Corona Virus Updates Part 6

originally posted by: McGinty

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: carewemust
Some form of Hydroxychloroquine-based treatment is the safest (and least expensive) way forward. Big pharma and affiliated crooks don't like HCQ, which is a good sign!

Actually, high dose IV Vitamin C is much safer, and much cheaper - and yes, much more effective at stopping the cytokine storm and bringing patients at deaths door back from the edge.

Part of the treatment (I think in Italy) was indeed high doses of vit C, among other things. Be good to how that worked out.

But only for a few doctors. It was also used in China, following some reports within the past 2 years that it helped with sepsis (the study is inconclusive on that.)

Harvard Health newsletter has a good (plain English) review of the treatments (including Vitamin C.)

However, I'm pretty sure that the "vitamin C" infusion is not the pure vitamin.... which is ascorbic acid and would kill you pretty quickly (and painfully) when injected into your bloodstream. Your blood needs to be pH neutral.

There are a number of clinics that have been shut down for fraud, who were claiming that their Vitamin C would cure or prevent Covid-19. (Newsweek story, Detroit Free Press and others... just google your news source)

There are no papers on MedRxIV (the Medical papers server for Yale) on Vitamin C and coronavirus. A PubMed search turned up 6 papers, but one is on Vitamin D, and and among the others, this paper concludes that vitamin C is not recommended and another that is a comprehensive review says that only one trial is ongoing (ends in September) and that it's only used for the sepsis phase of Covid-19 (if the case goes into sepsis... not for the full course.)

The one positive paper (this one) is frankly a little suspect. It's not a medical research paper but rather a review of a single topic (and just reports the reported results.) What made me raise my eyebrows is that the author of this paper is not an emergency room physician or a physician working with Covid-19 patients. It says in his bio "Dr. Cheng is the founder and director of Dr. Cheng Integrative Health Center and Doctor’s Anti-Aging and Weight Loss Center, of Columbia, SC, since inception in 2003."

Here is his blog He's very insistent that vitamin C is the answer, and some Chinese doctors apparently agree with him.

So... that's what I found. The rest of the world doesn't seem that enthused about it for treating Covid-19 with the possible exception of when the patient goes into sepsis, and even then it's not a much talked-about therapy (though physicians and hospitals certainly are aware of it.)

originally posted by: Arbitrageur
After unrealistic looking downward drops in deaths on 4/26 and 4/27, the deaths in the US have jumped way back up on 4/28 and 4/29 though not as high as the previous peak levels. But I think there must be something going on in the reporting causing these mid-week spikes. I doubt the actual daily death rates jump up and down by this large a magnitude, as seen here, though the total numbers may be OK and the rolling averages should help smooth the data:

I have noticed weird skips in some of the Texas data... partly due to when they actually report the numbers. That suggests they're having trouble getting information from their sources.

We're about to hit triple digit deaths in Dallas... 99 total as of last night.

Numbers Update for Europe, and elsewhere (No BNO) :







www.worldometers.info...

Financial Times for the 28th (One or two are updated, iirc) :

NOTE - I am not recommending anyone try vitamins via IV outside of a hospital, and I also want to point out that oral application of Vitamin C has also been shown to be effective as well.

a reply to: Byrd
"Part of the treatment (I think in Italy) was indeed high doses of vit C, among other things. Be good to how that worked out."

But only for a few doctors. It was also used in China, following some reports within the past 2 years that it helped with sepsis (the study is inconclusive on that.)

And a few Doctors in NYC hospitals too too - and they had/are having very good results - "The patients who received vitamin C did significantly better than those who did not get vitamin C," he (Dr. Andrew G. Weber, a pulmonologist and critical-care specialist affiliated with two Northwell Health facilities on Long Island) said.

And this was at very low doses (4.5 - 6 grams per day). To achieve true therapeutic levels, IV Vitamin C typically starts at 25grams per day (in divided doses), going up to 100grams per day or more.

Harvard Health newsletter has a good (plain English) review of the treatments (including Vitamin C.)

However, I'm pretty sure that the "vitamin C" infusion is not the pure vitamin.

-sigh- just like a saline solution is not 'pure salt' which, yes, would kill you pretty quickly (and painfully).

It would be nice if you would refrain from ignorant comments about something you obiously know nothing about.

Phase I safety trials on high-dose IV Vitamin C are done - and the verdict is, high dose IV vitamin C is perfectly safe, says our medical mafia overlords.

