Corona Virus Updates Part 6

Now they are coming for the Kids - -

Moderna starting COVID-19 vaccine study on kids aged 6-months to less than 12-years-old

The KidCOVE study will involve children ages 6-months to less than 12 years old. The first participants have already been dosed in the study, and Moderna expects to enroll 6,750 healthy pediatric participants.

Healthy pediatric participants ? wow

a reply to: TheAMEDDDoc

Have so far tried steadily to pinpoint the possible origin of certain stages, the following sounds as though it runs very close to the early CONVID 19 infections , those in which pneumonia swung in fast;

en.wikipedia.org...

[ Additionally, the respiratory burst is inhibited. This allows R. equi to multiply within the phagosome where it is shielded from the immune system by the very cell that was supposed to kill it.[

Seems to ring a bell or two.

a reply to: steaming

Curious what your thoughts are, are you saying Covid boosts infection of certain bacteria? The immune pathways are slightly different with virus versus bacteria, because of their size difference and metabolism.

So a virus you want to neutralize in two ways, bind antibody to inactivate extra cellular virions (humoral), use cells to tell infected cells to undergo apoptosis or controlled suicide rather than necroptosis which is inflammatory and uncontrolled, they can also poke holes in cells and lyse them (cell-mediated). The antigen presenting cells will be going after infected cells and pieces of cells left over (innate) to keep presenting new viral antigen pathways for antibody generation. Certain viruses will try to hijack these pathways to use inflammation against the host or block aspects that help the host.

Bacteria are a little more creative because they are alive and will alter structure, shape, and metabolism to impact the host cells. They use virulence factors and toxins for the most part and will taken up by antigen presenting cells to present to the immune system. They can do sneaky things to prevent antigen presentation and even use antigen presenting cells like macrophages to travel to the blood stream and lymph nodes. They like to use aspects like alternative binding sites on APCs to change uptake response in the phagosome. They can prevent phagosome and lysosome fusion, preventing digestion. They can reduce to formation of reactive oxygen or reactive nitrogen species that use that respiratory burst to oxidize their membranes. Plus, they can increase the pH inside the macrophage to make it non acidic and give them an advantage, neutrophiles, or bacteria liking neutral pH is something many bacteria enjoy because of enzyme function.

Bacteria will eventually be neutralized by antibodies, plus their toxins, via humoral immunity. Then cell based should take care of the rest as immune cells go after bacteria and infected cells. They are masters of gene expression which makes them extremely dangerous, especially in compromised hosts.

Both could happen but I would expect Covid to use oxidative stress and inflammation to its advantage rather than suppressing it like a bacteria would. That doesn’t mean someone is not at risk of a secondary bacterial infection, which would be catastrophic in a patient under oxidative stress and high inflammation. A bacteria could use that environment to reach the blood and lymph nodes, suppressing these factors because of high expression in the host during infection, with altered immune cell counts, and the host would be overwhelmed by toxins and sepsis very quickly, quickly amplifying the inflammatory crisis.

a reply to: SonOfThor

Thank you for the information. Yeah I am in the same boat, but figured risk of the vaccine was less than the environment I work in. I see patients in the military and I work in Covid research labs. Definitely safer, for me, to at least attempt the vaccine.

I have mixed feelings about all of this, I warn people about what I have seen and try to give information based on personal knowledge and experience just like we all do. I am starting to see people not respond well to the vaccines, or hear about it from people I know, finally heard about someone dying days after one of the vaccines, not sure if it’s related or not.

I can’t wait to see which vaccine produced better immunity. Maybe the adenovirus vector will because it uses a DNA plasmid that is much longer lasting than the RNA vaccines. What stinks about the adenovirus vector is you will produce antibodies to the adenovirus vector and to the proteins generated from the plasmid. So you can’t get it multiple times in its current state, I am curious to see how they get around that aspect.

It stinks, this should be something we more thoroughly test, biology loves to produce unexpected results that we didn’t even think possible.

a reply to: steaming

OH no I am not, well I am notsaying nwhat you seem to suspect. However recent studies have noted a mysterious - said they - kind of TB Bacteria tied to the lysome. to cut long story short IF the said Covid 19 , did start as a means of genetic wafare, then yes it had a strange start that enable it to originally;

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Follow through by GAS bypassing.

