Username Weise here at ATS was Minn. Shooter Killer

Was this kid on a selective serotonin uptake blocker, like Prozac or Seroxitin
Is there any evidence of 'away' periods in his life that can't be accurately accounted for?
This is not an ATC problem, it's where this kid is coming from and whether or not he was controlled

I just think if America would tighten its gun laws they would have a better world.

No it would just create another criminal business that would increase the murder rate more as they protected thier business of selling guns.
Look at our history.

Ban alcohol murder rate skyrockets.
Ban drugs murder rate skyrockets.

Its a fact.

[edit on 24/3/05 by Skibum]

Originally posted by Skibum

I just think if America would tighten its gun laws they would have a better world.

.

[edit on 24/3/05 by Skibum]

It would just encourage the takeover
The guns in America inhibit the state
This kind of shooting is designed to take the guns off you
Unfortunately, the last line of defence against a totalitarian government - which is what you've got

[edit on 24-3-2005 by dh]

Unfortunately, the last line of defence against a totalitarian government - which is what you've got

It may seem like it, parts of it perhaps. But over all we are quite free.
It would be much better though if it was run as the founders had intended it to be.

On the quiet, though very pacifistic in inclination, I couldn't condemn the Militias, personally
The last line of defence against these Mad Dog Killers and their controllees

Originally posted by dh
Was this kid on a selective serotonin uptake blocker, like Prozac or Seroxitin
Is there any evidence of 'away' periods in his life that can't be accurately accounted for?
This is not an ATC problem, it's where this kid is coming from and whether or not he was controlled

I have also considered this scenario.........

Originally posted by Weise
Lately I've been having some really strange dream's, they seem very realistic and filled with colour and sound's, they really are more realistic than dream's from like last month, but a few night's ago I had this dream where I saw this very evil, very creepy canine's face coming toward's me, and I heard someone say "Shoot!," either way everything went black and I could feel my whole body jerking and shaking, and while this was happening I could hear very loud and very distinct gunshot's, mostly machine gun fire... I found it very weird and woke up immediately after feeling a little disoriented...

I don't know what's up, but anyone have any idea why this kind of stuff is just happening now?...

This quote shows that he was having dreams that were so vivid as to be notable from the norm.......he 'heard' someone say "shoot." This suggests, albiet not sufficiently enough, dream manipulation........There is very little to go on but I think that there is a possibility.....

I just think if America would tighten its gun laws they would have a better world.

No it would just create another criminal business that would increase the murder rate more as they protected thier business of selling guns.
Look at our history.

Ban alcohol murder rate skyrockets.
Ban drugs murder rate skyrockets.

Its a fact.

No, i'd have a hard time believing in that.



I think Weise hit back at a problem that effects a lot of us at some point in life. The feeling of being insignificant.

Maybe he never found the right person to help him through such a traumatic time in his short life.

One of his posts he says he felt better after a talk with an elder, and to me it appeared that the influence of the world around him soon engulfed what confidence he had gained from that encounter.

I think support within society is important, no one captured his imagination so he was left with his own decisions to make, unfortunately influenced by hate generated by those people who love to tease for there own and others enjoyment and satisfaction.

There is a lot of injustice in the world, and to a young Weise on his own, it must have seemed very confusing even without drugs. Id be interested to see if there were any pharmaceutical medications involved, there was cannabis.

Weise was taking Prozac




This makes you wonder why SSRI's are still perscribed to children when the facts state that it causes unstability and even makes the depression worse. Children should never take these kinds of drugs!

Originally posted by devilwasp
you fight back...you lose because THEY jump in and get you

There was never a question about loosing.Anyone reasonably going into a fight has to accept and prepare for the possibility of getting their butt kicked, and decide that its acceptable in order to fight. Most place's I've been that sort of gang jump in has been unacceptable, and its usually 'called out' before hand that it not be done. Usually thats enough. if not, ah well. Still better than running away, especially since, in this case, you can't run away, you're either getting beat up and not fighting back or getting beat up more and fighting back. So just fight back. Eventually they'll get on someone who doesn't fight back. In fact, thats probably whats happening with this guy here.

if you fight back you have a have a greater chance of wining but also since they have a larger number of people they have a definate chance of winning

Yes, thats true. Eitherway, you're catching a beating. If its from a bunch of them, then it becomes a stomping. A difference, to be sure.I'd still wager that in most cases they'll move onto someone that can't or doesn't fight back, orif not then if you've been stomped several times it'll force an issue with the police and school administration.

