Breaking BAASS, Assessing AATIP and Doubting Thomas ‘DeLonge’

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Watching TD Barnes interview and he admits he didn't know about all that was going on at Area 51 at the time Bob Lazar claims to have worked there and he is only relying on whether or not security guards who supposedly worked there during the time Lazar was there remembered him. Just how many people would be going through security in a day, I wonder - or through those specific security guards? Does it stand to reason if Lazar was working in an area that Barnes' knew nothing about that the security guards would also not know anything about it too? How do we know Lazar entered and left the area in the same manner as the roadrunners or everyone else claiming Lazar was never there for that matter?

Where is the Senate report?

www.nevadacurrent.com...

a reply to: Arbitrageur

I thought gifting was where you set out to fool people in the pursuit of personal gain?
Fravor seems to be describing a prank..which is exactly the kind of behavior you expect from these boy scout types.

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Arbitrageur

Watching TD Barnes interview and he admits he didn't know about all that was going on at Area 51 at the time Bob Lazar claims to have worked there and he is only relying on whether or not security guards who supposedly worked there during the time Lazar was there remembered him. Just how many people would be going through security in a day, I wonder - or through those specific security guards? Does it stand to reason if Lazar was working in an area that Barnes' knew nothing about that the security guards would also not know anything about it too? How do we know Lazar entered and left the area in the same manner as the roadrunners or everyone else claiming Lazar was never there for that matter?

Where is the Senate report?

www.nevadacurrent.com...

Bob said he arrived on the Janet flights from vegas. There are passenger manifests for all of those flights and Fred Dunham checked all of them during the time Lazar claimed to have worked there, and Lazar wasn't on any of them. It doesn't matter if Lazar was then shuttled to some other area, he would have to have appeared on the passenger manifest for the janet flights, according to his own story. But I don't think Bob Lazar expected Dunham would go through all those manifests.

Interview with Fred Dunham Area 51 security guard ~ 1981-92, re: Bob Lazar and Area 51

There's an S4 at Tonopah Test Range, but it's not at Papoose, TD Barnes seems to know about that, and Fred Dunham checked the Area 51 security lists (current and historical) and Bob was not on them.. For those 2 reasons, Fred told George Knapp that Bob's story was not true.

Eric Davis said he checked his roadrunner contact who said Lazar worked at an offsite logistics facility for area 51 that required no security clearance so that would explain why Lazar was never on any Janet flight manifests. Lazar was probably doing similar tech things there like he did at Los Alamos, like radiation meter maintenance that John Lear described when he went to Los Alamos with Lazar to help him maintain the radiation meters, or "Alpha probes" as they were called.

originally posted by: Jukiodone
a reply to: Arbitrageur

I thought gifting was where you set out to fool people in the pursuit of personal gain?
Fravor seems to be describing a prank..which is exactly the kind of behavior you expect from these boy scout types.

Well I honestly don't know if Fravor is getting any money for his appearances, and usually grifters grift for personal monetary gain but it doesn't have to be monetary as long as they gain something they value personally, whether it's fame, entertainment, or one hypothesis in the case of pilots possibly stretching the truth a little, is being asked to do a patriotic service to their country by the intelligence community who wants US adversaries to think the US has reverse-engineered alien tech.

originally posted by: Jukiodone
Still fairly convinced he is telling the truth - even becoming a Lazar apologist could be explained by the fact he probably DID see something hard to explain so his eveidential requirement is lower.

Fravor's account differes from Kevin Day's account when mick West interviewed Kevin Day, and I'm leaning more toward thinking Kevin Day's account is likely more accurate, so while Fravor definitely experienced something, I believe his account is somewhat distorted.

The fact he never seems to have discussed possibilities of things like LIPF's makes me worry he doesn't know about them.

You make a good point there, but actually this gets to what Fravor may be grifting us about...maybe he has considered such a possibility and instead of admitting it, he tells us he thinks it was alien, and I'm not convinced he really believes that. I wonder if someone asked him to say he thought it was alien and he was more than happy to pull that prank on us the way he pranked the campers with his UFO hoax.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

actually this gets to what Fravor may be grifting us about...maybe he has considered such a possibility and instead of admitting it, he tells us he thinks it was alien, and I'm not convinced he really believes that. I wonder if someone asked him to say he thought it was alien and he was more than happy to pull that prank on us the way he pranked the campers with his UFO hoax.

Possible....people will do weird things for "patriotic" reasons.

Im not sure Fravor has ever said he thinks it was Alien - when pushed he just asserts no human technology could do such a thing- which again is possibly a result of that patriotic, assured, "we are the best" mindset you need to fly around in an F18.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

From my last source:

Lazar said he was fired from his job at the clandestine military base because he brought some friends into the desert near Area 51 one evening to surreptitiously watch a saucer being test flown. A Lincoln County deputy caught the group leaving the area and the deputy ratted Lazar out to the government.

