Atlanta Police Chief resigns after Black Man shot

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I only told Redneck about Tuckers' problems because he kinda asked what was going on with him. I have caught a few clip segments of Tucker that he made good points but in most of them, he is just as skewed as the far left. He and Maddow are the same type of annoying in my book just on different spectrums. They can both make good points but I don't like their smarmy smug attitudes.

The cancel culture sucks, but there is nothing I can do about it. Except on some small occasions like when they went after the Joker movie. I went to see it and before leaving the theater having seen a good movie I bought another ticket to it. It was a vote with my wallet.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Well, honestly, I haven't understood why the majority of good cops don't regularly bring down "guild law" on the bad ones. Sadly, the exceptions in any profession seem to come from the fact of our overly litigious society.

If a bad cop will kill a random person do you think they do not have the pull to kill another cop? A disgruntled one to boot? I have friends and family in Law Enforcement and it is not easy. At all. Those who speak out usually lose their jobs and in some cases they are taken care of and it is covered up. It is really f'd up as far as corruption goes. If you had a job that you needed and had kids would you just 'speak up'? Think before you answer...

a reply to: matafuchs

So, what you're saying would seem to suggest that there are more bad cops than good ones, or that the bad ones are in positions of power and authority.

Or do I misread?

a reply to: Gryphon66

Of course there are bad ones are in power. That is where the change needs to come from. Top down. There is a reason they get there and stay there. It is not about more training in the academy. When a person joins they are who they are.

This is also why it is so important to vote in ALL local elections and not just the POTUS every 4 years. That is how you remove a bad sheriff or mayor who is controlling the police.

I know bad cops. I know good cops. They all know how I feel also. Some change...some never do.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: Gryphon66

Of course there are bad ones are in power. That is where the change needs to come from. Top down. There is a reason they get there and stay there. It is not about more training in the academy. When a person joins they are who they are.

This is also why it is so important to vote in ALL local elections and not just the POTUS every 4 years. That is how you remove a bad sheriff or mayor who is controlling the police.

I know bad cops. I know good cops. They all know how I feel also. Some change...some never do.

I know we disagree on several points, but I have the greatest respect for your statements there.

How much are the Police Unions at fault in keeping the bad cops in place/power?

While everyone focuses on the side show, the main problem of black on black crime continues and is ignored.

twitter.com...

originally posted by: carewemust
While everyone focuses on the side show, the main problem of black on black crime continues and is ignored.

twitter.com...

No, Black on Black crime is not ignored in any shape form or fashion. It's an absurd claim.

Continually responding to concerns about the execution of Black men by cop with that crap are actually very telling.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: carewemust
While everyone focuses on the side show, the main problem of black on black crime continues and is ignored.

twitter.com...

No, Black on Black crime is not ignored in any shape form or fashion. It's an absurd claim.

Continually responding to concerns about the execution of Black men by cop with that crap are actually very telling.

It isn't absurd. What is absurd is the black community having a conniption fit anytime a black person is killed by a white cop. There is no data whatsoever that shows black folks are being targeted, executed, hunted, tracked, etc in a malicious manner by police.

The entire premise is bunk.

What is absurd is that the #1 cause of death for black men under 44 years old is homicide. Yet, no one is burning down cities or looting Best Buy over the 7 or 8 thousand black men murdered every year.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: Gryphon66

Why does it exist though? Is it being taught or is it learned or is it both?

It is taught. It is kind of a form of PTSD.

You have to remember that police were in fact unfairly targeting and beating the sh*t out of black folks on the regular barely two generations ago. So there is kind of this latent fear that gets passed on from parents to kids and then gets reinforced through popular culture. So even though the stereotypical Bull Connor sheriff may not exist anymore that image is still ingrained in the community consciousness.

a reply to: matafuchs

There was a time back during the time of the big political machines when the control of many police depts. was removed from city hall in many places and put under control of the state.

It's still that way where I am at. The state appoints 4 citizens of the city and the mayor is the fifth to sit on the independent police board. It's supposed to ensure that the police do not become another organ of city hall.

Perhaps it's time to look at revisiting that structure again in some places.

