100th Anniversary Of The Tulsa Race Massacre.

For the record, in my view, this thread would be better placed in the MudPit. Sure it is regarding a historical event, but there is no way to avoid controversial or heated dialog falling out of this thread with such a sensitive subject, and especially of the context of current political climates. My instincts tell me the author is keenly aware of that, that was part of the point. To say it differently, I suspect this was a troll thread.

Having said that, I will part ways with you all in this thread now. Best of luck on your pursuit of re-opening national and cultural wounds!

a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

To say it differently, I suspect this was a troll thread.

You want to learn nothing from history.

There is only one troll on this thread, and that is the person i am replying to right now.

a reply to: alldaylong

Every culture has a history riddled with horrors.

Not making any excuses.

Just saying that America is not immune to having horrors that it's people have committed upon others.

If reparations help, then give them whatever they want.

a reply to: DBCowboy

If reparations help, then give them whatever they want.

I really don't think that money is the answer to everyhing. It's closure that is important.

Here in The UK back in 1974, The Provisional IRA blew up two pubs in Birmingham, killing 21 and injuring nearly 200. The family and relaives for those that where killed and injured are still fighting for an Judicial Enquiry for someone or somebody to be accountable for what happened. Financial recompence has never come into the argument. Closure is what they are seeking. And i can understand that.

We are not all monsters.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

If reparations help, then give them whatever they want.

What happened back then is tragic but we shouldn't steal money from future generations that had nothing to do with it. You take 200 million from a city the size of Tulsa (400k population) budget, that going to hurt a lot services the city offers.

originally posted by: CJCrawley
Shocking. I didn't know anything about this.

Equivalent to Kristallnacht in Nazi Germany but preceding it by 17 years.

Blacks are America's Jews.

Well, except that the atrocities of Kristallnacht were planned by and perpetrated by the Hitler's government, and it happened all over the country and in Austria and Czechoslovakia as a timed, targeted attack. And as a result, tens of thousands of Jews were imprisoned in concentration camps (one of which, Dachau, I've been to when I lived in Germany).

While this act in Tulsa was horrific in what it did with immediate damage and the fact that it destroyed an entire community and made thousands homeless and lose everything, it is not, at all, "equivalent to Kristallnacht in Nazi Germany."

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
My opinion would be that people want accountability since there's been very little regarding this incident.

Hmmm...so every 100-year-old incident should still scream for accountability on its centennial anniversary? Or should we look at this terrible incident, and then watch the subsequent decades in time lapse and maybe be happy that we generally changed for the better as a nation and learn from these types of things?

To whom should the accountability be directed? Are there even any survivors of that massacre still alive to be accountable for it?

At some point, we just need to employ common sense and say, "Damn, I can't believe that something like this would happen. I will do my part not to let it happen again," and that should be enough. Shouldn't it?

a reply to: alldaylong

There is no good answer, no "right" answer.

We all bear the scars of our histories.

originally posted by: Whodathunkdatcheese
a reply to: starviego
Do you understand the difference between organised and institutional?

What are you--some kind of lawyer? Murder is murder.

It's funny. Remove a statue of a traitorous Confederate and a certain group of people tell us that we're trying to erase history. Try to actually discuss a dark moment from our history and those same people tell us how it's pointless to it up.

It's almost like those people aren't concerned about protecting history. They just want monuments that celebrate people that were on the wrong side of history.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

I'm one of those who do not think that knocking down statues (akin to book burning) is the right thing to do.

Discuss, debate, open up the conversation.

It's dark, ugly, brutal.

We need more openess, not arbitrary freedoms based on how ####ing woke you feel.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
It's funny. Remove a statue of a traitorous Confederate and a certain group of people tell us that we're trying to erase history. Try to actually discuss a dark moment from our history and those same people tell us how it's pointless to it up.

It's almost like those people aren't concerned about protecting history. They just want monuments that celebrate people that were on the wrong side of history.

I'll just leave this here...



Since you don't seem to understand the difference between erasing history and just re-writing it for a political agenda 100 years later.

Do you know when they changed the name of the Tulsa Race Riot Commission to the Tulsa Race Massacre Commission, for instance?

In late 2008.

Was that done for political purposes?

Of course it was.

Were horrible things done in the Greenwood District in 1921?

Of course they were.

Do we need to, 100 years later, use the event as a political tool to further drive a wedge between races in America?

Democrats certainly seem to think so.

While all the while attempting to erase the history of the Confederacy...

Their own history.

And if you want to virtue signal to me about how I don't understand the plight of minorities in American history, keep in mind that I'm Cherokee and my family tree was severely pruned on the Trail of Tears.

But you don't see me running around screaming for reparations and threatening to kill white people for something that happened a long time ago.

Simply because like the events at Greenwood District, what happened then does not effect my actual life at all.

Much as it doesn't effect the actual lives of any living black American now.

At all.

I'm so sick and tired of this BLM nonsense. It's making me want to hate, and I really don't want to hate anyone. "My ancestors were slaves, boo hoo!". Well, deal with it. It was part of history that most races have gone through at one point or another. In fact, some races STILL deal with it.

