This is What's Inside the 2nd Largest Ancient Egyptian Pyramid - Khafre’s Pyramid

a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

Wouldn't a straight stick work? Lay it down and start tunneling from the end. Extend it and continue to tunnel, repeat as necessary? Seems like it would be more difficult to make a curved tunnel than a straight one.

a reply to: Phage

Maybe they used some variation of that approach; IDK.

I know that if you use a marker, though, you can't extend the stick until you've already tunneled a section of the rock equal in length to the stick. If you've messed up, when you extend the stick and realize the new passage section isn't level/plumb.....it's too late. Aside from that, the stick is basically telling you about accuracy in 1 dimension.

However....

If you take 4 straight sticks/boards and form a square:

Hold that against where you're clearing rock, and only dig in the middle of the square, you /should/ have pretty accurate tunnel height + width. How you maintain straight depth is another question, maybe they extended the box like your stick example.

Just the act of burrowing through hard stone with the tools they had and creating very stable and straight passages, to me, is an astounding feat.

ETA:
Removed my ASCII art square; doesn't display right. But you should get the idea (basically a wooden box frame)

ETA2:
I'm having recall from the Bright Insight video that the shafts into the (Bent?) pyramid were at a very specific angle. Want to say 25-35 degrees but I may be wrong. When he was ascending/descending I would've guessed the angle was larger than that (it looked steep). Anyway, to tunnel at a specific angle over many meters of distance and maintain that precise slope is another mystery to me.

originally posted by: SecretKnowledge
a reply to: Harte

I may be an idiot and ignorant but at least im not an a55hole like some

Don't be discouraged from posting. This has been a great thread.


Not all of us are experts in Egyptology and study of the antiquities. I'm completely unaware of the backdrop and history of dynastic Egypt, but the architecture just fascinates me.

Interest and questions on the subject, particularly from the uninitiated, should be nurtured, not derided or belittled.

a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

Thanks for that.

Like you said, not all of us are experts and if theres an expert in the thread im participating in, im asking questions.
Obviously whats easy for some is not for others.
I wouldn't dare flame a poster if they asked, to me, a ridiculously easy question about soccer lets say. All questions have answers to be found on the internet, but an expert's opinion is good to hear.

But, its all good. Its only the internet after all.

Interest and questions on the subject, particularly from the uninitiated, should be nurtured, not derided or belittled.

Hear hear well said.

a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

They had the same measurement tools we use today our builders would even recognize them and what they do. For example a Plumb Bob was found in the tomb of the architect Senedjem at Deir el-Medina. The board was held vertically against the wall to be tested and the Plumb Bob was attached to a wooden crossboard so that the cord, if in a vertical position, would touch a second cross board below, which was the same size as the first. This would make sure your wall is straight.

Then we have an istrument that was a square and a level basically an a frame with a plumb bob in the middle this would measure slopes.

Then we have the simple square for measuring right angles

In fact what might be a measuring rod was found in the great pyramid. The hooks would have been used to hold a plumb bob making sure your measurement is straight.

www.touregypt.net...

a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

you can't extend the stick until you've already tunneled a section of the rock equal in length to the stick.

Why not?

Anyway, to tunnel at a specific angle over many meters of distance and maintain that precise slope is another mystery to me.

A plumb bob is a mystery? I'm not trying to be mean, but you don't seem to have much of a grasp of some very simple engineering concepts.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

They had the same measurement tools we use today our builders would even recognize them and what they do. For example a Plumb Bob was found in the tomb of the architect Senedjem at Deir el-Medina. The board was held vertically against the wall to be tested and the Plumb Bob was attached to a wooden crossboard so that the cord, if in a vertical position, would touch a second cross board below, which was the same size as the first. This would make sure your wall is straight.

Then we have an istrument that was a square and a level basically an a frame with a plumb bob in the middle this would measure slopes.

Then we have the simple square for measuring right angles

In fact what might be a measuring rod was found in the great pyramid. The hooks would have been used to hold a plumb bob making sure your measurement is straight.

www.touregypt.net...

That' s a great link; thanks for posting.

a reply to: Phage

Actually you probably finished your before i did i had to find that link i was looking for. But it doesnt surprise me with both mentioned them plumb bobs have been used for thousands of years

a reply to: Phage

The interior of the Great Pyramid including the vandalism of the Cheops sarcophagus hasn't changed much since Botticelli painted it. Might even have been an inspiration much earlier around 250 BC when Archimedes was working out some of the mathematical anchoring for science. If some of this knowledge made it all the way to Mexico by 600 AD, I could understand why the conquistadors might have been confused by all the mirrors made of highly reflective mica there.