There are a number of clinics that have been shut down for fraud, who were claiming that their Vitamin C would cure or prevent Covid-19. (Newsweek story, Detroit Free Press and others... just google your news source)

Ahem... that was one clinic... and yes, Doctors are constantly being harassed for making claims not blessed by Dr. fascist Fauci and his ilk.

There are no papers on MedRxIV (the Medical papers server for Yale) on Vitamin C and coronavirus.

But there is a ton of real evidence that high dose Vitamin C is very effective against things like pneumonia, colds (you know, in the Coronavirus family), tetanus, and .

The NIH itself has acknowledged Vitamin C has serious antiviral and antibacterial properties.

TLDR - two excerpts (note the bolded text)...

From the Abstract:
"Two controlled trials found a statistically significant dose–response, for the duration of common cold symptoms, with up to 6–8 g/day of vitamin C. Thus, the negative findings of some therapeutic common cold studies might be explained by the low doses of 3–4 g/day of vitamin C. Three controlled trials found that vitamin C prevented pneumonia. Two controlled trials found a treatment benefit of vitamin C for pneumonia patients. One controlled trial reported treatment benefits for tetanus patients. The effects of vitamin C against infections should be investigated further."

And from the Conclusions (scroll way down):

"From a large series of animal studies we may conclude that vitamin C plays a role in preventing, shortening, and alleviating diverse infections. It seems evident that vitamin C has similar effects in humans. Controlled studies have shown that vitamin C shortens and alleviates the common cold and prevents colds under specific conditions and in restricted population subgroups. Five controlled trials found significant effects of vitamin C against pneumonia. There is some evidence that vitamin C may also have effects on other infections, but there is a paucity of such data. The practical importance and optimally efficacious doses of vitamin C for preventing and treating infections are unknown. Vitamin C is safe and costs only pennies per gram, and therefore even modest effects may be worth exploiting."

Fyi: these studies - even the ones showing great promise - were all based on oral ingestion, and all use comparatively low doses. Studies that showed no or very low activity used extremely low doses (half a gram and less).

So, to ask a serious question...

Why are you so vehemently against its use? It is safe, it has been proven safe, and effective against many different things like pneumonia, SARS, etc...

originally posted by: timewarpedbrain7
Whatever happened to TheAMEDDDoc, he had some great input in earlier threads (1-3).

I've been re-reading the threads from the beginning of #1 and I must applaud a few members for some seriously great in sight on this whole pandemic.

MIMS street talk, thank you for such great info time and time again.


MrRCflying for great back and forths while also adding great info regularly

Byrd really nothing I can say just solid material being added thank you.

And so many others I just can't think of all the names but seriously thank you, things said on these threads months ago have come true and thanks to these amazing people my family was well prepared.

Oh and where is toysforadults, I believe its crow eating time lol

Gotta add my agreement for all of those members; back in January/Feb (?) I joined just to post something like “this will be for the world what Ebola was like last time, a fart in the wind outside of the surrounding areas of the outbreak, chill out, no big deal”.

But I kept checking back and learned a hell of a lot from the aforementioned members and lots of others as well (even Phage,whom I’ve always lurked with a love-hate relationship, lol). I appreciate all of the info and discussion of important factual details that help us all learn more about the science of this. I was able to confidently warn my friend who has a micro-premie toddler with really crappy lungs, and she trusted me enough to prep for quarantine weeks ahead, and for that we both thank y’all.

Okay, I’m done, back to lurking, lol

So... have you seen the one (not kidding with this) where Indian police, concerned about the virus and social distancing (a good idea... the country is under a very strict lockdown) are going to use giant tongs on suspects?

Link to the tweet from the police with the video

I hadn't thought about this issue, but it has been a problem before in handling individuals with possible infections and police are at an elevated risk for Covid-19. As far as I can tell, beyond handing out some masks and gloves, not a lot is being done to protect law enforcement officers. As of now, the US cities at the epicenter of the pandemic are mainly where they are reporting a rise in these cases... but it wouldn't surprise me when we start seeing them here in Dallas and other large cities.

At any rate, I do applaud the Indian police for a very creative solution. I can hardly wait for Version 2 (and I hope there will be other similar efforts to keep both officers and the detainees safe.)