They are currently pushing awful hard to get local control back to city hall here, but St. Louis regained control of their police around 7 years ago, and nothing has improved for them, in fact, they've had some pretty strong rioting over all this. Our demonstrations have been pretty tame, and we had a cop shooting incident over the weekend that was almost a twin of what happened in Atlanta, and the police quickly defused the tension with openness and transparency.

Like anything, our cops aren't perfect at all, but they also aren't out working to generate revenue for city hall and they aren't joined at the hip with it. Look at loosening some of the union protections bad cops enjoy, and things might get even better.

a reply to: Edumakated

Yes, you've shared your opinion on the matter with me before, and all due respect, that's all it is.

Several facts counter your opinion.

The entire Black community does not protest or riot every time a cop kills a Black man.

Protesting is not necessarily a rational act. Neither is rioting. Both are driven by fear, also not rational.

Statistics are used as needed for political purposes.

For example, your use of homicide is the number one cause of death for Black men 44 and under.

Yes, that is startling and extremely disturbing.

Now, how many of those homocides are "Black on Black"?

How many are aggravated assault? manslaughter? How many are related by blood?

What's number 2 under age 44? Unintentional injuries.

Number 3 (1-19) and 4?(20-44) Suicide.

Are you equally concerned about those causes? If not, why not?

CDC

a reply to: Gryphon66

Because in the context of this discussion, we're talking about causes of death caused by other people, specifically either law enforcement of non-black people or both in one person.

The other context is why black people run into law enforcement so much, and that staggeringly high homicide rate gives you a clue. If you have high rates of criminal activity, then you end up running into lots of cops which increases your chances for negative police interaction.

So while police reform is important, it's only one part of the puzzle. We also need to look at why young black men kill other young black men so often.

As far as unintended accidents are concerned, everyone suffers from those. Are those numbers out of line from other demographics? The black homicide rate is, especially when compared to the share of population. It's one quota blacks don't have any trouble filling, and that's a bad thing.

And you can ask the same with suicide. Is it out of line with other demographics?

So we can get back to why young black men are so likely to kill each other, and start to answer that one, and you've likely done as much to reduce issues with the cops as any police reform. Both together? And you might take the black community to a place where they can walk with whites on attitudes toward police in time.

FBI Expanded Homicide Table 3

This is from 2016 the same year as the CDC data.

Murder by Race

White 3499, Race of Offender, White 2854, Black 533
Black 2870, Race of Offender White 243, Black 2570

White on White Murder Rate 81.6%
Black on Black Murder Rate 89.5%

What does this tell us?

Most people commit murder within their own racial group,

a reply to: ketsuko

Yes, I'm aware of the way you like to use the heightened rates of arrest and conviction for Blacks.

So I put the question to you again: do you think that's because Blacks are targetted for arrest and railroaded into convictions?

Or is it because for some reason Black people are just more criminal?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Edumakated

Yes, you've shared your opinion on the matter with me before, and all due respect, that's all it is.

Several facts counter your opinion.

The entire Black community does not protest or riot every time a cop kills a Black man.

Protesting is not necessarily a rational act. Neither is rioting. Both are driven by fear, also not rational.

Statistics are used as needed for political purposes.

For example, your use of homicide is the number one cause of death for Black men 44 and under.

Yes, that is startling and extremely disturbing.

Now, how many of those homocides are "Black on Black"?

How many are aggravated assault? manslaughter? How many are related by blood?

What's number 2 under age 44? Unintentional injuries.

Number 3 (1-19) and 4?(20-44) Suicide.

Are you equally concerned about those causes? If not, why not?

CDC

So now you want to debate what shade of blue the sky is...

First off, I never said ALL the black community. You can form complete sentences and seemingly intelligent, so I expect you to be able to know that I am speaking in generalities.

We agree that protesting is not necessarily rational. Looting most certainly isn't. This is the point. None of these protests and looting are rational as they are driven by fear and nothing else. Again, there is no hard statistical data showing this fear is justified. However, being that I am part of the community in question, I do understand the historical context and from where this fear comes from.

The larger question is how do you convince the community no one is out to get them?

The majority of homicides whether black or white involve people who are acquainted and generally occur within one's own race for that reason.

