who say china is not copying

^^
You are obsessed with pak defence sites..

Forget them and forget Pakistan..
Paksitan is a non-issue for India..
As long as we get intimidated by them, India will never rise to greater heights..
Like seeking parity with China etc..
Forget pakistan..

chinese are never comparing india to china. its always indian comparing india to china.

forgeting our big enmey is not indian mind
here is some standard
that why i like this site unlike there where you could be banned like me if you say agianst pak.

Forget them and forget Pakistan..

chinese are never comparing india to china. its always indian comparing india to china.

where you find indian comparing himself with china i dont see any
if you can find give me a U2U[dont post here only reminder here]

Originally posted by chinawhite
chinese are never comparing india to china. its always indian comparing india to china.

Its not only indians comparing themselves to china.. lot of neutrals do it too..

And mirza.. Paksitan is no BIG enemy..
IT has NO future if it seeks to irritate India.
Its economy is non-existent..The country's at the verge of islamic revolution..
Its virtually on life-support from the US and China..
Pakistan's future lies secured only if it gives up its anti india sentiments and goes the economic way..
The country's literally being pulled apart by the army and the islamists..

The Pak Army has controlled/ruined the country for decades..
Governership/public sector companies/industries are all headed by fat retired army generals or the super rich politicians.. Its a complete incompetant mess..
India doesn't need to worry about Pakistan..
Either Pakistan pulls up its socks or it crumbles into anarchy/disarray within the next 50 years..
And the poor common citizen is suffering..

i did not want go in details of pakistan / india [becuse it is not right thread]

but dont underestimate your enmay no matter it is failed country but pak has nuclearbomb and missile with capabiltes to hit india if this weapon fall in hands of jahadi elmeant than what.


end better pre pare rather think easy.

plz end here or start new thread.

I'm not going to stop. Think before you post.

Who says India is not copying?



See? they copied the Su-30



See again? They copied the T-90



Again, they copied the Invincible class of Harrier Carriers.


If you are unsure about anything, just shut up. China has the license to build the Humvees, just like India has the licenses to build all of the above.

Grow up.

Yes, chinese Humvees are fully-licensed from GMC, though I don't like the idea, cuz to me, the Humvee is a symbol of America. But capitalism is capitalism.

My interpretation of capitalism, sell anything and everything for a associated price. Money is above all.

good hear from your flamming mouth

is not jf-17 copy of russia mig 33 .[i had pic of it similar to him]

j10 is is the copy of lavi a. of israel

is not type xx tank is based on russian tank.

list is not end here they are more


humvee is only exeption. if going bye your way

india had proper licence to produced these weapon expect the
carrier becuse it is totaly new concepact based on new indingenous
technology bette do your home work

dont angry

Originally posted by mirza2003
good hear from your flamming mouth

is not jf-17 copy of russia mig 33 .[i had pic of it similar to him]

j10 is is the copy of lavi a. of israel

is not type xx tank is based on russian tank.

list is not end here they are more


humvee is only exeption. if going bye your way

india had proper licence to produced these weapon expect the
carrier becuse it is totaly new concepact based on new indingenous
technology bette do your home work

dont angry

mirza2003 stop trying to flame thread. all the above topics have been disscused and agreed that they arent copies

the jf-17 was based on super-7
j-10 does not look like a lavi
whats a type xx tank???

give me your full list

do your homework before you post unresearched information

Originally posted by mirza2003
good hear from your flamming mouth

is not jf-17 copy of russia mig 33 .[i had pic of it similar to him]

j10 is is the copy of lavi a. of israel

is not type xx tank is based on russian tank.

list is not end here they are more


humvee is only exeption. if going bye your way

india had proper licence to produced these weapon expect the
carrier becuse it is totaly new concepact based on new indingenous
technology bette do your home work

dont angry

Don't talk like if China doesn't have the proper licenses.

Type XX tank based on Russian tanks? What Russian tank is the Type 98/88 or any new Chinese tank based on?

In the mid-1990s the MiG-33 was the original designation for the MiG-29M. In 1996 it was reported that MAPO-MiG planned to redesignate newer versions of the MiG-29M as the MiG-33, although there will be no differences in flight hardware between the two designations.

So, if the Chinese are making MiG-29s, good for them. Don't tell me India doesn't produce MiG-29s too, or shall I say copy?

J-10 is a copy of Lavi? I'm not going to answer that. If you still believe that J-10 is just a COPY of a Lavi I can't say anything else. Fact is, it is a lot more than just a Lavi. Spot the Lavi from the below pictures, if you can't, you obviously know very little about the project. The 2nd picture is the Lavi.

