Businesses Close To Protect Us They Need Reimbursed By Us

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Blaine91555

Well whose fault is that?

You know people on this forum have been bagging on those darn business owners as being rich for years now. Where do you think they got all that nonsense from? The very same politicians who then shut those same businesses down.

You understand the frustration then. Small business employs half the workers. My first 12 years on my own, I often had people working for me who made more than I did, and worked half the hours. During that time both my wife and I worked 70 hour weeks to make the equivalent of one income. Our story is not a rare one, it's the norm. It will take people many years to recover.

I'll make it but many won't. I already have the contracts for when this ends, but way too many people don't have a business that can do that.

You mean like meth labs right? Those can make millions and are closed to protect the public.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: TKDRL
I say no. It's not like we voted for this #. So why should we pay for the reprecussions?

"We" voted for it when we elected the power mongers into office. Could we have foreseen this? No. But it is what it is at this point....and the most recent election seems to indicate that we have a nation of scared, sheepish people willing ot surrender liberty for safety at the word of a bobbling head.

Like it or not, its your government. They made this call. They ruined these lives.

I dissent! It is time for a divorce.

I have a hard time making it through a day at a desk job due to health. Ill let you youngins have at it.

But i've felt this way since ACA tripled my healthcare without providing anything of substance to anyone else. If it at least provided affordable healthcare that people could afford copays to use, i might be able to choke it down. But it didn't. It just help book record profits for people already wealthier than I can ever imagine being.

I find it interesting that the idea of neighbor helping neighbor, in the same way we help people from other countries after a disaster is so controversial. Why is that exactly?

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan
Maybe you wouldn't be held liable at the end, but someone can still attempt to sue though, right?

Sure they can try. It may not even make it to trial. And if it does, my GL insurer would pay for it. Good luck suing my insurance company.

And if you operate a business that has guests coming in and don't have GL insurance....you were asking for trouble to begin with.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
I find it interesting that the idea of neighbor helping neighbor, in the same way we help people from other countries after a disaster is so controversial. Why is that exactly?

Because life is hard, and most of us are barely making it as it is. Maybe if we weren't already taxed into submission the idea of charity would be palatable. As it is, after paying 18% in FICA and all the other property and sales taxes...i figure the government has taken over all duty of charity.

Correct the wage stagnation and fix the over taxing of my labor and we can likely talk.

At this point, the duty to bail out business falls on the government. I say this as I fill out PPP Forgiveness for the lender we used.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: Blaine91555
If a business closes due to a government order to protect the public, the public should immediately reimburse them, and their employees out of their pockets. They should be made whole and made whole quickly.

While I agree, this is a real conundrum. Why should businesses that are not impacted have to pay for those that are?

What needs to happen is these nonsensical shutdowns to be declared 100% unConstitutional across the board. Open up everything, 100%, no nonsensical arbitrary l;imitations (ie, restaurants should be allowed to serve indoors, at full capacity, and it should be their decision on whether or not to require brain dead masks.

Why do charities exist, and why do we help anyone? To be honest, at least here, many of the businesses are helping in meaningful ways.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
I find it interesting that the idea of neighbor helping neighbor, in the same way we help people from other countries after a disaster is so controversial. Why is that exactly?

I think you're asking the wrong question.

People are already helping people because they are our friends and neighbors and live in our communities.

a reply to: Blaine91555

If a business closes due to a government order to protect the public, the public should immediately reimburse them, and their employees out of their pockets. They should be made whole and made whole quickly.

I talk to businesses all day long while working, and the damage is way worse than people realize. Many are not public facing businesses and are not visible, but they are being destroyed. All to protect other people. The idea that so many will end up destroyed with no compensation is crazy.

SNIP

Why were they destroyed? To protect everyone else, and let's be honest here, they should be immediately made whole by the people they closed to protect.

How many drug dealers, whore houses, grow ops, gambling dens, unlicensed businesses, raw milk sellers, and grubby restaurants are owed retroactive compensation, Blaine? All have been destroyed to protect the public. Bottom line here, when crappy politicians make crappy decisions, it is NOT justice to force the taxpayers to bail their asses out.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I kind of knew I'd stir up a hornets nest here

What prompted this is everyone depending on the government to use tax payer money for everything. You know, socialism. People are against it, until they are for it.

Fight the law and government? You know a mentor who led me down the path to being self-sufficient told me something I've never forgotten. Instead of fighting the system, learn how to play the game and use the system. Those who fight it, lose.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
I find it interesting that the idea of neighbor helping neighbor, in the same way we help people from other countries after a disaster is so controversial. Why is that exactly?

Is anyone in this thread ridiculing the idea of buying gift cards or otherwise PERSONALLY DECIDING to help your local small businesses? That is "neighbor helping neighbor."

The disasters we "help" people recover from aren't caused by idiot politicians. They're acts of God. COVID's economic damage is 100% the fault of knee-jerk wannabe dictators in local and state positions of authority. If folks want to "help" alleviate the damage and make communities whole again, start by dragging those fascist pricks out into the street and ensuring they never find themselves in any position of authority again.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Actually that's a real good point.