I don't know anyone who's ever been better off from running away. The more succesful one's have just gotten down to work, gotten their buds or smeared vaseline on their faces (well, the girls do that) and just flat out jump right into it. And thts in 'questionable' neighbhorhoods. You're almost allways better off doing that. And as for groups jumping in? Well, you need to get some of your own buds to represent, to at least prevent the other side from jumping in. And if it becomes an all out melee? Well, better than being stomped as a lonely coward.

We have banned most guns and our gun crime is low

Get back to us when you have actual cultural diversity, a former slave population, and two completely different languages, spread out over three hundred million people. And welsh doesn't count as another language. No one is scared of roving gangs of welshmen.

kode
America is a fast paced country, which creates a tense population

You're saying living with your grand dad on a native reservation is 'faced paced' and tense?

Americans know why, they just wont except it.

If there were less guns, there'd be less violence. No doubt. Or at least the violence would be less destructive. Certainly. However, the US is based on fundamental constitutional law. That law cites, as an inalienable right, right up there with liberty, democracy, voting, etc, the ability to own guns. Hell, it demands that gun owners train in non-governmental paramilitary militias. This is pretty much unthinkable in the rest of the world. America is extremely liberal in this respect. It, literally, gives power to the people. Its just that the people, are, well, viscious, sick little pigs.

[qute]dh
This kind of shooting is designed to take the guns off you
What are you talking about? This is a mentally disturbed kid who lived in a marginalized society and was himself un-socialized. This doesn't require any design or plotter. He's a sick little weakling who fliped out and started killing people. Its got nothing to do with gun control. The kid stole his cop grand-dad's gun! How is that supposed to be an argument for gun control? No one is ever going to say 'cops can't have guns'. If anything, this demonstrates how pointless gun control is, because a nutcase is allways going to be able to get a gun somehow.

kode
and to me it appeared that the influence of the world around him soon engulfed what confidence he had gained from that encounter.

If anything its the tribal structure and elders that contributed to it. They knew that this kid had attempted suicide. They knew he was at a mental health facility. They knew that he had been suspected of plotting an attack on hitler's birthday, and they did nothing, other than to encourage his paranoid 'owl sightings' or re-enforce his fantasy world filled with bigfoot and 'great spirits'. He lived irrationally, in a rational world. That is allways going to lead to problems.

CPYKOmega
Weise was taking Prozac

He was also smoking dope 'nearly everyday' and apparently was horribly unsupervised. How many of these other kids are not taking their medication properly? From some of what he says I'd almost think he'd need anti-psychotics, not anti-depressants.

Originally posted by Ritual
Yeah the person posted as 2 alias's and left clue's. Something to the effect of a school shooting on an Indian reservation. I remember reading it and thinking it was that dood from red creek.

Also another post about someone lying about threats to get attention (No not the one in this thread, before the incident happened someone posted that).


Do you have any links to those threads??

[edit on 24-3-2005 by starviego]

Nygdan..........

That's the second time you did a play by play on multiple posts of which I was in the middle of........I'm starting to feel a bit left out.....

Originally posted by iridescent

www.thesmokinggun.com...
some of his animation

That's a really chilling animation.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--"They pegged me as a possible school shooter earlier this year, or wait, that was last month. Apparently someone was supposed to shoot up the school on 4/20, and there was alot of buzz around me, and for good reasons I guess. .... they had us pegged as "Trench Coat Mafia." .....I wasn't the one who did the threat. On "Game day" (4/20) the Feds were all around the place, watching, cop cars on nearly every corner around the school and a few large unmarked black vans sitting around, I bet they were on standby. So they WERE prepared for something to happen."
(ats.com/forum/weise posted on 13-5-2004 at 11:06 PM )

[Comment: The Feds in unmarked black vans at Redlake HS on the 5th anniversary of the Columbine massacre?? Oh yeah, somethings up!]


--"..... he stepped into the front lobby and shot and killed the unarmed security guard on duty.... The lobby has a metal detector and a video camera, which was apparently rolling." NYTimes

"Weise was captured on a school videotape, but so far it doesn't appear that any of the shootings were photographed, he (FBI SA Tabman)said."