I am not concerend with the other causes of death as they are largely things out of control of the community. Tragic in their own way, but hardly unusual so don't warrant the same level of concern imho. Surely you can see the difference.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
FBI Expanded Homicide Table 3

This is from 2016 the same year as the CDC data.

Murder by Race

White 3499, Race of Offender, White 2854, Black 533
Black 2870, Race of Offender White 243, Black 2570

White on White Murder Rate 81.6%
Black on Black Murder Rate 89.5%

What does this tell us?

Most people commit murder within their own racial group,

That is a no sh*t sherlock stat. The more important stat is the rate of homicide within said community.

If 10 white people kill each other and 1000 blacks kill each other... you can still say the majority of homicide occurs within one's race. However, it is clear one group has a bigger problem than the other.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: ketsuko

Yes, I'm aware of the way you like to use the heightened rates of arrest and conviction for Blacks.

So I put the question to you again: do you think that's because Blacks are targetted for arrest and railroaded into convictions?

Or is it because for some reason Black people are just more criminal?

I think it's because most black males are born without a father in the family and that for boys especially, this is very damaging to not have a father figure. Compound that by it now being generational with very, very few strong male role models in the African-American community that aren't sports figures, rappers, or local gang members in most of the worst neighborhoods where crime is the worst and the homicide rates the highest.

The get to school mostly without having the basic social skills needed to learn, and the schools they have are usually crappy thanks to budget mismanagement (some of them spend more per pupil than solid private schools in the same area will) and corruption, so where they might otherwise have gotten somewhat caught up, they don't. Then they're surrounded in class by more like them coming from the same circumstances which makes it even tougher to learn anything because even if the teacher could teach, she's busy trying to enforce some order on the class.

So assuming they even get through school without quitting out to banging or running afoul of the criminal justice system, they are most likely going to be drastically underprepared for any kind of college. And the colleges want them for diversity reasons. They get in and have a sky high fail rate.

You could argue it all as racism ... but black women from the same backgrounds don't have nearly the same fail rate.

You're looking at an education that is currently geared for female success to produce female success. It's hostile to males no matter your racial background: white, black, or purple with green spots because the classrooms and learning structures have been produced to encourage more female graduates.

Understand, these are entirely bright and capable children. I know I worked with them for several years in the inner city, but it was gut wrenching. At every level, they are set up to fail. Their family life fails them. Their schools fail them. The whole system fails them, but it all starts with the family or lack of it.

a reply to: Edumakated

No, it's not clear that one has a bigger problem ... not by the statistics.

And that's your argument, right? We should be lead by what the numbers say?

The numbers say that the rate of race-specific crime between Whites and Blacks are very similar.

I'm sure you'll adjust your feelings according to the facts, right?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

Because in the context of this discussion, we're talking about causes of death caused by other people, specifically either law enforcement of non-black people or both in one person.

The other context is why black people run into law enforcement so much, and that staggeringly high homicide rate gives you a clue. If you have high rates of criminal activity, then you end up running into lots of cops which increases your chances for negative police interaction.

So while police reform is important, it's only one part of the puzzle. We also need to look at why young black men kill other young black men so often.

As far as unintended accidents are concerned, everyone suffers from those. Are those numbers out of line from other demographics? The black homicide rate is, especially when compared to the share of population. It's one quota blacks don't have any trouble filling, and that's a bad thing.

And you can ask the same with suicide. Is it out of line with other demographics?

So we can get back to why young black men are so likely to kill each other, and start to answer that one, and you've likely done as much to reduce issues with the cops as any police reform. Both together? And you might take the black community to a place where they can walk with whites on attitudes toward police in time.

The reason the questions you are asking are never addressed is because it highlights the failings of the black community culturally. Once you go down that rabbithole you start seeing the 75% out of wedlock birth rates, etc.... the community doesn't want to self-reflect and rather blame racism.

A guy who has done nothing but have a sleep in his car is harassed by two cops. He manages to run away but they shoot him in the back killing him.

I would call that murder.

But I don't live in USA . Cops here in Scotland do not carry guns so very few people wind up dead. We do have loads of drunks though.