So were the following also wrong ??

www.thelancet.com...(20)30057-4/fulltext

a reply to: steaming

PS Ref the LANCET = above;

[ Metagenomic analyses of patients infected with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 have frequently reported high reads of cariogenic and periodontopathic bacteria,3
endorsing the notion of a connection between the oral microbiome and COVID-19 complications. Evidence suggests that periodontopathic bacteria are involved in the pathogenesis of respiratory diseases, such as those implicated in COVID-19, and are associated with chronic inflammatory systemic diseases including type 2 diabetes, hypertension, and cardiovascular disease. These diseases are frequently reported comorbidities associated with an increased risk of severe complications and death from COVID-19. Suggested mechanisms that might explain the role of oral bacteria in the ]

[ what-if-all-viruses-disappeared ]

www.bbc.com...

So, been away for a while.
Been on hols for 2 weeks, totally(mostly) disconnected from covid info.
intentionally (for the mind).
I have also migrated to a Mac Mini M1 (it was given to me).

I have been keeping an eye on the thread, i'm a bit "blasé" on the numbers at the moment, it's been a year, after all.
It's also easier, but so different on mac.
Not used to it yet.

Actual thread related news, I started work again Monday.
There seems to be about the same number of people on the trains as a few weeks ago.
My colleague was a trace contact, as his son tested positive for covid, and was asymptomatic.
He tested negative, so he's back at work, after 7 days off.

There was a new "Breton" or 'Brittany' variant discovered in the north west of France.
20C apparently.
No trace yet on Nextstrain.org (of the French cases).
It wasn't detected by the tests (PCR), the nurses noticed they had covid-like symptoms, and they did deeper-tests, and that revealed covid.
A new variant.
Of the 8 cases detected so far, all have died. They are still working on seeing how many people may have this variant, and a worthy test for it.
They were all in the same hospital, so it might be a new variant created in the hospital.
This is very new, and they probably only noticed it in the few who died recently, so I wouldn't take that as final data yet.

We hit almost 30K cases today, and 330+ deaths.
They are airlifting people out of the Ile de France region (Paris Basically), and are preparing the TGV trains to move people as well by the the end of the week.
They are hoping for 100 people a week by friday.
IDF (Ile de France) region is basically full with intensive care covid patients.
There are about 1050 places, and over 1033 are taken.
They are hoping to reduce that by 400 in the next month.

Both my parents (75 and 74) had the 1st Pfizer vaccine yesterday.
My Dad was fine, but getting info from him is almost impossible.
My ma had a headache about an hour after the jab that lasted into the evening and night, but has been fine since this morning.

I had a penta-flu jab a couple of weeks go ( better late than never).
Had it in the leg, my dad was doing it, and i don't trust him anywhere else.
I'll get it myself next time, and have the pharmacist do it.
someone who's had more than 1 second of medical guidance, and isn't 99% deaf, and 99% stubborn.

Also found out that there have been a couple of clusters at work.
Definitely less people in work than a couple of weeks ago, but still a lot of people sitting down and having group coffee sessions.
The chip-frier has also died in the work kitchen, there goes my lunchtime backup plan, as the veg is terrible, and the rice is worse.

Macron had a "conseil de Securité" today, a security council, and we are all expecting a lockdown around this weekend, but will probably get a weekend curfew instead ( in IDF region).

I believe they might be going for the Herd immunity thing, but hope they aren't.
They also say that schools will be the last to close, because, think of the kids.

Well, long post, I hate this "magic keyboard", and will continue using my "Ducky one TKL" on a usb switch.

Will keep an eye on this "Brittany or Breton" Variant, as I know more.
nextstrain.org isn't being that updated, but it does have some updates a least.
Knowing it takes weeks to get results does help, but in this computer age, if I dont have an update every 2-4 hours, i'm pi$$ed.

I don't see this being over until next year, but then again, i'm aka "Doomer", as in 'brings Doom to the gameplay by being present'.
Pessimist is probably the better word.
Glass half empty.

I really hate these 'chicklet' keyboards.
Give me an IBM Model 'M' any day.

Stay Safe Everyone.

a reply to: MonkeyBalls2
Yay! Glad to see you back and all's well!
I had been mulling asking if anyone knew what had happened to you

Rainbows
Jane

a reply to: angelchemuel

Yeah, i'm fine, thanks

Just needed some time to chill from all the news.

Just got back from work, they have closed the site as of midday today, and everyone has been sent to work from home.
There will be a skeleton crew on site only for the running of the building, and emergency support that can't be done over the phone or internet.

The reason is that there are too many clusters appearing in the company.
My colleague said that someone had a meeting last week, and infected just about everyone at the meeting, who then went back to their respective teams, and infected them.
As i've mentioned before, waaaay too many people were coming into work, and this has now bit them in the arse.

We're closed for the foreseeable future at the moment.

We are expecting Macron, or the Govt, to announce restrictions tomorrow.
We are probably looking at a full weekend curfew, but it might be a full lockdown, we won't know until tomorrow most likely.

