Username Weise here at ATS was Minn. Shooter Killer

All the conspiracy theorists out there might want to watch out. If this was some kind of conspiracy, the feds might be here to see who connected the dots and got it right.


Wyred One

Those were interesting things you pointed out earlier in this thread.

Peace

Originally posted by Dr Love
All the conspiracy theorists out there might want to watch out. If this was some kind of conspiracy, the feds might be here to see who connected the dots and got it right.

Well if you run into them feds make sure you give them this message from me
please





Message to the Feds about their Boss








[edit on 23/3/2005 by drbryankkruta]

Originally posted by drbryankkruta
but do we want spammers to come in following this story , or better yet zealots that agree with this person in here doing their dirty deeds , at some point wouldnt it be better for the community to keep these things where they wont bring the wrong element in who are looking for the thrills this could generate.......I guess now i understand why advisor said this morning he thought the traffic was higher than usual could it already be being looked apon by the media and the others i mentioned....and will our new defense measure of upper tear membership approval be able to filter the unwanted out.

Uhh we do have a new membership policy remember? Not foolproof but already the amount of new members is down. Did you forget about that?

[edit on 23-3-2005 by sardion2000]

I wasn't worried about the media pointing to this site. Rather, I was pointing out that the feds were going thru the nazi site for information and I'm sure any reporter covering this kid's story will want to sift thru his posts to find clues to the madness that must have been eating him up inside. The single page of his posts will help keep them away from the rest of the boards.

Basically, I was trying to point out that the odds are high that the posts will be looked at.


I am now going back and changing everything I ever said about aliens, the gov't and anything else that might put me on a watch list.

Crakeur, the gov't loving, alien disbelieving, societal conformist.

Here is a few other places he posted:

bobturkee.com

forums.somethingawful.com

Check this last thread:

bobturkee.com...

This site seems to be tracking his online stuff a bit too:

websleuths.com...

mod edit: shortened links with bbcode

[edit on 23-3-2005 by Spectre]

This should not shock anyone of us!

The internet has been becoming the new ground for all the undesirables in the world. People who have never had friends or where to shy to be themselves in a social setting have come to this new era with light!! Chat Rooms, Forums etc. have opened the door to a world that most of only dreamed of. Now you have millions of friends or even people just talking to you for once in your life. I feel it is all of our responsibility to be observant, to remeber this when chatting or having discussions on issues that may seem a bit extreme. If your gut says someone in actuallity, is crying out for help. Help them.. things can be prevented if we all remember to be observant.

Just my thoughts!

Originally posted by ProudAmerican
there's no reason to dissect everyone's last sentence here. This just happened and emotions are running high, let people say what they have to say.

I am merely responding to what they have said.

somewhereinbetween
intended to instigate a row.

No, it is not. I see no reason to not address the issues this brings up. If people want ot have a 'mourning and condolences thread', all well and good, but since this isn't that thread, i see no reason to limit it to mourning and condolences.

I can think of no better reason to publicly defend ATS in the future than the humble gesture of laying bare Weise's sentiments, which you would rather closet,

I have absolutely no idea where you are getting this. I openly urged ATS to no cover this up, apparently it wasn't even necessary to do so as the ultimate administrators don't appear to want to cover anything up. I merely noted that reading this kids posts is saddening, and that there was no obligation on the person of Administrator Scepticoverlord to go thru the sorrow and heart wracking trouble of collecting and coallating the posts. He didn't need to do it, he did it, and I applaud that effort.

drogo
he should be remembered as a victome not as the perpitrater of a heines crime.