And guess what? Whites were also at one point slaves. In fact, the slave trade that happened in the U.S. is just a mere drop in the ocean compared to the slavery of whites.

All BLM is, is a tool to make whites look evil and suck as much money it can for those at the top of the BLM food chain. Just like that one idiot who bought million dollar homes! (And in white neighborhoods may I add!)

And what about blacks killing blacks? Cops killing blacks is again, just a drop in the ocean in comparison. "Oh but those facts are racist and not true!". Sure, cherry pick whatever you want to promote your bull..... When blacks start caring about other blacks I'll start caring. Until then, eff off.

(This isn't aimed towards anyone in this thread or ATS but BLM as a whole.)

i can imagine a different world, a less horrifically and inately racist one, where the nature of this event - the way it was organised by officials, the filmsy pretext given, the way it's been played down throughout history since - would spark some real empathy and passion in the conspiracy-minded community. We should be sitting here in sombre reflection, asking how this happened and how those responsible could possibly get away with it. We should be hanging our heads and collectively mourning.

But as the post before this one graphically demonstrates, we don't live in that world. We live in this one, where a post remembering a historical tragedy on a relevant day is too uncomfortable and too close to home and must be derided for whatever gnarled reason anyone can yammer out. Where the causes and motivations of this horror are still so present that even bringing it up makes people "want to hate".

I expected no better as i clicked on the thread title but i have to say; yikes, ats. yikes.

originally posted by: SleeperHasAwakened
There has been a "lack of accountability" for MANY "government sanctioned" issues over the years.

Interment camps come to mind.

Wow, look, another whataboutism.

"Because this, I shouldn't talk about that."

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
Hmmm...so every 100-year-old incident should still scream for accountability on its centennial anniversary? Or should we look at this terrible incident, and then watch the subsequent decades in time lapse and maybe be happy that we generally changed for the better as a nation and learn from these types of things?

Did we 'get better'? Was it ever adequately addressed? I'm sure if it were your relatives that got burnt out of business and murdered in a government-sanctioned action you'd be just as blasé.

Mankind's history includes 1000's of mass killing's. Here is a list of Genocides...

Dzungar genocide, 1750s Black War, 1825–1831 Moriori genocide, 1835-c.1860 California genocide, 1846–1873 Circassian genocide, 1860s Canadian Indian residential school system, 1831-1996 Selk'nam genocide, 1890s–1900s Herero and Namaqua genocide, 1904–1907 Late Ottoman genocides Greeks, 1914–1922 Assyrians, 1914–1924 Armenians, 1915–1923 World War II (1941–1945) The Holocaust Romani genocide Nazi crimes against the Polish nation Genocide of Serbs by the Ustashe Population transfer in the Soviet Union Genocide of Bosniaks and Croats by the Chetniks Cold War Bangladesh genocide (1971) East Timor genocide (1974–1999) Cambodian genocide (1975–1979) Guatemalan genocide (1981–1983) Anfal campaign (1986–1989) Genocides in postcolonial Africa Ikiza genocide (1972) Gukurahundi (1983-1987) Isaaq genocide (1987–1989) Rwandan genocide (1994) Massacres of Hutus during the First Congo War (1996–1997) Darfur genocide (2003–) Ethno-religious genocides in contemporary era Bosnian genocide (1995) Yazidi genocide (2014–2019) Uyghur genocide (2014–) Rohingya genocide (2017–)

"What are you gonna do?"

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
Did we 'get better'?

Yes...that is only a question if you're blind to reality.

Was it ever adequately addressed?

Directly and timely, not at all, but a century later, the way that our culture and society has changed is a reflection of how such racist furor has been generally squashed in America.

I'm sure if it were your relatives that got burnt out of business and murdered in a government-sanctioned action you'd be just as blasé.

Sorry, I don't subscribe to the appeal to emotion when I talk about these subjects. If it were my family, I would revel in the reality that we absolutely have come very far since the way that racism permeated our nation 100 years ago, and I would do everything in my power to be successful as a way to honor what they lost.

So, I will repeat the questions that I asked that you did not answer and hope that you answer them, because you are saying that people want accountability:

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
To whom should the accountability be directed? Are there even any survivors of that massacre still alive to be accountable for it?

At some point, we just need to employ common sense and say, "Damn, I can't believe that something like this would happen. I will do my part not to let it happen again," and that should be enough. Shouldn't it?

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
Yes...that is only a question if you're blind to reality.

In regards this instance? I don't think so, it was never adequately addressed.

Directly and timely, not at all, but a century later...

...a century later, still no.

Sorry, I don't subscribe to the appeal to emotion when I talk about these subjects.

Or course not, it allows people to act without empathy in circumstances like this.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Accountability?

I'm curious how you get that a hundred years on?? All involved are probably dead and gone, many probably before you and I were even born.

Don't get me wrong, this horrific event shouldn't be forgotten, whitewashed (pardon the bad pun), or ignored. Far from it. But accountability is a rather tough row to hoe.