I mean really how easy was it for Lazar to bring his friends onto a clandestine military base? Who were these friends and did they ever come forward to testify that Lazar was telling the truth?

originally posted by: Jukiodone
Im not sure Fravor has ever said he thinks it was Alien - when pushed he just asserts no human technology could do such a thing- which again is possibly a result of that patriotic, assured, "we are the best" mindset you need to fly around in an F18.

He said he thinks it was "not from this world", that's alien, right?

Navy pilot recalls encounter with UFO: 'I think it was not from this world'

"I can tell you, I think it was not from this world," Fravor told ABC News.

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Arbitrageur

From my last source:

Lazar said he was fired from his job at the clandestine military base because he brought some friends into the desert near Area 51 one evening to surreptitiously watch a saucer being test flown. A Lincoln County deputy caught the group leaving the area and the deputy ratted Lazar out to the government.

I mean really how easy was it for Lazar to bring his friends onto a clandestine military base? Who were these friends and did they ever come forward to testify that Lazar was telling the truth?

I could believe if they were just outside the base fence line looking in the direction Lazar knew his friends would see craft.

But onto the base itself to do the viewing is hard to believe. I’m pretty sure that all the entrances to the base would have had gate guards checking I.D.’s. You just don’t take friends that have no base I.D.’s …at night… on to the base.

👽

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Arbitrageur

From my last source:

Lazar said he was fired from his job at the clandestine military base because he brought some friends into the desert near Area 51 one evening to surreptitiously watch a saucer being test flown. A Lincoln County deputy caught the group leaving the area and the deputy ratted Lazar out to the government.

I mean really how easy was it for Lazar to bring his friends onto a clandestine military base? Who were these friends and did they ever come forward to testify that Lazar was telling the truth?

I could believe if they were just outside the base fence line looking in the direction Lazar knew his friends would see craft.

But onto the base itself to do the viewing is hard to believe. I’m pretty sure that all the entrances to the base would have had gate guards checking I.D.’s. You just don’t take friends that have no base I.D.’s …at night… on to the base.

👽

Lazar was fired for it. Why would they fire him if they were outside the base just observing the skies?

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Appreciate the detail..I didnt check *tut

"Not from this world" seems about right if he doesnt understand how it would be 1 million times easier to create a simulated object with variable mass density (including optical properties) which seemingly defies gravity- than it would be to create a physical mass which actually defies gravity.

I know you know that, I know that....but he doesn't- so he's stuck repeating some derivation of a phrase that has literally been around for as long as Jesus (AKA "Not of this world").

I dont know whether he means aliens or angels.

Until he looks at stuff like LIPF's - bearing in mind his sole determination for "mass" in the Tic Tac is based on experience of linear optical characteristics- then comments- we probably wont know.

Five years of debate, and it turns out #BigLue was right all along! Amidst all the skepticism, his truths on #UAPs disclosure stand vindicated. Here's to transcending the noise and embracing reality. #Miragmen, take note. #UAPDisclosure

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Arbitrageur

From my last source:

Lazar said he was fired from his job at the clandestine military base because he brought some friends into the desert near Area 51 one evening to surreptitiously watch a saucer being test flown. A Lincoln County deputy caught the group leaving the area and the deputy ratted Lazar out to the government.

I mean really how easy was it for Lazar to bring his friends onto a clandestine military base? Who were these friends and did they ever come forward to testify that Lazar was telling the truth?

I could believe if they were just outside the base fence line looking in the direction Lazar knew his friends would see craft.

But onto the base itself to do the viewing is hard to believe. I’m pretty sure that all the entrances to the base would have had gate guards checking I.D.’s. You just don’t take friends that have no base I.D.’s …at night… on to the base.

👽

Lazar was fired for it. Why would they fire him if they were outside the base just observing the skies?

If you think about States Secrets…..You swore to keep Secrets 7/24 365 days. Lazar brought those Secrets to the attention of uncleared personnel. He broke his oath. Lazar compromised the location of a Secret. The old adage applies….loose lips sinks ships.

Think of what that breech might have done logistically to the operation’s of the base…..i.e. revamping of some perimeter security measures, rescheduling of test flights…etc.

Perhaps also, that’s one (Lazar), of many reasons that the base eventually expanded its territory to keep looky loos away from seeing base operations.

Just what i mentioned….costs a lot of $$$$$$$

👽

a reply to: Celltype

Classic.
Hows the tenure?

a reply to: Celltype

Hardly elizanda said anything of value but you keep drinking that snake oil. Try again though if he ever provides any proof, we will be here

a reply to: quintessentone

Lazar was fired for it. Why would they fire him if they were outside the base just observing the skies?