Here are the specs,to prove to you that the J-10 is NOT a Lavi, although it had some things in common from the Lavi :

Chengdu J-10 / F-10
Length : 15.65m
Wing Span : 8.92m
Hight : 4.80m
Wing Area : 35 Square meter
All-Up Weight : 18,400Kg
Empty Weight : 6,940Kg
Engine : Lyulka Saturn AL-31F turbofan (12,500Kg) X 1
Max Speed : 2,285Km/h (Mach 1.85)
Range : 1,850Km
Crew : 1

Lavi
Length : 14.57m
Wing Span : 8.78m
Hight : 4.78m
Wing Area : 33.05 Square meter
All-Up Weight : 19,275Kg
Empty Weight : 7,030Kg
Engine : Pratt & Whitney PW1120 Turbo Jet (Use After Burner : 9,353Kg) X 1
Max Speed : 2,285Km/h (Mach 1.85)
Service Ceiling : 15,240m
Range : 2,130Km
Crew : 2




Lavi:






Go ahead,feel free to prove me wrong.

[edit on 23/4/05 by W4rl0rD]

umm.. hate to burst your bubble but India produces the Su-30..CALLS it the Su-30
Produces the MiG29 and CALLS it the MiG 29 (Indian upgrade called Baaz)..
The Carriers have Indian chirstening names but they are british carriers, and those are CALLED Harriers as well..
The Arjun is not a blind copy just as the T-98/J-10 may not be "blind" copies..
The MiG 21s the IAF have are CALLED MiG 21s..

All hardware produced under Russian license have Russian intellectual property rights..(except for the Brahmos and T-50 which are joint projects)..

Russia HAS a BIG problem with China buying stuff of them and marketing it to other 3rd world countries (Africa/Middleast)..Its a known fact..They've brought this up with the chinese many a time in the past..

www.newsmax.com...
www.newsmax.com...

excerpts:

Recent sales by MiG of advance MiG-29 Fulcrum fighters to the African market have reinforced the view that Moscow may have created its own competition in China. The Chinese have reportedly countered by applying deep discounts on exports of the J-7 fighter to African nations.

The Chinese J-7 is an illegal copy of the Russian MiG-21. The export sales of the J-7 are considered to be an area of friction between Moscow and Beijing. The J-7 is popular with many nations that operate the venerable MiG-21 because most of the parts are interchangeable, thus reducing overall maintenance costs.

China's ability to copy products and sell them illegally on the open market is not limited to commercial manufacturing. China currently sells copies of the Russian made AK-47 rifle on the open market. China has sold nearly a million such rifles around the world without making a single payment to Mikhail Kalashnikov, the designer of the AK rifle.

Another Russian example is the Chinese made illegal copies of the MiG-21 fighter jet. In 1961 the Soviet Union licensed the manufacture of the MiG-21F jet fighter and its engine to China. China began manufacturing the MiG-21, known as the Jianjiji-7 or J-7, in early 1964. By 1989 Chinese production was running at a rate of as much as 14 aircraft per month, primarily for export. Today, the J-7 aircraft is the most widely produced Chinese fighter. Nearly 1,000 J-7 fighters have been manufactured and sold worldwide. Chinese customers include Sudan, Iraq and Pakistan.

However, China has not paid on the MiG-21 manufacturing license since the fall of the Soviet Union, claiming that the aircraft deal expired along with the former Soviet state.

Copyright law PREVENTS you to do so if the intellectual property rights are with the original producer/inventor..
Now stop this copy thread bull..
Its become really boring now..

And mirza.. you start the Pak thread if you want..
I just said you're obsessed with the pakis and you shouldn't be..
There is no MAD between India and Pak on nuclear terms even..

[edit on 23-4-2005 by Daedalus3]

Ok, I can't say thats not wrong, but for one thing, the Soviet Union never paid Mr Kalashnikov a single cent for his rifle. They were more like make the rifle or we kill you. Also, nothing modern in the Chinese army is copied, some are bought like the Su-30. Mirza was talking about the Humvee, which is just what the Chinese manufactured under license,which is 100% proper.

Also, they changed the names for a reason, for example a Russian manufactured Su-27 sold to China might have different parts compared to a Chinese made J-11. Not too much of a difference though, anyway the names were changed by the West to differenciate them, for example Type-59 from T-55s.

go china ripping off americans
hehehehehe

the j-7 that china first produced were copies of the mig-21 but later models were heavily modifed like the

J-7: Also known as Type 62. This is a prototype developed by Shenyang in 1964, with only 12 aircraft have been built. First flew on 17 January 1966.

