Atlanta Police Chief resigns after Black Man shot

a reply to: Shamrock6



48 seconds in

"It's not a lethal weapon. It's a non lethal weapon"

there you go

a reply to: Granby

Whether it is lethal, partially lethal, maybe lethal, could be lethal, lethal only on Sundays, or never lethal is completely irrelevant.

The issue is that the taser can incapacitate the officer if it is used against them. This could lead to the suspect getting control of the actual lethal weapon which is the officer's firearm.

Several hundred people every year are beat to death. Most of you would SJWs would yell that someone is "unarmed". This is only partially true. When you are tussling with an officer, you are not unarmed. You can still gain control of an officer's weapon.

It is sad this guy got snuffed out in a Wendy's. However, it was totally self-inflicted by his own actions. What you never want to do is put an officer in a position where he has to quickly choose between his life or yours.

originally posted by: Edumakated
a reply to: Granby

Whether it is lethal, partially lethal, maybe lethal, could be lethal, lethal only on Sundays, or never lethal is completely irrelevant.

This is simply not correct
But you are allowed to have your own opinion as warped as it may be


He wasn't tussling with the cop
He was running away from him

So it is very relevant

a reply to: Shamrock6

All factors being even ... would you have an estimate of "lethality" of the taser?

I mean ... orders of magnitude ... 1%, 10% 50%?

I know there's a lot of variables, I guess a good question would be under what circumstances is taser use lethal.

a reply to: Edumakated

There were two officers.

The one who did the shooting dropped his taser and drew his sidearm.

Shamrock has kindly told us that there are two charges on a taser, and one (actually both) were used by Brooks and MISSED.

Then Brooks turned to run and was shot twice in the back.

Now, however that is adjudicated, that is what happened based on what I know.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Edumakated

There were two officers.

The one who did the shooting dropped his taser and drew his sidearm.

Shamrock has kindly told us that there are two charges on a taser, and one (actually both) were used by Brooks and MISSED.

Then Brooks turned to run and was shot twice in the back.

Now, however that is adjudicated, that is what happened based on what I know.

You assume the officers knew in the heat of the moment the taser was empty. It isn't the movies where everyone is counting shots. It appeared he ran and then turned around to fire again.

At this point, I think cops should just say F' it. Stop carrying firearms and engaging criminals at all. It isn't worth the risk with all the Monday morning quarterbacking. Just let the cards fall and the communities that want to cry about thugs getting shot can police themselves. Those communities should also continue to try to outlaw / make it difficult for law abiding citizens to arm themselves.

a reply to: Edumakated

... and you assume that they didn't know it was empty. You assume that they didn't see the tell-tale flashes that reveal an attempt to deploy. You want to diminish the fact that Atlanta Police are highly trained individuals SPECIFICALLY in the proper use of deadly force. Rolfe had just finished a series of training directed at that very issue.

So don't try to claim that I think that this situation can be judged by "the movies" because I don't and haven't said that or implied that.

OF course, take the ridiculous extremist path: if cops can't kill at will, cops should just quit.

Typical authoritarian philosophy: Obey. Do not question the police. Any actions are justified.

You've made it clear that you believe that Black Americans are more criminal than other races, although you hem-and-haw about cultural failures. I'm not sure that you can claim to speak in this matter without a fairly clear bias.

And yes, I know that you're Black.

a reply to: Gryphon66

exactly
Minimum force necessary would have been to shoot the taser he already had in his hand and aimed at the guy

We keep hearing that they can incapacitate and blah blah

If the officer was so scared why not shoot the taser t incapacitate him immediately.

So afraid he had time to take the taser that was aimed already to his other hand so he could pull the gun and use that.

Funny for like 20 pages a few have been arguing the semantics of it being non lethal or less than lethal

As soon as i show the DA saying it is non lethal then all of a sudden it does not matter.

Inept police officers
From spending 40 minutes talking to him before the struggle started to the both of them not being able to control 1 man to shooting a man who was running away.

originally posted by: Edumakated
It isn't the movies

This is the single biggest thing folks need to get through their head in order to understand these incidents.

The naivety is astounding.

a reply to: Granby

Several different sources I've read point to horrible failure rates nationally with the taser up to 55%. And it's gotten worse in recent years because the manufacturer has responded to wrongful death suits by depowering the devices.

Cops know this.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Edumakated

... and you assume that they didn't know it was empty. You assume that they didn't see the tell-tale flashes that reveal an attempt to deploy. You want to diminish the fact that Atlanta Police are highly trained individuals SPECIFICALLY in the proper use of deadly force. Rolfe had just finished a series of training directed at that very issue.

So don't try to claim that I think that this situation can be judged by "the movies" because I don't and haven't said that or implied that.

OF course, take the ridiculous extremist path: if cops can't kill at will, cops should just quit.