Interesting papers from the MedRxiv servers and other sources:

An update to a preprint "COVID-19 Antibody Seroprevalence in Santa Clara County, California"

Methods On April 3-4, 2020, we tested county residents for antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 using a lateral flow immunoassay. Participants were recruited using Facebook ads targeting a sample of individuals living within the county by demographic and geographic characteristics. We estimate weights to adjust our sample to match the zip code, sex, and race/ethnicity distribution within the county. We report both the weighted and unweighted prevalence of antibodies to SARS-CoV-2. We also adjust for test performance characteristics by combining data from 16 independent samples obtained from manufacturer's data,

Bottom line here: in spite of what published numbers were, the evidence from seriological tests suggest that around 54,000 people in Santa Clara county were infected in early April, much larger than the 1,000 cases that had been confirmed by tests.

This also ties in with another set of papers that I read but decided not to post here because of possible squabbling -- basically those papers said that at this point, too few people were affected by Covid-19 to have any sort of "herd immunity."

Not a paper, but a very good post from the Center for Evidence Based Medicine on what a "wave" in a pandemic is and how many waves previous pandemics had. Well written, easy to understand.

Press release on Leronlimab, which may be the next drug in final clinical trials. It's another one that's been "fast-tracked" by the FDA. The company reports remarkable recoveries -- what's interesting here is that this was administered to organ transplant patients, who would typically be at the highest risk in any pandemic or epidemic.

It's a "viral entry inhibitor" similar to Remdesivir that blocks entry of the virus into cells. As with Remdesivir, it is a drug previously used in HIV.

My final choice for the evening is a paper for all of you modeling fans, Informative Ranking of Stand Out Collections of Symptoms: A New Data-Driven Approach to Identify the Strong Warning Signs of COVID 19 Although this isn't by MD's, it caught my eye, because as a grad student in 1980, I wrote a program to be used in a small clinic to diagnose common illnesses (the professors and I presented it at a long-ago conference of the Society for Medical Computing)

We develop here a data-driven approach for disease recognition based on given symptoms, to be
efficient tool for anomaly detection. In a clinical setting and when presented with a patient with a
combination of traits, a doctor may wonder if a certain combination of symptoms may be especially
predictive, such as the question, “Are fevers more informative in women than men?” The answer to this
question is, yes. We develop here a methodology to enumerate such questions, to learn what are the
stronger warning signs when attempting to diagnose a disease, called Conditional Predictive Informativity, (CPI), whose ranking we call CPIR

This is a paper that programmers (like me)and math geeks and modelers will adore, with data and formulas to delight the mind.

Most striking, and of note for everyone, is an early graphic showing that for men and women over age 60, the disease presents itself VERY differently in terms of symptoms.

a reply to: Byrd

"However, I'm pretty sure that the "vitamin C" infusion is not the pure vitamin.... which is ascorbic acid and would kill you pretty quickly (and painfully) when injected into your bloodstream. Your blood needs to be pH neutral."

It is the less acidic version of vitamin c that is usually used in intravenous therapies, Sodium Ascorbate.

Sodium ascorbate solution injection for intravenous infusion is indicated for the treatment of vitamin C deficiency when oral treatment is not feasible.

www.healthdirect.gov.au...

Both ascorbic acid and sodium ascorbate are forms of Vitamin C.  Sodium Ascorbate falls under the category of mineral salts. Therefore, while ascorbic acid is the pure form of Vitamin C, Sodium Ascorbate is the sodium salt of ascorbic acid.

www.gaiaorganics.co.za...

originally posted by: primalfractal
a reply to: Byrd

"However, I'm pretty sure that the "vitamin C" infusion is not the pure vitamin.... which is ascorbic acid and would kill you pretty quickly (and painfully) when injected into your bloodstream. Your blood needs to be pH neutral."

It is the less acidic version of vitamin c that is usually used in intravenous therapies, Sodium Ascorbate.

Sodium ascorbate solution injection for intravenous infusion is indicated for the treatment of vitamin C deficiency when oral treatment is not feasible.

www.healthdirect.gov.au...

Both ascorbic acid and sodium ascorbate are forms of Vitamin C.  Sodium Ascorbate falls under the category of mineral salts. Therefore, while ascorbic acid is the pure form of Vitamin C, Sodium Ascorbate is the sodium salt of ascorbic acid.

www.gaiaorganics.co.za...

Thanks. I was entirely too lazy to look that up.

3 confirmed cases in Aotearoa/New Zealand today. Zero new deaths total still stands at 19.
Kia kaha world.

a reply to: timewarpedbrain7

Pepperidge Farm remembers....

