

Nothing else was necessary to ensure a rapid taliban victory.

Joe knew it when he made the decision.

It is WHY joe made the decision.

No other explanation will hold water.

'

And you are missing the point. If we have to give them constant Air support forever, than it is a failure and we never be able to really leave. In order to have Air suppourt you have to have some troops and bases to maintain the air support,

You do understand that airplanes can fly over borders, right?

Even over open water?

Ever hear about our carrier fleet?

Or bases in the region?

Maybe should read up on modern aeroplanes.

Sounds like your knowledge may be from 1921.

This is 2021.




Or am I lost?

Oh crap, please tell me I'm in 2021.

I'm gonna get fired if I screw up the year again.

Time travel fascists are real picky about that stuff.

What are you babbling about airplanes for? First of all if we have to use air support to prop a government the people don't really want, then it's a failure. Why should we have to waste money, which we don't have to defend a country only we want.

The only reason anyone wants to continue, is because they don't want it to be a failure. It's the same reason we stayed in vietnam to long, but eventually like the French before us we figured it out and pulled the hell out.

And in end all the air support in the world, won't get rid of the Taliban, who are a tribal religious authority. In that country like most of the middle east countries, tribal authorities have more power and say over the people than any government. That is why when those nations are left to their own devises those tribal religious authorities usually become the open government.

Frankly, you are just a partisan who wants to bash Biden and the left and you are completely ignoring the realities of those people and that nation to do it.

If you want to attack the left and Biden, good. There is plenty of stuff they are doing right here to attack them for. But, Afghanistan was clusterF that is 20 years in the making.

a reply to: SprocketUK

“Yeah, like having such poor healthcare that your infant mortality rate approaches third world levels…”

Really? Poor healthcare must be why thousands of folks from around the world travel to the U.S. every year (including from Canada and the U.K.) for surgeries.

“…yet you pay first world prices

See, that’s the thing, Mate, you pay First World prices, too. Where do ya think so much of your taxes go? Just easier to hide the pain when everyone gets soaked.

The fact is when we killed Bin Laden, the message was sent and our mission was done. All the mission creep, regimen change and nation building after was a wasted effort that cost our own people far to much and far more than it cost any of the Afghan citizens.

originally posted by: Nunyabizisit

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: Nunyabizisit

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Nunyabizisit

according to global population stats there are

8,460,486 males between the age of 15-64 in Afghanistan
if you half that then there are probably about 4 million of fighting age , half that again as some may not be physically fit enough
so thats 2 million somewhat able bodied males to defend Afghanistan

so where are they all ?

Most are in the Taliban. It's what most of these people don't understand. They can't imagine they want to live under a tribal driven theocracy, but they actually do.

Nonsense.

They had multiple opportunities to simply vote for taliban and never got more than 7% of vote.

There is a huge difference between liking their historic tribal culture and wanting the taliban.

Just absurd.



Please stop repeatedly spreading this false information here.

You are so full of crap. You know damn well they couldn't vote for the Taliban. You should stop spreading the false information. Look who the hell the Taliban are. It is their people. They are home grown freedom fighters, former mujahedeen.

There were only restrictions on the first election.

There were many taliban candidates on ballots after that.



But yes, it is their own people doing this captain obvious.

Did someone claim otherwise while I was walking the dog?


Just because a small number of their people are taliban does not mean the 65 million are not worth protecting.

Or should we allow the U.S. to be taken over by Antifa, BLM, KKK, or any other democrat group?

No more absurd than your claim.

The Taliban are not a small group or just a fragment of the population. That is just not true.

And even if it were true, the 65 million afghani's should fight for themselves. Maybe than they will respect what they have built and not what has been foisted on them by a foreign power.

I am glad you are not in charge of the government and the military. You would have us involved in endless vietnams till the end of time.

a reply to: Nunyabizisit

“ But yes, it is their own people doing this captain obvious.

Did someone claim otherwise while I was walking the dog?