J-7I : Initial production version by Chengdu. First flew in June 1976. Its export variant is F-7A.

J-7B: Also known as J-7II. The formal production variant in service with the PLAAF and PLA Naval Aviation Corps. First flew in 1978. Its export variant is F-7B.

J-7H: An improved variant of the J-7B with enhanced ground attack ability. First flew in March 1985.

J-7IIA: Improved variant of the J-7II introduced in March 1984, with improved avionics.

F-7M Airguard: A much improved version of the J-7IIA for the export market. Incorporated with Western technologies such as Martin-Baker ejector seat and GEC-Marconi avionics.

J-7IIM: The PLAAF version of the F-7M with similar avionics configurations.

F-7P Airbolt: Pakistani Air Force variant of F-7M with some minor improvements and modifications under PAF's requirements.

J-7C: Also known as J-7III, the basic variant based on MiG-21MF Fishbed-J.

J-7D: Also known as J-7IIIA, the improved variant.

the j-7 might have been a copy of a plane but none of the parts in it was made in russia

j-7e/g

J-7E/G Interceptor Fighter Aircraft

The Jian-7E (J-7E) is the third-generation member of the Chengdu Aircraft Industry Co (CAC)’s J-7 (Chinese copy of the MiG-21 Fishbed) family. The J-7E has a much better aerodynamic performance than its successor, the basic variant J-7B. The F-7MG/PG is the export variant fitted with Western-made avionic equipment. The J-7G is the latest variant upgraded with improved avionics. About 200~300 aircraft have been delivered to the PLA Air Force (PLAAF) and PLA Naval Air Force (PLANAF) since the early 1990s to replace the ageing J-7B.


PROGRAMME

Chengdu Aircraft Industry Co. (CAC) developed the J-7E upgraded fighter version of the J-7B (Chinese copy of the MiG-21F-13 Fishbed-C) in 1987 in response to the J-7B’s weaknesses in aerodynamic performance and avionics. The J-7E flew for the first time in May 1990 and the pre-production flight tests were completed by 1992. The aircraft received its design certificate in 1993 and the batch production began thereafter. By the late 1990s around 200~300 aircraft have been delivered to the PLAAF and PLANAF.

The wings of the J-7E were re-designed from the original delta shape to the unique double-delta shape, which in together with a more powerful WP-13F turbojet engine delivers much improved aerodynamic performance. Comparing to the J-7B, the J-7E’s seal-level climbing rate has increased from 155m/s to 195m/s; the internal fuel capacity has increased from 2,080kg to 4,165kg; the ferry range has increased from 1,500km to 2,200km; the G limit has increased from 7 to 8. The maximum instantaneous turn rate of the J-7E is 25.2 degree/s, while the maximum sustained turn rate at 1,000m altitude is 16 degree/s. According to CAC, the overall aerodynamic performance of the J-7E has increased by 43%, and the combat effectiveness has increased by 84% comparing to the J-7B.

Based on the J-7E’s airframe and powerplant, CAC also developed the F-7MG for export market. The F-7MG is fitted with GEC-Marconi Super Skyranger PD fire-control radar and electronic countermeasures (ECM) suite, as well as a Martin-Baker zero/zero ejection seat. The Pakistani Air Force (PAF) has ordered two batches (57 aircraft in total) of F-7PG fighters, a variant based on the F-7MG with specified modifications under the requirements of the PAF.

J-7G

The improved J-7G first flew in 2002 and entered service in early 2003. At least 20 aircraft had been delivered to the PLAAF by October 2004. The J-7G is based on the J-7E airframe and powerplant, but upgraded with improved avionic equipment for better all-weather combat capability. The J-7G is fitted with a new indigenous pulse-Doppler fire-control radar, which is said to be a Chinese copy of the Israeli EL/M2001 optimised for PL-8B and PL-5C short-range AAMs. A new electronic countermeasures (ECM) suite includes a Type-III all aspect radar warning receiver (RWR) and chaff/flare dispenser.

The J-7G also features a one-piece front canopy to give pilot better view in close combat. A new type of communications antenna is located hehind the canopy. Additionally the J-7G might also be fitted with hamlet-mounted sight (HMS) for close air combat. As a result of the increased avionics weight, the J-7G has to remove one of its 30mm cannons, leaving only one cannon with 60 rounds.