--"......... You've got to be able to move quickly if you're running from Feds or special ops." ats.com/forum/weise


--Weise on the NWO:
Nov 4, 2004 23:39
"The Government sucks all the freedom from the people, those willing to lay down their lives for the reinstallation of stability and everything they've lost since their enslavement rise from silence. A sleeping giant is awaken. There are many events that could lead to the government sucking our freedom up. A terrorist attack occurs, the Bill of Rights and Constitution are suspended, martial law ensues. Civil unrest occurs as a result of the "every man for themselves" nation-wide order. The Government starts rounding up individuals they deem as a "threat" and hold them indefintely. Conflicts between militias and government hired-guns flare up as the people fear the US has plunged into a police state." ats.com/forum/weise



-------------

And whatever happened to the other suspect? Notice how he's quietly been dropped?

--AP 3-21-05
"Tom Lyons, chief deputy for Beltrami County, ...said a suspect was in custody, but he had no other details."

--startribune.com 3-21-05 at 6:03pm
"Lyons said the shooter was in custody. He did not identify the assailant or say how the suspect was caught. He also said authorities are investigating the possibility that there may have been more than one shooter."

--www.kstp.com/
03/21/2005 06:21:01 PM
"The shooter is in custody."

--Here's a reference that was deleted when the site was updated, but my search engine summary caught a hint:
KTVU.com 03/21/2005
"...Paul reported that the suspected shooter was in custody."

Alright, before I get flamed for being a Neo-Nazi white supremecist, I'd like to make the fact that I am a Native American clear. I do not condone the actions of the Third Reich, or any form of Genocide. My people themselves were ethnically cleansed, so I'm not going to raise doubt on the Holocaust or anything like that.

But I've never seen this discussed on the board before and I just wanted to share something I'd seen on the net before.

Hitler admirer? Hell, with what Weis had been saying through these posts, I'd probably be considered a Hitler admirer too. I am deeply against genocide but agree that Hitler WAS an absolutely brilliant man. Nearly single-handedly he conquered much of Europe- I'd like to see him duke it out with Alexander the Great.

I'm getting off topic, but I swear I have a point.

Many of you say "he seemed so normal...just a normal angst filled teen." Well, that's because he was. Though his grammar and punctuation are above the normal standards of many of America's youth, he's completely normal. Why then, would he bring a gun upon the lives of others and eventually himself?

Simple- because the rest of us would too.

These cases that get publicized make you wonder- how many others have you never heard from again? How many others are completely normal? How many others would you simply switch the channel when the newsmen start raving about their suicide, their murder, their genocide....until you recognized a quote. Until you recognize a name....a website?

yes, an angst filled teen.

yes, a poster you don't hear anything from anymore.

and maybe, the next name you read in the paper and hear on the news.

I am appauled by the media for making this child seem like a freak of nature. As the rest of you have already stated and his remarks have already proved- he's just like us.

Or maybe we're just like him.


I mourn for the children who cannot reach above the table and steal a loaf of bread for hungry eyes.

I cry for the youth who feel not the need to hunger at all.

That is Amazing! he seems so level headed

poor bleys

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by weirdo
Also when will Americans realise that having firearms so freely available is a bad thing.

The kid got the gun from a cop. You suggest american cops can't carry guns?

If there are less civillians with guns then there could be a reduction in the amount of firearms issued to standard police officers and kept to swat units.Granted there is a mentality in American society and to remove firearms from the general population would be a major problem,but if it saved only one life it would be worth it,unfortunately Americans and a large number of humans have lost the understanding of how life is so important.Yes a firearm can protect you but it is also the tool that you are protecting yourselve from.You could argue that if children or teachers in that school were carring firearms they could have defended themselves or that would have caused more killing.Guns need to be removed from society simple as that if not this will happen again and again and become accepted and that would be a bad day.

Originally posted by MemoryShock
I'm starting to feel a bit left out.....

Ha, sorry. its intentional actually. NOt sinister, just intentional. I don't buy for a moment that he was mind controlled by 'them' for some reason, or that there's /much/ of a conspiracy here, and the last few posts you've made have been to that effect. So I just don't think I have anything constructive to add to that particular aspect of the conversation.

aceofbase
That's a really chilling animation.

Its absolutely disturbing. The kid also apparenlty drew pictures of nazi skeletons marching and screaming about blood. Instead of sending him to the school psych, they hung the pic up. Unbeleivable.

