Username Weise here at ATS was Minn. Shooter Killer

I am skimming the last page, my apologies, but i'd like you guys to know a little bit more about my self...

Its amazing how much this kid fits the 'profile'. Death obsseed, weapons obssed. Paranoid. Subject to flights of fantasy. Very gullible. A loner, very low self worth and self esteem, and he directly talks about doing these kinds of things.

Anyone who knows me knows that I am very similar, I have a strange admiration of Hitler and Germany, I'm a goth, i'm not a neo-nazi and not really a racist, however I definitly discriminate like most of the world, I have lead a tortured life and I had to drop out of high-school due to severe depression, I struggle with my self every day, I have to convince my self not to hurt or kill my self nearly every day....the only thing that keeps me sane is my wife.

I understand Weise, I have been there where he has been, fortunatly the situation wasn't as severe as his, I never lost any family members to suicde, but I definitly draw TOO many paralels with Weise...

I definitly do not condone his actions, I however more than understand them, my heart is with the family of ther victims and may Weise finally rest in piece, he is also the victim of him self.

This is absolutely shocking news, and I hope this will not affect ATS too much, I will never do what he has done and if I ever have homicidal thoughts i'd post it on ATS right away...

One last thing, I remember Weise and his avatar, I remember having respect for the kid, however I never seem to have replied to any topics he was in...

Thanks for listening...errr reading...lol

Originally posted by drogo
...i think the poor kid was driven to do it by the school and authorities themselves. there is real possibility that he was the real victom in all of this. that is what my own experiance has shown me. likely he was driven to it by his own victoms. he should be remembered as a victome not as the perpitrater of a heines crime.

...allow me to call BULLSHYTE on this one...

Driven to it by his victims? By the school and authorities?

Bullshyte.

He may have been bullied...so what...make like Timberlake and cry me a river. He's no different in that respect than multitudes of others.

The only real difference is this guy was weak. He was pathetic. He chose to take the lives of others instead of just his own.

His weakness cost lives. Plain and simple.

IF he had any real strength he would have lived in spite of others...in spite of events in his life. He would have carried on and let others carry on. Instead he made the decision of the ultimate coward...take not only your own life but the lives of others in some sick 'revenge'.

I have no sympathy at all for him...I will not entertain any thoughts of "the poor guy was driven to it". No. He failed himself. Punked out. End of story.

I'm with Alien on this one. By no means is this justified. It's good that we air the facts, and our feelings on the matter. It would be a mistake though if we glorified this young man and gave some other pour soul the idea that they would finally be understood and remembered favorably if they did something like this. This young man lost the struggle to survive- he made a huge mistake and he destroyed himself. What's more, he took others with him in a very selfish and cowardly way.

Everyone gets it rough from time to time- I'd like to think I know a lot about that. I've been abused, picked on, jumped, threatened, humiliated, racially discriminated against, and very briefly locked up. I've been mad enough to kill alright- but like any decent person I know how to control myself and act rationally.
I've been in more than my share of fist fights, and really I think violence can solve problems. If this kid felt like he had to take a swing at the school bully, god go with him- I hope he at least gets a few punches in.
But to bring a weapon into the matter, to take out your aggression on family and friends, and then to turn the gun on yourself: that's three-fold cowardice, and not only that, it's just a stupid answer to the problem. What exactly did he hope to accomplish by killing his family and himself? He messed up big time. Victim or not- he was wrong. Every killer has a motive- having a motive doesn't make you a victim.

People like this guy need to find somebody to listen to them- friend, family, priest, shrink, whatever, and they need to talk to that person think through their problems with that persons support. Get therapy, get medication, take up kick boxing then whoop the bully's arse, join a cult- whatever helps you find some sort of fullness in your life and get past the crappy things that have happened to you- do it. Of all the possible answers, doing my enemy's work for him and destroying myself in one final day of misery is just completely beyond my comprehension.

This just connects us all to something that was far away and just another sad news story for the most of us...wish there was something we could have done....Any response from the top level people here at the site about this? Simon? S.O.?

Originally posted by alien

Originally posted by drogo
...i think the poor kid was driven to do it by the school and authorities themselves. there is real possibility that he was the real victom in all of this. that is what my own experiance has shown me. likely he was driven to it by his own victoms. he should be remembered as a victome not as the perpitrater of a heines crime.

...allow me to call BULLSHYTE on this one...

Driven to it by his victims? By the school and authorities?

Bullshyte.

He may have been bullied...so what...make like Timberlake and cry me a river. He's no different in that respect than multitudes of others.