Not sure how this turned into a Lazar debate. But according to the Lazar Timeline

He first went out to Tikaboo Valley.

March 22, 1989: First Wednesday night trip to Tikaboo Valley to view disc test. Observers were RL, Tracy Lazar, Gene Huff and John Lear, using Lear’s RV. Lear was the only one who saw the elliptical shaped light through a telescope and the total sighting lasted about 7 minutes.... (1)

Nor was he ever fired

April 7, 1989: RL’s last “work day”. Debriefed at Indian Springs Airfield. (1) RL says he was ordered to report to Indian Springs where he was interrogated about the previous night’s activities. In Good’s book RL says “I was never officially fired and my clearance was never officially taken away”, but that he refused to go back for fear of his safety. In Lindemann’s book RL says “I didn’t actually leave, they denied my clearance.” The reason given for the clearance revocation was the instability of RL’s marriage to Tracy, who RL claims was having an affair with her flight instructor....

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: quintessentone

Lazar was fired for it. Why would they fire him if they were outside the base just observing the skies?

Not sure how this turned into a Lazar debate. But according to the Lazar Timeline

He first went out to Tikaboo Valley.

March 22, 1989: First Wednesday night trip to Tikaboo Valley to view disc test. Observers were RL, Tracy Lazar, Gene Huff and John Lear, using Lear’s RV. Lear was the only one who saw the elliptical shaped light through a telescope and the total sighting lasted about 7 minutes.... (1)

Nor was he ever fired

April 7, 1989: RL’s last “work day”. Debriefed at Indian Springs Airfield. (1) RL says he was ordered to report to Indian Springs where he was interrogated about the previous night’s activities. In Good’s book RL says “I was never officially fired and my clearance was never officially taken away”, but that he refused to go back for fear of his safety. In Lindemann’s book RL says “I didn’t actually leave, they denied my clearance.” The reason given for the clearance revocation was the instability of RL’s marriage to Tracy, who RL claims was having an affair with her flight instructor....

It just seems the flood gates have opened and everything is up for scrutiny.

originally posted by: mirageman

Not sure how this turned into a Lazar debate.

Fravor now seems to believe at least some of Lazar's story

He also mentions how he was told AATIP was outside of FOIA when they contacted him for the official unofficial investigation in 2009.

a reply to: mirageman

I said in another post that theres a concetrated effort by the handlers to microwave old dung. From sneider and dulce to lazar and from serpo and doty to the old drones hoax. To rekindle the interest in things ufo for whatever reasons.

a reply to: IMSAM

Yes.

Ufology was fading by the 2010s and the Roswell Slides were an embarrassment in 2015. But ufology plays its part as a cover for the powers that be. If you want to cover up experimental aerospace platforms, then let the UFO stories spread and deny everything. But If things get too hot, then spread ridiculous stories about aliens to ward off the serious interest of journalists and the public.

It looks like someone needed a revival.

originally posted by: quintessentone
I mean really how easy was it for Lazar to bring his friends onto a clandestine military base? Who were these friends and did they ever come forward to testify that Lazar was telling the truth?

You apparently don't know the story at all, I thought most people here did. He never brought his friends on the base...they observed from a distant point outside the base.

originally posted by: mirageman
Not sure how this turned into a Lazar debate. But according to the Lazar Timeline

He first went out to Tikaboo Valley.

Right. I'm not surprised you know the details of the case.

Nor was he ever fired

Right again.

originally posted by: mirageman
It looks like someone needed a revival.

One hypothesis is TPTB wanted some background miscellaneous UFO reports as cover for sightings of black project testing so people wouldn't take reports of real tests too seriously and would write them off as "just another UFO report". But if people stopped reporting UFOs, or slowed down too much, that "cover" would be reduced, so maybe they didn't like this declining trend?


Then it bounced up a couple of times, maybe got some help from TTSA? Then TTSA fizzled out, and then Corbel reported on things like "pyramid UFO" which was just a commercial airliner out of focus filmed through IR with a triangular aperture. Then it sagged again, they need to keep finding ways to boost UFO/aliens interest, it if the above hypothesis is correct.

www.statista.com...

I think part of the problem is too many people have smart phones and now the "pics or it didn't happen" means nobody really has an excuse anymore for no pics or video and people can see that all they show are distant dots, the same thing Lazar's friends saw from Tikaboo, just a distant dot. They said it did interesting things but George Knapp's narration of one of the videos described that it didnt really do much, so like usual they never manage to capture the interesting things on video, but have lots of claims.