Secret voyages to far off lands by breakaway civilization types is usually considered strictly conspiracy theory though.

There seem to be a lot of these standard-format stereo cards that enjoyed several waves of popularity from the 1850s to the 1930s that are devoted to the pyramids. Certainly weren't used in the public school systems that I know of. The official story for these sarcophagi is that they were strictly used as burial place for high ranking rulers, how could anyone else think otherwise?

originally posted by: Slichter
a reply to: Phage

The interior of the Great Pyramid including the vandalism of the Cheops sarcophagus hasn't changed much since Botticelli painted it.

Botticelli didn't paint the interior of the Great Pyramid or the sarcophagus.

Might even have been an inspiration much earlier around 250 BC when Archimedes was working out some of the mathematical anchoring for science.

It was the Greeks who were teaching the Egyptians mathematics, not the other way around. Greek mathematics was well developed during a time when Egypt was wracked by wars and under the rulership of foreign rulers.

If some of this knowledge made it all the way to Mexico by 600 AD, I could understand why the conquistadors might have been confused by all the mirrors made of highly reflective mica there.

It didn't, and the conquistadores weren't confused by mica mirrors, which were inferior to their mirrors.

There seem to be a lot of these standard-format stereo cards that enjoyed several waves of popularity from the 1850s to the 1930s that are devoted to the pyramids. Certainly weren't used in the public school systems that I know of.

There wasn't a universal public school system in the US until recently; towns and counties funded their own public school systems, which taught whatever they had at hand. And the pyramids, frankly, aren't that important compared to the study of the Constitution or the study of the Bible (for them) or study of astronomy (which has no basis in pyramids) or math or biology, etc.

The official story for these sarcophagi is that they were strictly used as burial place for high ranking rulers, how could anyone else think otherwise?

This view is generally held by people who aren't aware of just how long Egypt had been making pyramids before Khufu (and after) and what's been found in them and so forth.

a reply to: Byrd

Botticelli didn't paint the interior of the Great Pyramid or the sarcophagus.

I'd better try to clarify the confusion so no one gets removed for being an off topic evil Counsellor.


Gustave Doré didn't illustrate the correct harlequin either.


weirditaly.com...

a reply to: Slichter

I think you increased my confusion not sure what the divine comedy has to do with Egyptian tombs.And no Egyptian knowledge didnt make it to Mexico. People do not understand a pyramid is a basic building when you are trying to build higher. We can see this because lots of cultures figured out stack stone and earth a pyramid is the most stable. Even in China, they decided to bury their emperors under the same kind of structures. Its like making a cake just keep adding layers on top and it will get taller. But even with this if you go too high or too steep it becomes unstable.

a reply to: dragonridr


Botticelli paints the Sarcophagus with the damaged V corner just above the cliff sort of dividing the painting.
This was painted in the 1480's so the sarcophagus was damaged before then.
The Gustave Doré imagery looks like it was copied from Botticelli as a sort of redux.
I thought Byrd might have known what source Botticelli painted from if it was not from actually visiting the kings chamber.
No problem, I can understand that you might not be able to find it in a low resolution print.
There may also be the "theory of mind" issue I discussed with Arbitrageur in another thread.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Slichter

I think you increased my confusion not sure what the divine comedy has to do with Egyptian tombs.And no Egyptian knowledge didnt make it to Mexico. People do not understand a pyramid is a basic building when you are trying to build higher. We can see this because lots of cultures figured out stack stone and earth a pyramid is the most stable. Even in China, they decided to bury their emperors under the same kind of structures. Its like making a cake just keep adding layers on top and it will get taller. But even with this if you go too high or too steep it becomes unstable.

Besides which, mesoamerican pyramids are more similar to Mesopotamian ziggurats than the Egyptian pyramids.
Seems people draw from limited information to make their speculations.

originally posted by: Slichter
a reply to: dragonridr


Botticelli paints the Sarcophagus with the damaged V corner just above the cliff sort of dividing the painting.
This was painted in the 1480's so the sarcophagus was damaged before then.
The Gustave Doré imagery looks like it was copied from Botticelli as a sort of redux.
I thought Byrd might have known what source Botticelli painted from if it was not from actually visiting the kings chamber.
No problem, I can understand that you might not be able to find it in a low resolution print.
There may also be the "theory of mind" issue I discussed with Arbitrageur in another thread.

If you would provide the title of the work, we might be able to find it and add context.
As it is, I doubt that Botticelli intended a sepulchre to be Khufu's sarcophagus.

Harte