Atlanta Police Chief resigns after Black Man shot

originally posted by: TheRedneck


I was actually amazed to hear that a lot of departments hire from outside their jurisdiction. That seems... wrong.

TheRedneck

Simple, when you have officers that are policing within the neighborhoods they grew up in, you have problems with favoritism or at the very least the perception of favoritism. Every time you let someone off with a warning, how well do you know them? Are you friends with them or someone they know? What about when you decide to take someone in? Have you had any personal problems with them in the past? Is there any animosity or negative history between you?

These things could present huge legal issues. Better to avoid them.

originally posted by: TorqueyThePig

Sure, we may be able to reduce the numbers slightly and we should work towards that.

Like I said, I am all for mandatory BJJ training.

I am also all for not making police officers respond to non-criminal situations and even the legalization of some currently illegal narcotics.

Seems like there were a lot less of this in the past of officer killing people. 2000 ABOUT 200, 1990s 50, 1980s 29...2010S about 1000 per year...

Of course we will probably see an increase in crime because of it but it seems the public wants that over the alternative.

Actually Portugal legalized most drugs decades ago and their drug crime/problem went way down, and we are seeing it with pot in the states doing the same thing.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Granby
These cops can be easily trained in control.

1 hour a day. Twice a week for 6 months.
Controlling positions. Grips. Points of entry.

This is all basic stuff.

What would be the harm in putting police through this training?
How could it possibly hurt?

It would make their jobs much easier.

Why not do something like this?
What is the reasoning behind not having this type of program?

Wouldn't this be what one would call a basic skill for cops...kind of like a roofer using a hammer correctly? On the other side we see a lot of cops that may not be physically capable and just don't care to learn. I also think they relay on the taser too much, why get physical when you can just zap someone, and then the zapping doesn't work, and the guy dies.

I would think that as part of the academy or part of a program after graduation would be absolutely mandatory.

For as much as they have to control people they should at least no how to do it

originally posted by: puzzled2
a reply to: Granby

I was the "crazed" person in situation training and if it took less than 3 people to control me it was a failure.

Not hopped on drugs, no intent on injuring anyone, you're very delusional on what it takes to control a human being with minimal force.

Sure if the cop had put the guy in a choke hold and ground and pound the guy a bit he would have controlled the situation.

What experience have you had in real life doing this?

Does it really matter how much experience?
No matter what I say it will be discredited and pushed aside.

Having said that. Many hours spent learning how to control people.


I just don't see why there would be any opposition to this

a reply to: Xtrozero

Has our population increased over the years? If so, would the numbers not increase over time?

Also, have we seen American culture change over the years? Sure seems there is more disrespect and aggression across the board.

I wasn't talking about an increase in crime due to legalizing pot, more so police not responding to non-criminal crimes like calls involving the homeless, verbal altercations, etc.

Those types of calls are mediated successfully by police thousands of times a day. When they stop responding many of those situations may very well escalate to violence.

originally posted by: TorqueyThePig
I train Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and believe it should be mandatory for all LEO's. It's not the end all be all but I do believe it would help.

That said, I wonder if during the struggle they were hesitant to try as hard to subdue him because they were worried he may have died from some kind of condition brought on by his intoxication and the struggle. Worried that they may be thrown under the bus by their administration and the public.

Trying a more subdued and "hands off" approach had the opposite effect because it created an even worse situation.

Just a thought that I think is relevant in today's climate.

Of course it would help. You understand what I mean by control.
Hand fighting. Points of entry. Different grips. Basic holds.

This is all entry level stuff and absolutely should be taught to ALL officers

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: TheRedneck
Officer candidates and trainees are in short supply.

Lots of police officers are leaving, and many more are thinking of leaving and taking some other job/s after they have witnessed how the left-wing media, and even left-wing leaders decided to abandon them and sold them out. If this continues we are going to see a lack of police officers in any democrat city/state that decides to not back up our LEOs.

The sad part is, the places that are doing this are the places that need police the most. And the people who will be most hurt by the lack of police will, of course, be minorities. Just like pretty much every progressive pet project.

Honestly, if you were a cop, why wouldn't you want to walk away and take a job doing private security or something like that, where you'll probably have less risk, better pay, and less political nonsense to deal with?

a reply to: Granby

I can't disagree.

We are seeing that though, academies and agencies are adopting proper grappling training curriculums.

For example, www.mariettaga.gov...

originally posted by: TorqueyThePig

Also, have we seen American culture change over the years? Sure seems there is more disrespect and aggression across the board.

This here is actually a big part of the problem. It's funny when I see someone suggest "Well x European country did y, so America should do that." Does that European country glorify and even defend gangs and violence the way our culture does?

a reply to: face23785

It's most certainly a multi-faceted problem.

