who say china is not copying

i think he means using the Vertical take off tech in the yak-141.



[imgwww.anigrand.com...[/img]


The Yak-141, being the world’s first supersonic STOVL (short take-off/vertical landing) aircraft, has three engines: one lift-cruise R-79 with a thrust of 15500kg and two small-sized RD-41 of 4100kg each. The powerplant allows the plane to lift off vertically with a weight of up to 15800kg. Alternatively, the Yak-141 can perform short take-offs (60-120m) with a weight of up to 19500kg. In the latter case the combat radius increases by 1.5-2 times and patrol time in the combat zone by two times. The pilot can use afterburner even when the nozzles are deflected. The Yak-141’s integral flight-control system sets power and deflection of the nozzles so as to optimise making vertical/short take-offs and landings.
The Yak-141M was meant primarily for ground-basing. Introduction of new flight regimes, as well as new take-off/landing techniques, has entailed changes in the airframe, leading to a new design, the Yak-141M. The Yak-141 had its maiden flight some 25 years ahead of the timeframe set by foreign manufacturers for creation of such a plane. After the show in Farnborough, Yakovlev design bureau worked together with Lockheed on Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) programme. As a result, Lockheed’s final JSF proposal resembles... the Yak-141M.

[edit on 24-4-2005 by chinawhite]

Originally posted by mirza2003

Originally posted by Daedalus3
India doesn't have such a law but certain states hae parites which don't take kindly to workers flooding in and "usurping" jobs of the land..
Luckily these parties are not in power..

where you live dont think india as well as china .
just keep shut mouth if you dont know anything about topic and states of india

worker is mainstay of the industrial growth there is no law agianst there free movmeant in india you can find all type workere every where.

You jack a$$ I live in Pune, Maharashtra..
You want my cell number too?
I am talking about the Shiv sena in Maharashtra, BJP in Gujarat and the assamese agitating against the influx of bihari immigrants and taking govt jobs such as those in the railways/municipal corporations/post offices etc..

pd.cpim.org...

Also If YOU"RE indian you would know that the CPIM is an Indian commie party which thankfullly has great sway with the current govt. in power so that such things mentioned below are nipped in the bud..

excerpt from article:

The basic underlying reason for the recent unrest is the devastating policies of disinvestment and privatisation the central government is pursuing. As a result, on the one hand, lakhs of workers are losing their jobs in many places all over the country and, on the other hand, the doors of employment in central departments have been virtually closed for more than a decade.

It was at such a juncture that the railway department announced its move to fill up some vacancies in grade III and grade IV categories. But then a section of local boys subjected to physical assaults and harassment some of the candidates for these posts, hailing from Bihar, and prevented them from appearing in the examination at Maligaon, the headquarters of the North Frontier Railways. Following the above incident, and in retaliation, Assamese passengers were reportedly attacked, heckled and injured at some railway stations in Bihar. As a consequence of such violent attacks and counter attacks, the situation in some areas in both the states turned to become extremely grave.

Reportedly, the Bihar government promptly took administrative measures to tackle the situation. It transferred the district magistrates and superintendents of police of the respective areas, put behind bars a good number of those involved in attacking the Assamese rail passengers and directed the administration to suppress such elements with a heavy hand.

On the other hand, losing no time, almost simultaneously, seven extremist groups of the north east, including the ULFA and NDF, issued a threat to the Hindi speaking people living in Assam. The All Assam Students Union (AASU) gave a call for 24 hours Assam bandh, and it was supported by the Assam Gana Parishad (AGP), which had been born out of the Assam agitation of the 1980s, and by the All Bodo Students Union. Till November 20, in Assam, 27 Hindi speaking persons including some women were killed. According to reports, vengeful violence against and rampage on the houses and establishments of the non-Assamese people were carried out in an organised manner in many places of Assam. To curb this fratricidal violence, some district towns had to be brought under indefinite curfew on November 19.

Earlier, even before the chain of recent events, armed extremists of Assam had given a general directive prohibiting the showing of Hindi films in the cinema halls of Assam from November 15 this year. Prior to that, in the year 2000, Hindi speaking people were subjected to large scale violence at many places in Assam, at the hand of the ULFA extremists. In the present situation that arose after the railways examination, the Hindi speaking people are being subjected to renewed violence and threatened here and there. One cannot forget how our politicians patronised the Shiv Sena and other outfits raising the slogan of ‘sons of the soil’ in various parts of the country in the late 1960s and later. This they did when they found that the ground was slipping from under their feet. And now, from the ongoing events in Assam, it appears as if some group somewhere has been remote controlling all such happenings. What is the reality, the future will tell. Yet, now a spate of speculation is going on in various circles about whether the totality of the recent developments in Assam and Bihar is the outcome of a deep rooted conspiracy hatched in some unknown quarter.