Why endorse even government help when the same people will do the same thing when another virus emerges.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Should of, could of.....

What now? Depend on government? That's what got us in this mess.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: burdman30ott6

I kind of knew I'd stir up a hornets nest here

What prompted this is everyone depending on the government to use tax payer money for everything. You know, socialism. People are against it, until they are for it.

Fight the law and government? You know a mentor who led me down the path to being self-sufficient told me something I've never forgotten. Instead of fighting the system, learn how to play the game and use the system. Those who fight it, lose.

1776... the system lost, the people won. All it takes is the belief that what you're fighting for is worth whatever means you have to utilize to reach that goal. As long as the tax payer teats are flowing with free milk to those hurting, there's enough to lose that *most* of the country is unwilling to risk it in that fight and THAT is the only thing that makes people fighting the system lose. If that teat ever stops providing milk, however, we can make great and wonderful things happen same as happened 244 years ago.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Blaine91555
I find it interesting that the idea of neighbor helping neighbor, in the same way we help people from other countries after a disaster is so controversial. Why is that exactly?

.i figure the government has taken over all duty of charity.

.

Socialism right? Is that the answer? Roll over?

originally posted by: Blaine91555
What now? Depend on government? That's what got us in this mess.

Repeal and replace the government for starters. Divide the nation into two sovereign nations... one country can embrace their socialism and hold the value of "saving people from themselves at all costs" and the other country can embrace capitalism and personal responsibility (as well as natural consequences of decisions made by each individual.)

Problem solved. You know as well as I do that this divorce idea is the only pathway forward that makes sense at this point.

originally posted by: Blaine91555

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Blaine91555
I find it interesting that the idea of neighbor helping neighbor, in the same way we help people from other countries after a disaster is so controversial. Why is that exactly?

.i figure the government has taken over all duty of charity.

.

Socialism right? Is that the answer? Roll over?

YOu are posing a question of idealism against a question of practicality.

There is no more blood in this turnip to squeeze out. The government took its fair share long before i had to chance to retain it for charity. What is deposited in my account isn't enough to meet my own basic needs right now....i took a 20k hit to my annual income. That 20k is an entire annual income for many in our country....for context.

Part of the whole PPP thing is that employers were allowed to take out the loans, and may get forgiveness, so long as they kept the same amount of people that they had prior during the 168 day period from the point the loan was deposited (for us its something like 4/15 to 9/30....about half of which I was furloughed and was paid with unemployment insurance) AND you don't reduce salaries by more than 25%.

Honestly its a messed up situation all the way around. The last person who could take it in the rear is the average joe.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

The government handouts did not put a dent in it.

I've not calculated it, but I took about a $50,000 hit and climbing. I'm guessing by the time this is over it will be over $100,000. This will be with me for years.

Idealism..maybe. Is dependency on government and socialism something we are stuck with? We are no longer the people who recovered from WW2 without government handouts. Perhaps we deserve it. We let ourselves become dependent on the government and lost all sense of community.

a reply to: Blaine91555

I cannot believe YOU still state government money....

Government only has PUBLIC money i.e. taxpayers.... Or are you suggesting a Cyprus HairCut?????

If the above and my last post does not ring a bell where does Blaine11555 believes the US government get their money from Blaine11555?

Where???????????

Nothing for VN era Vets but well let's give some wanna be capitalist funds..... so glad I left this fray!

a reply to: Blaine91555

First and foremost, the moment cities and states mandated businesses shut down, people cower in their homes, prohibited freedom of association and movement, restricted exercise of religion, and arbitrarily capped businesses' attendance numbers ALL taxation should have ceased instantly. The government handouts were intended to do one thing and one thing only, placate enough of the masses to ensure the lawmaker's offices and homes weren't swarmed by American citizens looking to apply the quickest and most sure "fix" to resuming earning a living and celebrating freedom. When someone is diagnosed with cancer, you don't leave the cancer in the body and decide to only treat and mitigate symptoms unless you have resigned yourself to the death of the body... those who made these decisions are cancer. CUT THE CANCERS FROM THE BODY, CAST THEM INTO THE FIRE, RESUME YOUR LIFE.

It is the only logical solution right now.

ETA: I don't know where you're getting the idea that "most people were not hurt financially."
www.studyfinds.org...

With government shutdowns forcing countless businesses to close and then lay off workers, one in four respondents now feel their income is not stable. Nearly two in three (63%) say they’re going paycheck-to-paycheck since March 2020.

"Most" people are absolutely hurt financially by the action of their governments using COVID as the excuse. Also, since I may as well push the issue, *why* should those of us who didn't have anything to do with the shutdown decisions, didn't consent to them, didn't agree with them, and sure as hell didn't vote for the assholes that mandated them now step in and cover those assholes' backs?