The numbers dished out today, are that 96% of ER beds are in use, and that only 6.9% of the population in the Ile de France region has had the first vaccine dose. It having a much younger population than most of the country, has meant that not as many people have been eligible for a vaccine.
The region has also just passed 400 cases per 100K (402 iirc) and that was a limit for increased action.

Herd immunity is out, and there aren't enough vaccines to rapidly vaccinate everyone, even if we could.

We'll just have to see how this pans out....

About this "herd immunity" thing. I've been thinking about that, so decided to run some numbers to see what they look like.

Current population of the USA is 331 million, or thereabouts. I thought I read somewhere that the magic number is 80 percent of the population needing to become infected for that "herd immunity" to kick in. So we would be talking about 264.8 million people infected in the USA. So what is the percentage of deaths to be expected? 1.8%? If so, that would mean that in the process of obtaining this "herd immunity" there would be 4,766,400 deaths along the way. Just from the Wuhan Virus.

Someone else can run the figures from a worldwide perspective.

Acceptable losses? Perhaps for some of the survivors, I suppose. But seems pretty cold to believe that is a proper course to take, even for some sort of military action. And has anyone actually proven that this "herd immunity" thing would even work for this virus?

Personally, my goal is STILL to avoid the virus as long as I can, and refuse the "let's try this and hope for the best" vaccines until forced to take them.

IMHO.

a reply to: Rich Z
Deagel has predicted that by 2025 there will be 70% less people in USA than there is now.

originally posted by: angelchemuel
a reply to: McGinty
PS, funny how certain sea urchins look like a virus and its accompanying 'spikes'.

Wow, that is indeed a pretty uncanny resemblance to a virus. I guess if something works then nature and evolution embrace it, whether micro or macro.

Thanks so much for your detailed reply - it's great to have informed opinion that isn't blinkered by the mainstream (gave up on that long ago).

I'll move on from this as i'm in danger of hijacking this precious thread. But in reply to you and hopefully it might serve as an entertaining interlude from the ever present doom of our thread i'll relate the farce of my stingy encounter...

I can absolutely see the logic of the trauma theory and no doubt there was some level of trauma that may well have a residual effect. However, it was unconscious, as i clearly recall not being that bothered at the time. I was 3 or 4 months into a year of backpacking on my own around the globe. Having just passed through Nepal and India, with a wild monkey bite, a race for a hard to find rabies jab and then dysentery, a few sea urchins seemed small fry... But it's the small things that get you in the end, right?

It wasn't just one urchin - i arrived at the beautiful Phi Phi, island, Thailand (before they filmed The Beach there), at dusk. Got a boat to the furthest collection of beach huts and paid for one. I'd been on the road all day and fancied a little dip in the sea to wash off the sweat and grime. Tide was out, so i laid down flat in water, but i'd chosen a bad spot. I felt a sting on my backside, then my back. I guess my foot was stung as i wriggled away, but the stings were so numerous that i didn't feel it.

I found the hut's owner and he informed me that the water had urchins. He tried to convince me that the best course of action was that he immediately pee on me... Although i'm sure he was right - that it would help to neutralise the stings - i gratefully declined his generous offer and went to bed a little sore. Next morning i was still sore, particular the foot, which left me limping for several days.

Funny thing was that this trauma was soon to be eclipsed by another. I'm not a big fan of spiders - in fact they scare the hebegebees out of me, so i reeled back when i found a one as big as my palm - brown with yellow stripes - on the wall of my hut. One of us had to go! Should i try and get rid of it, or just leave? Maybe check the hut for more before deciding...

With just a small table and a bed there weren't a lot of hiding places. I checked around the bed and then lifted the paper thin mattress. Directly underneath my pillow was an enormous bloody spider, around 10 inches from toe to toe. Of course it was flattened by the weight my head upon it for the past several hours, but to my horror it's long legs slowly drew in towards the body and it pushed itself up... I gently lowered the mattress back down, grabbed my pack and was out of there in a heartbeat...

How on earth did it get under there all on it's own..?!?

So, sea urchins had quickly become a thing of the past and apart from the temporary limp any trauma from the spiky bastards was trumped by the huge spider bastard (apologies for the language, but if anything calls for it, it's finding a giant spider under your pillow). Who knew that 23 years later those urchins would still have their claws in me. I read once that the tips of the spikes detach, remanning in the 'victim', slowly working their way over the years towards the heart. When they get there they cause a cardiac arrest. Hoping that's just folklore rather than fact!

Interlude over, back to agenda 21 and the spiky microscopic b*stards!

Now the UK gov has revealed in a surprising u-turn after recently declaring they'd have a boost of vaccine supply in March, there will instead be a shortage...