A no less disturbing consequence of the chain of recent events are the attacks the Shiv Sena has started on the people from UP, Bihar and other northern states living in Mumbai and other parts of Maharashtra.

aapne desh ke baare me kuchh nahi aata hai tujhe, aur firang sites pe apni band baja raha hai..


[edit on 25-4-2005 by Daedalus3]

[edit on 25-4-2005 by Daedalus3]

yes china w. yak141s basic is the foundation of f-35.

Not really...Think about the Yak as an advanced Harrier with a lot better avonics and armaments. Then upgrade it with a stealthy airframe and American avonics. With that,you have the basics of a JSF.

If one studies the VTOL mechanisms on all three, is plain to see that all three are different..completely..

Originally posted by Daedalus3
If one studies the VTOL mechanisms on all three, is plain to see that all three are different..completely..

Yep, but Yakolev worked together with the Western countries in the beginning, therefore there were quite a few infulences from the Yak-141 not found on the Harrier. And obviously, if you are jumping from subsonic to supersonic with VTOL like the Russians did, you must have done quite a bit of testing, and I believe Yakolev gave some of the results to help design the JSF's VTOL ability.

[edit on 26/4/05 by W4rl0rD]

you must have done quite a bit of testing, and I believe Yakolev gave some of the results to help design the JSF's VTOL ability.

Really? Well that's is enough for me if W4rl0rD says so it must be true because all VTOL aircraft are copies of each other
Just because the JSF has VTOL capabilities its not a copy look at its avionic capabilities and airframe and you will se its not any sort of copy.

IMHO the JSF VTOL system is highly prone to problems..
Its just too complex...for a backbone fighter you need simple stuff that can be logistically supported anywhere.. Like the F-16..
I don't know about the 141 VTOL system..
Will read up on it and then post my thoughts..

Really your opinion? Is that the word of god? You from your opinion are correct and the scientists who designed, built and tested the systems are wrong?
And do you know how reliable the JSf is or are you just voicing you opinion again?

it discussion forum so evry body has own opnion so.

no hard fellings

China's copying alright. Taking US currency from US people. Some deal made by Mr Bush allowed China into the US as MFN (most favored nation), which means no duties.

Dallas

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Really your opinion? Is that the word of god? You from your opinion are correct and the scientists who designed, built and tested the systems are wrong?
And do you know how reliable the JSf is or are you just voicing you opinion again?

He said IMHO. That equals "In My Humble Opinion" so I believe he will read up on it and form his opinion. Take it easy WP.

That was meant to be more funny than serious




West Point, Out.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
That was meant to be more funny than serious

West Point, Out.

Nice try. It's pretty clear you were being serious. Stick to what you say or don't say it at all.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Really your opinion? Is that the word of god? You from your opinion are correct and the scientists who designed, built and tested the systems are wrong?
And do you know how reliable the JSf is or are you just voicing you opinion again?

hehe..
What I meant was its very complex...
Check the schematics..



Infact lockheed martin engineers themselves had a major problem with the VTOL system..Many failures occured in during testing.
Boeing was beating them in that dept. because their VTOL was much more simple and its was working well..
Boeing lost out because its carrier verssion was not prototyped and it had major air refuelling problems..

And as for W4rlord, it seems he was right when he mentioned that the lockheed martin engineers took help from YAK-141 designs..

Here's a Janes article on that:

www.janes.com...

excerpt:

Lockheed Martin's X-35 design has a trapezoidal wing planform which initially featured foreplanes, although these since deleted; STOVL version embodies a lift fan, shaft-driven by a modified F119 with a vectoring lift/cruise nozzle developed by Rolls-Royce; lift fan replaced by extra fuel in the CTOL version. Lockheed Martin also turned to Russia for technical expertise, purchasing design data from Yakovlev; and used an 86 per cent subscale model (originally developed for the CALF project and fitted with a Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-220 engine plus an Allison shaft-driven lift fan) for testing.

Originally posted by WestPoint23

you must have done quite a bit of testing, and I believe Yakolev gave some of the results to help design the JSF's VTOL ability.

Really? Well that's is enough for me if W4rl0rD says so it must be true because all VTOL aircraft are copies of each other

Just because the JSF has VTOL capabilities its not a copy look at its avionic capabilities and airframe and you will se its not any sort of copy.

well well well.. when it comes to american tech its never a copy but when you have chinese tech they always copy. how do you explain this oh mightly westpoint

marketing power did you watch documentys on discovery and n.geograpics how they show there products.

total stunt.

we are the best
our product beat whole world
nobody could match us

here other behind becuse they had good hold on media


no hard felling just my thought

[edit on 28-4-2005 by mirza2003]

Everybody copies some body in some way these days. The fact is though, in general, China is a copy-cat. And in general, it is a fact that America has great ingenuity with aircraft.

Like I said, in general. That doesn't apply to all cases, however.