Just because a small number of their people are taliban does not mean the 65 million are not worth protecting.

Or should we allow the U.S. to be taken over by Antifa, BLM, KKK, or any other democrat group?

No more absurd than your claim.”

And that comparison you made with the us was faulty. It would only be an accurate comparison, if antifa/blm took over and then the chinese came in to save us by establishing a communist government. How long do you think pro US patriot "terrorist" groups would fight the newly established government?

a reply to: themessengernevermatters

“The fact is when we killed Bin Laden, the message was sent and our mission was done. All the mission creep, regimen change and nation building after was a wasted effort that cost our own people far to much and far more than it cost any of the Afghan citizens. ”

Agree 100%!

Sadly, it reminds me of LBJ’s promise: “Iwill not send American boys over there to do what ‘Vitmese’ boys should be doing for themselves”. And I HATE LBJ—-but when yer right, yer right!

originally posted by: Thoughtcrime
a reply to: themessengernevermatters

“The fact is when we killed Bin Laden, the message was sent and our mission was done. All the mission creep, regimen change and nation building after was a wasted effort that cost our own people far to much and far more than it cost any of the Afghan citizens. ”

Agree 100%!

Sadly, it reminds me of LBJ’s promise: “Iwill not send American boys over there to do what ‘Vitmese’ boys should be doing for themselves”. And I HATE LBJ—-but when yer right, yer right!

a reply to: themessengernevermatters


The most public 'experts' put taliban numbers at 80k.

I suspect closer to 50k fighters.

They have even more trouble raising an army than tje government.


ctc.usma.edu...

The number of people in the Taliban’s fighting forces is difficult to determine precisely, but a variety of sources give an estimate of 60,000 core fighters, give or take 10-20 percent.12 b The most systematic public study of the Taliban’s size (from 2017) concluded that the group’s total manpower exceeds 200,000 individuals, which includes around 60,000 core fighters, another 90,000 members of local militias, and tens of thousands of facilitators and support elements.13 These numbers are considerable increases over official U.S. estimates of around 20,000 fighters that were provided in 201414 and illustrate the group’s ability to recruit and deploy new fighters in recent years. They also illustrate the Taliban’s ability to withstand significant casualties—estimated to be in the range of thousands per year.15 As a Taliban military commander recently commented, “We see this fight as worship. So if a brother is killed, the second brother won’t disappoint God’s wish—he’ll step into the brother’s shoes.”16

Out of 65 million.

Want to rethink your absurd claim, or shall we continue?

a reply to: Nunyabizisit

Oh believe me I am all for us doing something about it as we #ed it up for them in the first place by going in there when we shouldnt have

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters
And that comparison you made with the us was faulty. It would only be an accurate comparison, if antifa/blm took over and then the chinese came in to save us by establishing a communist government. How long do you think pro US patriot "terrorist" groups would fight the newly established government?

Bad comparison for many reasons.

Doesn't make your claim any less absurd though, does it?

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Nunyabizisit

by going in there when we shouldnt have

I don't disagree with that.

But too late now.

originally posted by: Nunyabizisit
a reply to: themessengernevermatters


The most public 'experts' put taliban numbers at 80k.

I suspect closer to 50k fighters.

They have even more trouble raising an army than tje government.


ctc.usma.edu...

The number of people in the Taliban’s fighting forces is difficult to determine precisely, but a variety of sources give an estimate of 60,000 core fighters, give or take 10-20 percent.12 b The most systematic public study of the Taliban’s size (from 2017) concluded that the group’s total manpower exceeds 200,000 individuals, which includes around 60,000 core fighters, another 90,000 members of local militias, and tens of thousands of facilitators and support elements.13 These numbers are considerable increases over official U.S. estimates of around 20,000 fighters that were provided in 201414 and illustrate the group’s ability to recruit and deploy new fighters in recent years. They also illustrate the Taliban’s ability to withstand significant casualties—estimated to be in the range of thousands per year.15 As a Taliban military commander recently commented, “We see this fight as worship. So if a brother is killed, the second brother won’t disappoint God’s wish—he’ll step into the brother’s shoes.”16

Out of 65 million.