Typical authoritarian philosophy: Obey. Do not question the police. Any actions are justified.

You've made it clear that you believe that Black Americans are more criminal than other races, although you hem-and-haw about cultural failures. I'm not sure that you can claim to speak in this matter without a fairly clear bias.

And yes, I know that you're Black.

No, I just realize that in the heat of the moment, life or death decisions get made in a split second. All the officers know is the guy went from zero to 100 real quick, roughed them up, grab an officers tazer and attempted to use it against them.

I didn't say don't question police actions. The problem is now that everything is on video everyone wants to play quarterback and evaluate how they would have acted in that situation.

Like I said, we should just disarm cops and stop engaging criminals. This way no one can be judged for the split second actions. Let the riff raff do whatever they want. I suspect we will continue to see further urban decay and you lefties can lie in the bed you made.

Yes, the black community does commit higher rates of crime. That isn't my belief, that is what the facts say. I cannot help you aren't able to do basic math.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Edumakated
It isn't the movies

This is the single biggest thing folks need to get through their head in order to understand these incidents.

The naivety is astounding.

Cops are highly trained individuals and are trained specifically in crisis situations and the use of deadly force.

This argument fails on that fact.

originally posted by: Granby
a reply to: Gryphon66

exactly
Minimum force necessary would have been to shoot the taser he already had in his hand and aimed at the guy

We keep hearing that they can incapacitate and blah blah

If the officer was so scared why not shoot the taser t incapacitate him immediately.

So afraid he had time to take the taser that was aimed already to his other hand so he could pull the gun and use that.

Funny for like 20 pages a few have been arguing the semantics of it being non lethal or less than lethal

As soon as i show the DA saying it is non lethal then all of a sudden it does not matter.

Inept police officers
From spending 40 minutes talking to him before the struggle started to the both of them not being able to control 1 man to shooting a man who was running away.

No what it shows is that even someone who seems harmless can go to a threat in a split second...

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Edumakated
It isn't the movies

This is the single biggest thing folks need to get through their head in order to understand these incidents.

The naivety is astounding.

Cops are highly trained individuals and are trained specifically in crisis situations and the use of deadly force.

This argument fails on that fact.

Training is not the real world... when the sh*t goes down it is entirely different. Higher adrenaline. Nothing is exactly like the manual.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Edumakated
It isn't the movies

This is the single biggest thing folks need to get through their head in order to understand these incidents.

The naivety is astounding.

Exactly. They could have just shot him in the shoulder while diving over the car with the gun aimed sideways from 50 yards out.

a reply to: Edumakated

ok man
obviously your mind is made up

dude switched from the taser to the pistol and shot a man in the back

facts

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Edumakated
It isn't the movies

This is the single biggest thing folks need to get through their head in order to understand these incidents.

The naivety is astounding.

Cops are highly trained individuals and are trained specifically in crisis situations and the use of deadly force.

This argument fails on that fact.

Training is not the real world... when the sh*t goes down it is entirely different. Higher adrenaline. Nothing is exactly like the manual.

That would make sense if they had popped him when they were fighting

They didn't

popped him when he was running the opposite direction

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Edumakated
It isn't the movies

This is the single biggest thing folks need to get through their head in order to understand these incidents.

The naivety is astounding.

Cops are highly trained individuals and are trained specifically in crisis situations and the use of deadly force.

This argument fails on that fact.

Training is not the real world... when the sh*t goes down it is entirely different. Higher adrenaline. Nothing is exactly like the manual.

So training is useless then?

BS. Part of the justification for giving peace officers the right to use lethal force and qualified immunity is that they are highly trained experts. You can't justify poor judgement because these officers were placed in a situation that they exist to control and resolve.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Edumakated
It isn't the movies

This is the single biggest thing folks need to get through their head in order to understand these incidents.

The naivety is astounding.

Cops are highly trained individuals and are trained specifically in crisis situations and the use of deadly force.

This argument fails on that fact.

Training is not the real world... when the sh*t goes down it is entirely different. Higher adrenaline. Nothing is exactly like the manual.

So training is useless then?

BS. Part of the justification for giving peace officers the right to use lethal force and qualified immunity is that they are highly trained experts. You can't justify poor judgement because these officers were placed in a situation that they exist to control and resolve.

Not it isn't useless but it also doesn't reflect the real world. Officers have to deal with fluid situations that cannot be replicated 100% in a training manual.

While it not entirely related, the scene from Sully explains how the real world is different. THE HUMAN FACTOR.

a reply to: Gryphon66

apparently training to control someone is useless.
I brought it up.

Got the lecture on how it is not like the movies.

That is exactly why these cops should be trained in control.
Single biggest thing IMO

No reason a pair of cops cannot control one man.
That should be unacceptable.

These cops should be highly trained but they are not. This is a problem