He killed other children and his own family members. It does not matter that he was possibly bullied or that there were problems with the system. Nothing justifies what he did. Nothing justifies any of it. What he did was wrong. If the school system was against him, and he couldn't do anythign about it nor could his parents, then he should've dealt with it and gotten past it. High School is not important, outside of getting an education while there. Kids in high school don't seem to realize that. If they're picked on in high school or don't fit it, get over it and if it can't be stopped live with it, don't go killing other people. That little bastard weise became a tormentor and a murderer. He did more damage to all the students of that school and the greater community than 'bullies' who 'picked on him'.
And, not for nothing, but you wouldn't fight back when people would beat you up, but you'd consider murdering dozens of people over them wrongly giving you bad grades? You don't see any disconnect there? If a bully beats you up, fight back with your fists. Don't be grabbing bats and 'weapons' and guns, just fight back. If you get beat up, so what, deal with it. Take the lumps like an adult, don't commit acts of murder out of powerless rage.
I think we can all feel 'sorry' for the poor kid that was not popular, but that sorrow is vastly outweighed by the revulsion at him for what he has done.

no i uderstand that but to stop things like this from occureing you have to stop the root cause that is the point

Indeed, this is a good point. However, everytime some school follows up with a 'zero tolerance' policy torwards violence, its all over the news and presented as 'pc gone made'. This kid drew skeletons wearing swatstikas marching along to 'we'll fill our boots with blood', and the school hung it up with the other kids artwork. There shouldn't have been any tolerance for that. In your case, there shouldn't have been any tolerance to people bullying you, even if that zero tolerancerequired to punish you along with them.

ground zero
Anyone who knows me knows that I am very similar

Just to be clear, as misunderstandings are rife on the internet, I am not saying that everyone who 'fits the profile' is capable of the same thing. This kid played first person shooter world war video games. Millions of people do. Undoubtedly, there are thousands of kids very similar ot him. his supposed 'gothiness' isn't a good 'warning sign', although, anyone who admires adolf hitler isn't quite right in the head (you do understand that he arranged the systematic murder of several million people no? His 'economic and poltical' 'succeses' are pretty irrelevant compared to that). So outside of the nazi obsession (and this kid was a racist nazi by the way), the only things that were 'dangerous' were the obsession with guns in combination with the poor mental health and completly destroyed family life.

An undesirable side effect of this is that it may be the spark that fires up a cry for more control of the internet.

I watched some talking heads cherry-pick Weise's posts for salient words to throw out as sound bites. There was so much feigned outrage over "How is it that there is not more control over these sites?" that it worries me.

Originally posted by jsobecky
An undesirable side effect of this is that it may be the spark that fires up a cry for more control of the internet.

I watched some talking heads cherry-pick Weise's posts for salient words to throw out as sound bites. There was so much feigned outrage over "How is it that there is not more control over these sites?" that it worries me.

Yeah I'm worried about that too, but there is an easy fix for ATS, just move the server out of the country *shrug* The USA doesn't control the entire web.

I'm having a hard time with quotes like this:

After going over the post and reading some of them from the member in question, I have to say that the sign were there but nobody was able to see them.

I suggest that as members we should for now on be more awared of each other and what we post in the boards.

Does anyone honestly think this tragic event could have been averted. Were the "signs" really there. Many people dress in black, listen to goth music and embrace different political/religious ideals. Many also go on to lead everyday normal lives. So what exactly are the signs?

This kid was intelligent. We can clearly see that through his posts here and via other websites. The resources, the ability, the insight needed to stop events such as these just aren't there. Police do not have the time to track every possible disturbed individual. We all know this will happen again (I hope I'm wrong).

I'm of course saddened by it all but I think the panic displayed here in some posts is foolish. As has been stated this is an Internet forum filled with may intriguing posts and many asinine posts. Where's the fine line between disturbed & normal and who's call is it?

brill

it couldn't have been averted by people on the internet unless he was outright boasting about his plans.

He did mention being accused of planning this and his posts seemed to imply that he was being wrongly accused. If the accusations were real, the school is at fault. I would imagine that being able to spot this kind of "snap" in someone's behavior is probably a lot harder than people think. We've all said "that kid is gonna snap" but nobody actually thinks "that kid is gonna snap, get a gun, kill his family and then randomly kill people at school before killing himself."

The picture I saw of this kid is what got me. This wasn't an angry looking Dylan Klebold (or his fried who didn't even get the posthumous fame he was looking for since I can't remember his name and don't want to). This was a pudgy, baby faced kid.