Want to rethink your absurd claim, or shall we continue?

You think 65 million can't root out 200,000 individuals? The Taliban represents the Pashtun tribal council and the Pashtune tribe, which are far larger than that in both Afghanistan and Pakistan. All members of that tribe should be included in the numbers, because even if they don't carry guns for them they give them support.

Who ever put those numbers together are full of crap. Probably the same military strategists that say this is a winnable war. The same that said vietnam was winnable as well.

And Pakistan is the other side of the coin, you would have to regime change them to because that government supports the Taliban on their side of the border. America can't kick sand in their face and regime change them though, because that country has a nuclear shield. That is why we didn't just kick the door in when bin laden fled over the border.

originally posted by: Nunyabizisit

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Nunyabizisit

according to global population stats there are

8,460,486 males between the age of 15-64 in Afghanistan
if you half that then there are probably about 4 million of fighting age , half that again as some may not be physically fit enough
so thats 2 million somewhat able bodied males to defend Afghanistan

so where are they all ?

Good question.

I don't quite understand that one either.

For some reason raising and training an 'army' (many were more like cops) of 300k there was very challenging for last 4 administrations.

Guessing something about their culture, but don't really know.

Maybe we just aren't very good at nation building.



Does that mean it's ok to double cross them by withholding promised air support?

Or that they deserve the brutality joe just sent their way?

Or that we shouldn't try to do something about it?



If we don't, who will?

Yep. Afghanistan is fvcked because Joe Biden is our Resident. Imagine how fvcked we are.

originally posted by: Nunyabizisit

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters
And that comparison you made with the us was faulty. It would only be an accurate comparison, if antifa/blm took over and then the chinese came in to save us by establishing a communist government. How long do you think pro US patriot "terrorist" groups would fight the newly established government?

Bad comparison for many reasons.

Doesn't make your claim any less absurd though, does it?

No the only thing absurd is thinking the majority of Aghani's want that government. They don't want it enough to fight for it. Not even the troops we trained, who cut tail and ran.

a reply to: Nunyabizisit

aye its a #ing nightmare for us and them
but the most annoying thing is to see grown men
running away from their homeland
when they are able bodied and have the means to fight them

that would be akin to me running away if Scotland was invaded by the Taliban after the British army left and left us with all their gear, its unthinkable .

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: Nunyabizisit

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters
And that comparison you made with the us was faulty. It would only be an accurate comparison, if antifa/blm took over and then the chinese came in to save us by establishing a communist government. How long do you think pro US patriot "terrorist" groups would fight the newly established government?

Bad comparison for many reasons.

Doesn't make your claim any less absurd though, does it?

No the only thing absurd is thinking the majority of Aghani's want that government. They don't want it enough to fight for it. Not even the troops we trained, who cut tail and ran.

Had no choice without the promised air support.

None.

ANA had roughly the same number of hardcore fighters as Taliban.

ANA had to split theirs up into small groups to protect hundreds (maybe as many as 1000) locations 24x7.

Meaning 50-100 max to guard significant posts at any given time.

Maybe another few hundred guarding something nearby that could get there in time to help when attacked.

Meanwhile, taliban would attack each location with forces of 5-10k.

No possible way for ANA to survive without air support.

None.

You are trying to blame the people we just double crossed.

While they race home to protect their families from the raping and beheading.

Not only that Trump was negotiating with the Taliban. They always would have been returned to power in Afghanistan. So, what is the problem now?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Anyway your just a partisan. Red puppets good, Blue puppets bad. I think they are all puppets and we are never going to agree. You may think I am stupid as you have said repeatedly, I don't think you are. I just think your partisanship blinds you.

Anyway carry on.