Parents, pay attention to your kids! Take an interest in the stupid crap that they do! This is precisely the nightmare of apparently complete neglect! I can't imagine that that animation was something done in a single session at the computer.

scat
am deeply against genocide but agree that Hitler WAS an absolutely brilliant man

This kid also felt that the disgusting actions of race mixing had degraded the pure unspoiled blood of his Native people. He was a racist and a bigot (actually, probably more like he was a stupid and unthinking kid).

he's completely normal

He was not normal. He tried to kill himself. He was mentally disturbed. He saw things. He was probably paranoid. He fantasized about being a nazi and killing people. That is not normal, especially when its all taken together and occurs over a very long period of time.

weirdo
Granted there is a mentality in American society and to remove firearms from the general population would be a major proble

It would be illegal. Besides which, I don't think its necessarily true to say that legal gun control is going to have that much of an effect on illegally obtained and used guns. Criminals in any society seem well capable of getting guns. So certainly the police are allways going to have to be armed.

Guns need to be removed from society simple as that if not this will happen again and again and become accepted and that would be a bad day.

You cannot remove guns from american society without a constitutional ammendment. That removes the legal barrier. That doesn't remove the guns. The guns that cause most violence are illegally held guns.
I agree, there have to be smarter gun control laws, and there have to be better methods of preventing guns from being used in this manner. But you simply cannot remove the guns, even if you passed the ammendment.

One of my Friends told me that they heard ATS listed on another news show and this post was being read and talked about how the fringe of society hides on posting boards like ATS.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Weise Wrote:

"What the heck is a sin? I mean, as far as I'm concerned the very idea of such a thing is ludicrus. The idea of what constitutes a sin varys widely across the different cultures and lands, so how can you be sure which religion or faith is the one?

It seems to me that all these different belief systems that are centered around God's, and creatures of unfathomable power, are nothing more than paraniod delusions. Mankinds fear of a higher power, ever since the olden days where the primatives cowered from the lightening and thunder above, seems to be the explanation for all this debate. We wish there to be a Heaven or Hell because we like the idea of getting a dog biscuit for being a good little puppy, and the thought of the masters solid back hand striking us makes us fear damnation. We have no evidence to either of these places existance, our only "proof" to their existance is the blind faith we put in them.

If you haven't figured it out by now, I'm an atheist. I'm not some immoral arsehole who thinks he can get away with anything because there is no God, I just see no reason to put faith in something that, for all I know, isn't there. Whoever said "we're all sinners" was right, because if you think about it, in this world you can't take a dump without it being labled a sin. "

And whatever happened to the other suspect? Notice how he's quietly been dropped?

--AP 3-21-05
"Tom Lyons, chief deputy for Beltrami County, ...said a suspect was in custody, but he had no other details."

In custody, as the body was in custody of the coroner's office. Probably two things at work here:

1.No names or details are released until the next-of-kin are notified. In this case, his grandfather would be next-of-kin, and he was dead. This would slow the process down.

2.In the immediate aftermath of any shooting, etc., there is confusion among the news reports. The newshounds are scrambling for a scoop and the authorities are trying to control it and contain the scene at the same time. Look at the early (mistaken) stories from Columbine and the Russian school hostage situation for good examples of this.

weirdo
Granted there is a mentality in American society and to remove firearms from the general population would be a major problem.
It would be illegal. Besides which, I don't think its necessarily true to say that legal gun control is going to have that much of an effect on illegally obtained and used guns. Criminals in any society seem well capable of getting guns. So certainly the police are allways going to have to be armed.

It is too easy and a politicians way out to say that just because you don`t think somethink won`t work it isn`t worth trying.Every second of everyday there is an act that we can control but are held back by our own beliefs or guidance from others that change is futile.If America poored money into its police force and changed laws gun control,drug control corruption etc could be obtained.Unrealistic who knows until we try!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
Armed police in this situation were only a solution at the end not a deterent.Society let this guy down.

Guns need to be removed from society simple as that if not this will happen again and again and become accepted and that would be a bad day.

You cannot remove guns from american society without a constitutional ammendment. That removes the legal barrier. That doesn't remove the guns. The guns that cause most violence are illegally held guns.
I agree, there have to be smarter gun control laws, and there have to be better methods of preventing guns from being used in this manner. But you simply cannot remove the guns, even if you passed the ammendment.

Then you find a solution that comes down hard on gun,gang crime.You destroy the gun industry and make it govt run for the production of military use only.Sure somebody may start making illegal weapons in there garage,but as with making explosives,chemical weapons which can be manufactured at home if you wanted too,you make it as difficult as possible thus would reduce the availlability to most.Govts need to make the gang culture,crime culture less attractive to people controls on the media should be introduced and above all people need to be made aware of the problems and start to take control of there lives and that of people around them too see who needs help and get of there butts to help each other.

[edit on 25-3-2005 by weirdo]

[edit on 25-3-2005 by weirdo]