Lots of crazy people around here but didnt see this one comming.. just sad, so sad. RIP to all.

(Just read about this on paper about 8h ago, then i come home and have people sending me messages that "did you know the shooter is from ATS"..)

Regards
Fulcrum

Nygdan, do you know what it's like to be bullied? have you ever been beat up and/or humiliated? the MORE you fight, the MORE you are a target and the MORE fun you are to pick on...The only way to get out of the situation is to be passive and wait for it to go away.

And if you are being beat up by the popular people you are ALWAYS the bad guy...

I understand what he went through, Franky I share many of his believes, I would not have killed people however, but the BULLIES caused him to snap, they made him that way, bullying needs to be taken care of and the bullee must be evaluated by a shrink and treated accordingly.

It's pretty obvious Nygdan that you were with the in crowd, since you basically say they need to toughen up, that only makes things worse, no matter how strong you are, no matter how much you can proof your self, you are still unpopular and you'll be beat up and retaliated against if you beat up a popular person...

Don't judge us if you have never been there (asuming you don't)

do you know what it's like to be bullied? have you ever been beat up and/or humiliated? the MORE you fight, the MORE you are a target and the MORE fun you are to pick on...The only way to get out of the situation is to be passive and wait for it to go away.

Thats bull. I was bullied for a little while in school, until I broke the bullies nose. Never heard another word from him. Most bullies are they way they are because they think it makes them look cool by picking on someone who they think won't do anything about it. Nothing changes that belief like having your butt kicked in front of your own friends who you are trying to impress.

[edit on 23/3/05 by Skibum]

Drogo...I'm apparently part of the problem?

...I read through some of your history you've posted in this thread - cool as, can dig that...some wicked shyte has happened to you, and for that I hope those bad times in your life fade over time...and the strength and true lessons that *for now* may seem hidden in those events appear and bear the fruit that time can bring.

Small bit of history on me:

- Minority from a much lower socio-economic group
- Beaten down more times than I can remember
- Brought up surrounded by violence, Gangs, drug abuse, suffered every form of abuse...and I do mean EVERY form.
- Picked on, shat on, p1ssed on *both literally*, stood on and climbed on...waaa waa...someone play the violins.
- Recovered drug addict and ex Gang Member.
- Had numerous close family members and friends kill themselves...and with a best friend I even walked in on him at the point he pulled the trigger on himself.

Currently:

- Clean, educated, employed and employed for over 8 years working in Community Mental Health and Drug and Alcohol Rehab particularily targetting 'troubled youth'. Instead of taking ALL that anger from younger years and inflicting it on others...its channelled into actually seeing that shyte happens for a reason - perhaps the reason might be that those events instill lessons and strength AND love within us that we can pass over to others walking in the shoes we've walked in.


Do I have sympathy for this young guy? No. Sympathy stopped when he started pulling a trigger. From that moment he stepped into a new world, one that you can't come back from...before then, yes, I'd have seen him as a victim of events in his life...he was...and heart goes out to him in that respect...it sucks arse, been there and know it well. Up until the point he pulled the trigger he was not unlike the dozens if not hundreds of other kids in similar situations I've been lucky enough to work with. But...from the *click* onwards...in my mind he ceased being up for any sympathy.

Does that make me heartless?? Dude...what I do every day would suggest otherwise...

Originally posted by Klepto
I disagree.. I belive that it would be prudent for 00PS to remove his 'posts'.

No. That could be viewed as hindering an investigation.
PLUS ... someone somewhere might be able to see something
in his writings that could give clues to his state of mind. The more
information police and psychologists have ... the better they will
be able to stop the next person from doing this or things like it.

Originally posted by Skibum
Thats bull. I was bullied for a little while in school, until I broke the bullies nose. Never heard another word from him. Most bullies are they way they are because they think it makes them look cool by picking on someone who they think won't do anything about it. Nothing changes that belief like having your butt kicked in front of your own friends who you are trying to impress.