The only real difference is this guy was weak. He was pathetic. He chose to take the lives of others instead of just his own.

His weakness cost lives. Plain and simple.

IF he had any real strength he would have lived in spite of others...in spite of events in his life. He would have carried on and let others carry on. Instead he made the decision of the ultimate coward...take not only your own life but the lives of others in some sick 'revenge'.

I have no sympathy at all for him...I will not entertain any thoughts of "the poor guy was driven to it". No. He failed himself. Punked out. End of story.

WEAK, PATHETIC gee those are two words i remember being called as i was beat up. also words like useless, waste of air. piece of s--t, looser ect.

YOU are aparantly part of the problem. do you not feel some pity for what he must have been through that would cause such a state of mind. perhaps you are one of those who have hurt others in the past with no regaurd.

yes i was able to stave off the need for vengance. i had two loveing parrents who helped see me through this and other circumstances. parrents who believed in me. you don't know how close i was to doing the same thing. and you can not blame it on the internet. it did not yet exist when i was in school. interestingly enough it seems that a phisics law can also apply to life, every action has an opposit but equil reaction. unless you yourself have been abused it is hard to understand what goes on inside an abused persons mind.

was he in the right to have done this? no definatly not. everytime something like this happens we tend to blame, the internet, violent vidieo games. music, and literature the person might been involved with. while mostly ignoring things that have happend to someone that may have an even greater impact. was he ostercized by his peers? given a look at his reaching out to groups such as the natzis is an indicater, most likely in such a group he finaly felt exceptance while being fed their beliefs. this is why cults find large sucsess in recruiting those who have been abused and left out by their peers. these people look for acceptance wherever they can find it. makeing them easy targets, "of course you are justified in your hate towards those who hate you, here listen to what this unjustly treated person went through and how great he was in the end".

we even have what is called the stokholm syndrone. that is those held hostage begining to see their captures as good people that have been wronged.

we have statistics that show that abused have a good chance of being abusers themselves. eg. a boy who has been molested has a good chance of molesting boys themselves. a parrent that was beaten at home have a good chance at beating their own children.

when i was young i was beaten up all the time, i had fanticys of killing those abusers in self defence, that way they could never hurt me again. i would then be safe. how many cases of abused wives are there that kill the husbands so that they could feel safe? again it is not right but it continues to happen they feel justified.

myself i was beaten up at school and i was the one to get in trubble for it, i was tageted for failure not on currant results but because i had attended a special learning class, not many of my "peers" would be my friend no matter haw hard i tried, then as a final straw i am acused of a serious offince that i did not commit, and was threatened with imprisinment for the non-existant crime. gee why would i want to kill students (who hated me and hurt me), and teachers (who had tried to destroy me)? why not kill them all they caused my problems? if they are dead they can not hurt me anymore. these are things that went through my head. it seemed justified to me. i could not get justice from those put above me so i will have to do it myself. like i said i was close to actualy doing it several times. do you know what stopped me in the end? pride, i would shame those who tryed to help and who loved me aka my parrents those two people who always tried to be fair, who were always there to support me when i was wronged.

how many people have to be killed in schools before we learn not to critisize, beat up, insault, and generaly turn our backs on those who need support? untill our children and teachers learn this and take it to heart we will see many more school shooting sprees. it also dosn't help that they have been so widely sensationalized thus turning past killeres into marters. people who finaly stood up to correct their problems becomeing heros to emulate.everytime the story breaks another will see a hero where most see a deranged criminal.

yes i feel pity for these "poor" kids, afterall i was once in their shoes. i can understand why they feel they must do what they do. even so i would not tell them to go ahead and do it. two wrongs do not make right , unfortunately when you have so much rage built up you do not see things quite so clearly. all you think of is makeing yourself safe from those you see to have caused the harm.

Alien....Climb down off that pedestal of yours for one minute please.

I think you're missing the point Drogo. You're doing an outstanding job of pointing out that the shooter had a motive, but that does not shift the blame for the shooting onto those who picked on him.

Try this one on for size: Somebody flips me off, so i pull out my .44 magnum and put a hole in him big enough to drive a truck through. It is true that him flipping me off caused me to shoot him. That does not make me the victim.

The perpetrator of a crime, by definition, is the aggressor, the criminal, the victimizer, etc. The person targeted by the crime is the victim.

This young man was the victim of typical bullying, which most of the population comes through just fine. Then he was the victimizer in a completely unjustified act of cowardice.

This is what simple bullying causes....sad.....and to think its just to make a guy feel like he actually has a bigger pair...