Update Apr.30/20
Wuhan Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) Global Cases (by JHU CSSE)

gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com...#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Canada *** Total= 54,458 ***
27,550-Quebec, 17,395-Ontario, 5,355-Alberta, 2,112-British Columbia,
947-Nova Scotia, 389-Saskatchewan, 277-Manitoba, 118-New Brunswick,
258-Newfoundland & Labrador, 26-Prince Edward Island,
5-Northwest Territories, 11-Yukon, 13-Grand Princess,

coronavirus.1point3acres.com... USA & Canada Updates

www.worldometers.info...

It's Friday afternoon in Thailand, May 1. The emergency decree was originally meant to end yesterday but it has been extended for another month.

This is the 5th consecutive day with new cases being in single digits; only 6 today, no deaths (pop. nearly 70m).

I think many people are now questioning why the lock-down is being continued when the virus has been virtually eradicated in the country. Currently we still have a night curfew in place, a ban on alcohol sales, and many people needing to get back to work or school. What's going on?

I can only speculate. Sure the medical experts are worried about a second wave. Balancing that against the economic need to get back to normal, maybe the government wants to maintain control and to cautiously lift the restrictions step by step.

If this doesn't happen though, it seems more and more probable that achieving the shut-down is the primary purpose in this drama and the virus, although real, is just a pretext, not only here but world-wide.

a reply to: Tamsuan

Only time can tell. If it is being used as a pretext it’s a clever check mate of a move, since the realities of the virus mean it’s far better to ease lockdown too late, rather than too early. So, any judgements about the your administrations’ motives can’t be accurately made until it’s perhaps too late.

originally posted by: McGinty
a reply to: Tamsuan

Only time can tell. If it is being used as a pretext it’s a clever check mate of a move, since the realities of the virus mean it’s far better to ease lockdown too late, rather than too early. So, any judgements about the your administrations’ motives can’t be accurately made until it’s perhaps too late.

If the virus is a 'move' then halting it's spread does block that move. I'm wondering whether perhaps the checkmate play will be widespread economic collapse and ensuing disorder which will bring nations to their knees begging for knights in shining armor (Gates, Soros, Bezos... you name 'em) to come riding to the rescue. It would be good to thwart that play.

Since the outbreak began we've only had 54 deaths so it is hard to maintain a sense of alarm and anxiety.

Numbers from around the world are taken from Worldometers for May 1st.

Spain - Pop: 44.6 M
242,988 Positive tests…….. or 1 out of 192 Spaniards
10.21% Deaths

Italy - Pop: 60.4 M
207,428 Positive tests….. or 1 out of 292 Italians
13.61 % Deaths

UK – Pop: 66.6 M
177,454 Positive tests….. or 1 out of 376 UKers
15.50 % Deaths

France – Pop: 67.0 M
167,178 Positive tests….. or 1 out of 401 French
14.58 % Deaths

Sweden – Pop: 10.2 M
21,520 Positive tests….. or 1 out of 475 Swedes
12.32 % Deaths

Denmark – Pop: 5.8 M
9,311 Positive tests….. or 1 out of 623 Danes
4.94 % Deaths

US - Pop: 330 M
1,111,236 Positive tests.... or 1 out of 297 Americans
5.83% Deaths

US death rates (2017):
1. Heart Disease …………….…………647,457 annual or 1,773 daily average
2. Cancer ……………………..……….….599,108 annual or 1,641 daily average
3. Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936 annual or 465 daily average
7. Diabetes:………………………………….83,564 annual or 228 daily average

COVID-19 ………………………………………. 64,876(62 Day) or 1046 daily average


*** SURPASSED *****

8. Influenza and Pneumonia …………55,562 annual or 152 daily average
9. Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis:..50,633 annual or 138 daily average
10. Intentional self-harm (suicide):..47,173 annual or 129 daily average
X. Auto accidents ………………….………37,461 annual or 102 daily average
X. H1N1 2009 ESTIMATED (8,868 – 18,638) for 1 year or 24 – 50 daily average

a reply to: Tamsuan

What is the reason for shutting down world-wide? What is the logic behind that conspiracy?

Numbers Update for Europe, and Elsewhere (No BNO) :

Hong Kong is now at the very bottom of these caps.







www.worldometers.info...

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: Tamsuan

What is the reason for shutting down world-wide? What is the logic behind that conspiracy?



Strictly speaking it's not a conspiracy because the purpose of a conspiracy would be to do something illegal.
Creating one world gov't is not illegal especially if people are clamoring for it.

Problem - Reaction - Solution

Not the proper thread to go into this, right?

edit on 1-5-2020 by Tamsuan because: spacing for clarity