[edit on 23/3/05 by Skibum]

...Look I dont know if its any diffrent over there from here but that is not always the solution...
If he's bigger, stronger and got more people like him backing him, that isnt the course of action to take...

Originally posted by alien
Currently:

- Clean, educated, employed and employed for over 8 years working in
Community Mental Health and Drug and Alcohol Rehab particularily
targetting 'troubled youth'. Instead of taking ALL that anger from younger
years and inflicting it on others...its channelled into actually seeing that
shyte happens for a reason - perhaps the reason might be that those
events instill lessons and strength AND love within us that we can pass
over to others walking in the shoes we've walked in.

WOW! I applaud your efforts and your turn around. I applaud
your reaching out and helping others too! You are wise beyond your
years. Good karma all around!!

This fellow we are discussing was young. He didn't live long enough
to 'get it'. True, we all have to live (or die) with our decisions. I have
hope that there will be more information released ... (chemical imbalances
to go along with the bullying?) If we (society) could figure out what
the key is to folks like you 'getting it' and why folks like this fellow don't ...
we will all be better off.

Again. You have my respect and admiration. You took a tough
situation and made it one to help yourself and others.

Alien:
Whoa.

Originally posted by brill
Were the "signs" really there. Many people dress in black, listen to goth music and embrace different political/religious ideals.

But many people do not also idolize hitler, dream about having been a nazi soldier in a past life, are a obssesed with guns, have had their family life utterly destroyed, are weak, on psychiatric medication, and have attempted suicide and suffer from hallucinations and paranoia.
Its not that he wore a black trench coat all the time (honestly tho, that should be something people take notice of). Its everything taken together. ATS, certainly, can't know this sort of thing, but his family and community and psychologists certainly should've.

This kid was intelligent. We can clearly see that through his posts here and via other websites.

He is not intelligent. Or rather, he's just not a complete idiot. He was extremely gullible and suseptible to other people's statements and opinions. His posts don't cry out 'here's a really smart kid', they seem to state 'here's yet another poorly educated kid in america'.

do you know what it's like to be bullied?

Everyone has been bullied.

the MORE you fight, the MORE you are a target and the MORE fun you are to pick on

Then fight back more and when they fight back more fight back even more and get used to it.

The only way to get out of the situation is to be passive and wait for it to go away

Preposterous.

but the BULLIES caused him to snap, they made him that way, bullying needs to be taken care of and the bullee must be evaluated by a shrink and treated accordingly.

He is the one who needed a shrink, and we haven't really heard all that much about him being bullied. He really doesn't mention very much of it at all.

you are still unpopular and you'll be beat up and retaliated against if you beat up a popular person

And? You are saying you are going to be beaten up no matter what. Then beat the snot out of some of them too, just don't be a pansy and start whipping out weapons. If the school won't stop it, your parents can't put you in another school, and you can't avoid them, then fight back. What else can you do? Run away? Lay there while getting stomped?

devilwasp
If he's bigger, stronger and got more people like him backing him, that isnt the course of action to take

If you are unable to avoid a fight, then you have to fight back. If its something that constantly happens to you, then you take up boxing or something to better defend yourself. If you can avoid the fight, yes then avoid it, but you can't let people 'beat you up a little bit' so as to avoid getting into a bigger fight.

One thing to do is to call out the Bully in front of a large group of people.
Tell him if he wants to fight, bring it on, Just you and him in a fair fight.
If he backs down he will look bad, if his friends jump in, he will look bad.
Its all about the bully trying to make himself feel like a "bigger man" than you are. Most of them don't really want to fight, they just want to try to push you around and pick on you. If he knows he is going to get punched in the nose every time he messes with you , eventually he will stop, because there are very few people who enjoy getting hit in the nose.They will continue to bully you only if you allow them.

It sure as hell beats letting people pick on you until you end up with psychological disorders to the point of snapping and going on a shooting rampage.

[edit on 23/3/05 by Skibum]

[edit on 23/3/05 by Skibum]