Originally posted by The Vagabond
I think you're missing the point Drogo. You're doing an outstanding job of pointing out that the shooter had a motive, but that does not shift the blame for the shooting onto those who picked on him.

Try this one on for size: Somebody flips me off, so i pull out my .44 magnum and put a hole in him big enough to drive a truck through. It is true that him flipping me off caused me to shoot him. That does not make me the victim.

The perpetrator of a crime, by definition, is the aggressor, the criminal, the victimizer, etc. The person targeted by the crime is the victim.

This young man was the victim of typical bullying, which most of the population comes through just fine. Then he was the victimizer in a completely unjustified act of cowardice.

no i uderstand that but to stop things like this from occureing you have to stop the root cause that is the point. untill you fix the leak in a boat how do you expect the boat not to sink? or do you just blame the guy who was suppost to bail?

i have stated repeatedly that it was wrong for him to have commited the act. you can't bring back those who died you can only hope to stop more from dieing in the future.

isn't there a saying? those who don't pay attention to history are doomed to repeat it. or something to that effect?

I haven't read this entire thread, I have been doing some research on this story.

It was more than bullying, this kid had severe mental problems.

His father committed suicide, which in itself must have been very traumatic for him, then losing his mother to a nursing home after a car accident rendered her brain damaged. That on top of being picked on. This kid was being raised by his grandfather. As much as his grandfather may have loved him he still knew it wasn't his father. You can't replace to loss of a father, especially in these circumstances where his father took his own life.

I'm not saying that he is the victim here, because he isn't, but this kid was messed up and someone should have seen some sign. The school he was in had a population of only 300, not nearly enough for a troubled kid to get lost in. My high school had about the same amount of kids and the teachers knew everyone of us. Someone should have seen a problem and reached out to this kid.

Well im sure the fact he lost both his parents was a major factor to his state of mind. Of course no-one knows how he was treated, but one could assume he was feeling a little sorry for himself, this coupled with kids apeing the unhappy, sorry-looking....even strange-looking Weise. We all know how kids can be. He was hurt by them, he moved away from them, he rebelled against them, he disliked them, he hated them, he pitied them, he killed them. Im probably not far off.
Sad, no-ones born a killer.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
I put together a page of all of his posts:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

It's rather sad to read.

Thank you skeptic, i just read through it and was saddend even more that such an intelligent individual could do something so stupid. I do not think I will ever forget this.

Any response from the top level people here at the site about this? Simon? S.O.?

See the above link...

How sad...I remember his post about the white owl. Wished he would've gotten help.

A suggestion to all, be wary of what you say about this kid. The NY Daily News has a story in today's paper about Weise's online rants at some nazi website.

www.nydailynews.com...

An excerpt:
In a posting on a Nazi Web site, 16-year-old Jeff Weise identified himself as an Ojibwa Indian and foretold the fury he unleashed Monday with his grandfather's gun on a remote reservation in northern Minnesota.


The article says they are investigating his links to the nazi site and I would imagine it is only a matter of time before they find their way to this site.

So, be careful with your posts on this topic.

The site they are talking about is called Nazi.org ................. His name on thier was NativeNazi I believe............

i agree move this to rats before the media starts pouring all over it .... shocking is however an understatement....i would go as far as speechless....wow


and to think i thought i would not have to be so close to something since the okc bombing where i voluteered....this is the second time now its been close to home .....sadly i dont think it will be the last for any of us

[edit on 23/3/2005 by drbryankkruta]

Originally posted by drbryankkruta
i agree move this to rats before the media starts pouring all over it .... shocking is however an understatement....i would go as far as speechless....wow

It was in Rats but the staff decided to move it back into the open, this should not be covered up...

Originally posted by Crakeur
The article says they are investigating his links to the nazi site and I would imagine it is only a matter of time before they find their way to this site.

I would imagine they already have found their way to ATS. This is not a NAZI or Zombie site so you wont see them printing anything on us. IMO the media's constant talk about Weise's Nazi interests is pure sensationalism.

Originally posted by sardion2000

Originally posted by drbryankkruta
i agree move this to rats before the media starts pouring all over it .... shocking is however an understatement....i would go as far as speechless....wow

It was in Rats but the staff decided to move it back into the open, this should not be covered up...

but do we want spammers to come in following this story , or better yet zealots that agree with this person in here doing their dirty deeds , at some point wouldnt it be better for the community to keep these things where they wont bring the wrong element in who are looking for the thrills this could generate.......I guess now i understand why advisor said this morning he thought the traffic was higher than usual could it already be being looked apon by the media and the others i mentioned....and will our new defense measure of upper tear membership approval be able to filter the unwanted out.