DESIGN

The unique double-delta-shape wing of the J-7E designed by Northwest Polytechnic University (NPU) has a slightly larger wingspan and wing area, giving the J-7E a bigger internal fuel capacity and better manoeuvrability. The original WP-7B turbojet was replaced by an improved WP-13F. The J-7E is comparable in manoeuvrability and general performance to early versions of the F-16A/B, and can make a serious challenge to any modern fighter aircraft in a 'dog fight' air combat.

WEAPONS

Fixed weapon includes two 30mm Type 30-1 cannon with 60 rounds per gun in the lower sides of the fuselage. The J-7G only has one 30mm cannon. Four under-wing stores stations can carry up to 2,000kg of disposable stores (each unit rated at 500kg), typical weapons are PL-8, and PL-9 short-range AAMs, free-fall weapons such as 500, 250, 100 and 50kg bombs, and multiple launchers each carrying twelve 55mm or seven 90mm unguided rockets. Centre fuselage station and two outboard wing stations are pumped to carry 720 litre drop tanks.

AVIONICS

Avionics configuration varies on different variants.

Fire-control: Three options are available for the fire-control radar on J-7E/F-7MG series:

(1) The GEC-Marconi Super Skyranger PD fire-control radar, X-band, detect-range of 15km, look-down, shoot-down, track up to 8 targets simultaneously.

(2) The Italian Grifo-7 fire-control radar, I-band, detect-range of 55km.

(3) Indigenous Type 226 PD fire-control radar (J-7E).

(4) New indigenous PD fire-control radar (J-7G)

If necessary, the J-7E could also easily adopt the helmet-mounted sight (HMS) for better combat effectiveness.

Flight: WL-7 radio compass; 0101 HR A2 altitude radio altimeter; LTC-2 horizon gyro; XS-6 marker beacon receiver; VOR; Distance Measure Equipment (DME); Instrument Landing System (ILS), TAKAN navigation system.

Self-defence: South-West China Research Institute of Electronic Equipment KG-8602 RWR interfaced with the South-West China Research Institute of Electronic Equipment KG-8605 internal radar noise jammer and China National Import and Export Corporation GT-1 chaff/flare dispenser, and Type-602 'Odd Rods' IFF.

Avionics upgrades include a new head-up display (HUD), radar warning receiver (RWR), air data computer, GPS and inertial navigation system (INS), and a new pulse-Doppler fire-control radar based on Russian or Israeli technology.

POWERPLANT

One Liyang (LMC) Wopen-13F (R-13-300) turbojet rated at 44.1kN dry and 66.7kN with afterburning. Nose air inlet.

Of course, the old ones like J-7, J-6, J-5, etc are indeed reverse engineered. Back then, the Chinese aircraft industry could do nothing but reverse engineer. They had no idea how to design a plane from scratch. If you know what the Cultural Revolution was about, you'll know why. Besides, Russia still be Communist back then, why not let the Commie brothers share? Sharing is what Commies are supposed to do!

In the modern age, China is rapidly moving away from copying to originality. After all, you can never surpass anyone by copying them. Examples of original designs are first appearing in the navy, e.g. the Type 052 and Catamaran stealth FACs. AFAIK no other warships in the world are even remotely similar to those two. Nobody builds ships out of facets. China is also the first country in the world to design a long-range-anti-air-anti-radiation missile, the FT-2000. The J-10 is no copy of anything, but it definitely had influences from the Lavi in basic shape, but basic shape is about it. Nothing else are similar between the two planes. They have different engines, different intakes, different avionics, different tails, different cockpits, etc. You name it.

[edit on 23-4-2005 by Taishyou]

The J-7E is comparable in manoeuvrability and general performance to early versions of the F-16A/B, and can make a serious challenge to any modern fighter aircraft in a 'dog fight' air combat.

..
Then why is the PAF so proud of the F-16 A/Bs that it has and why does it rate them as the best planes in the PAF???

it means that the general performance is the same. the f-16 has superior radar and electric gear

Originally posted by W4rl0rD
Ok, I can't say thats not wrong, but for one thing, the Soviet Union never paid Mr Kalashnikov a single cent for his rifle. They were more like make the rifle or we kill you. Also, nothing modern in the Chinese army is copied, some are bought like the Su-30. Mirza was talking about the Humvee, which is just what the Chinese manufactured under license,which is 100% proper.

read my post before posting your own

humvee is only exeption. if going bye your way

and your talking about ADS not INS Viraat.

india never had license to produce mig 29 so no question of manufactring .

i did not start the flame war here so i am not going stop this too.

[edit on 23-4-2005 by mirza2003]

you started the whole post and you keep on moving to a flame post.