Until people realize that nothing will change.

originally posted by: Granby
a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Cops can only shoot if they are afraid for their life correct?

Tasers are non lethal correct?

So a guy is running away and points a non lethal weapon while moving away and they use deadly force...

That is what happened


And the justification of the shoot is starting
Good job

The company itself that makes the taser says that shooting is justified if someone points one at an officer because the officer could be incapacitated, his firearm seized, and then the criminal use that to not only kill the officer, but any civilians nearby as well. You cannot allow your firearm to be seized under any circumstances, and that's exactly what the use of a taser would enable.

Good job, yourself, of ignoring the reality of the streets.

a reply to: drussell41

If he had controlled the man with basic techniques he would not have lost his taser

There should be a focus on this

a reply to: Granby

Not all fights and attempts to restrain someone end the way you want them to end....this one for example. This guy made a fatal error in seizing the taser and POINTING it.

I wish basic techniques worked 100 percent of the time, but they don't. Very sadly in this case. No one (well, except for sociopaths) want anyone to die in these encounters.

a reply to: Granby

How many real fights have you been in? There are no basic techniques in the street. This is not a controlled environment.

The Wire is the greatest show ever... it seems to cover so many aspects of modern life. For those of you unfortunate to have not watched this show, you are really missing out. It covers drug dealers, police, unions, education system, media, and politicians in Baltimore and how the interact with each other - no one is presented as being bad or good. They are just players in a game. The acting is superb (launched several top notch A list actors) and the dialogue is second to none.


In this scene the police Captain explains to a young sergeant about policing what is wrong with it. The young cops run up on the "corners" in the hood busting the drug dealers and other people thinking they are doing their job. HOwever, the captains says it doesn't work because you wind up alienating the community and when something bad really does happen, no one wants to talk to you.

The money quote in the scene he says is ".... soon the neighborhood you are supposed to be policing just becomes occupied territory"

originally posted by: drussell41
a reply to: Granby

Not all fights and attempts to restrain someone end the way you want them to end....this one for example. This guy made a fatal error in seizing the taser and POINTING it.

I wish basic techniques worked 100 percent of the time, but they don't. Very sadly in this case. No one (well, except for sociopaths) want anyone to die in these encounters.

I didn't say they would work 100% of the time
I said it would make their job easier and make us safer

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: Granby

How many real fights have you been in? There are no basic techniques in the street. This is not a controlled environment.

Nothing will work 100% of the time but there absolutely are basic control techniques.
When he was on the ground and the cop was behind him the cop could have controlled him very easily from that position.

He could have controlled his entire body from a safe position behind him while his partner controlled his arms and cuffed him in the front.
From that point the man would be contained.

And it not being a controlled environment is the precise reason why cops should be trained in control.

Are you saying they should not be taught any type of basic control techniques?
You think it is totally a waste of time?


Simply learning how to control a persons wrist with the proper grip so they cannot easily peel it off is huge.

Why not put a couple pilot programs out there so you can see the results yourself.

If two 'trained' cops cannot control one man then they are not properly trained at all

originally posted by: TorqueyThePig

Has our population increased over the years? If so, would the numbers not increase over time?

Lol easy to figure out with simple math. Population in 1980 was 100 million less at 226,000,000 so compared 29 people killed in the 80s to 9,000 killed in the 2010s. What ya think?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I wasn't disagreeing with you. I'm just pointing out the clip itself, by itself, looks bad. The bigger picture needs to be seen, the full video, and the emotional overreaction on both sides needs to stop. Neither side is capable of discussing things calmly and rationally. "The time for calm discussion is over!" It seemingly never existed.

a reply to: Granby

The problem is this put your self in a cops shoes.

In a fight, I was taught to fight till the other person was not moving and was no threat. No cheap shots. No ending moves. De-escalate. Plain and simple. If someone was attacking me in a fight something I have to everything in my power to protect my life. Eye gouge. Biting. Squeezing testicles. Head butting. Lifting and Slamming. Banging a head on a pavement. Bending/breaking fingers...I can tell you those things will make even the baddest man squeal. It is you against them. It is not like the movies.

Now, be a cop. You have a guy who was fine and calm and you are almost over the threat and BAM...they start swinging. Now you have people fighting with a firearm present. Not good. Trying to gain footing on graveling pavement can lead to some easy falls. What do you do? You try to de-escalate. They tried. It got worse with the stealing of the taser. At this point they are a threat. The officer had every right to use his firearm...if it called for it.

That is where it becomes about perception and when you toss in some emotion you get Wendy's burnt to the ground.