Hmmm, So straight after the EU threaten to withhold Pfizer from the UK because the UK isn't delivering on their Astra Zeneca promise, the UK suddenly say, "Oh look, we thought we had loads of it, but actually we haven't got any...!"

It's so bloody transparent!

Surely Boris is yet again playing one of his BS win-win strategies from the Trump handbook of obfuscation & falsehoods.

On one hand he's putting the EU in a position where they can't use Astra Zeneca as an excuse to withhold Pfizer if even the Brits don't have any.

While at the same time, having just sent out millions of invites to the UKs over 50s to get the vaccine, this sudden shortage will cause a panic rush; many of those who had doubt's and would've delayed, or even declined the vaccine altogether will now be trying their damndest to get to the front of the queue before it's all gone.

With the growing tsunami of bad press Astra Zeneca is getting from EU countries suspending the vaccine's use and the extra, acute hesitation that'll no doubt cause amongst the UK's over 50s this month, this announcement that stocks are short, so get it while you can will be just the shot in the arm the Tories need to keep their vaccine roll out rolling out on schedule throughout March. How convenient!

And hey presto, they'll be an equally sudden announcement come April that they've just found a bunch of Astra Zeneca vaccines for the over-40s. Cue a new threat to supply, so they best hurry.

On a personal note i hit the big 50 very recently and got my over 50s invite to be vaccinated the other day. Wanting to make an informed decision i got an antibody test done yesterday to see if i'd already had Covid (not cheap!). My strategy was, like angelchemuel, that if i've had covid i'm definitely not getting the vaccine. Well, apparently i have not had covid! Pre-test i thought this might help my decision making, but no, still haven't a clue.

Incase anyone's curious it was the hejiang Orient Gene Covid-19 IgM/IgG antibody test which is used by Imperial College London. Sensitivity of 96% at day 10 and 100% at day 21. Specificity is 100%. Assuming i know what that means is as risky as buying a used car thinking you're i'm expert after reading a few bullet points about basic motor mechanics.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: Rich Z
Deagel has predicted that by 2025 there will be 70% less people in USA than there is now.

It's saying...
US population: 333 million
World population: 7,666 million

Some fun reading there for the superstitious among us. Three sixes is pretty apt for our times and the US being exactly half that might give those that place significance upon chance numbers the willies! I don't really buy into it, but the numbers are certainly pretty in their symmetry.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Scroll down such for details

a reply to: McGinty
And today dear Matt Hancock has announced they are delaying 1.7 million doses "because of the need to retest its stability".....there we have it! So on one hand they are still telling people to have it, but they are 'retesting it's stability".

As to your antibody test, do you think you have had C19?

Rainbows
Jane

PS, I listened to some of Dominic Cummings 'interrogation' by some sub-committee yesterday. I have to say I agreed with much he had to say. He warned the Government/NHS/ PHE 18 months to 2 years ago that as a country we were not equipped in any way shape or form for a pandemic when they ran a 'test run' thing. Cummings is a very clever man and very probably on the spectrum of genius. He doesn't care who he upsets when he has data and research to back him up.

a reply to: angelchemuel

Weren't they all on telly extolling the virtues and safety of the Vaccines ?
Now they admit they they are checking one for 'Stability', even though its the AstraZeneca one that is being produced in the UK...
So basically, they are also checking up on it, as well as countries in the EU.

They are also stating that there is no export ban on the AstraZeneca from the UK, but that their contract just states that they get the first 100 million doses for the UK.
Once those 100 million have been delivered to the UK, the UK will then consider exporting to other countries.

That's a contractual ban, and was decided by politicians, so yes, this is a politically motivated export ban.
The Irish premier stated that Johnson said that "We will vaccinate our people first" before exporting.

This is driving an even bigger wedge between the UK and the EU than Brexit.

a reply to: MonkeyBalls2

Personally, I'm not bothered one way or the other about who is supposed to be supplying who. I'm far more concerned that they are 'retesting' its stability.
retest
The 'retesting' might well be a saving grace for those still waiting.
Rainbows
Jane

a reply to: angelchemuel

Honestly, no idea if i've had Covid! I think it's far too easy to attribute other ailments to fulfil an unconscious bias. Do i trust the result? There's motive for the results to be artificially weighted towards 'negative', if there were reasons other than virus immunity to want us to get the jab. But you were negative and i've no foundation for assuming it's false that doesn't require copious tin foil applied to the head. Who knows?

It did occur to me earlier that if the Tories had reason to doubt the safety of the Astra Zeneca vaccine, then saying they run out would be the more attractive option for them to 'get it off the streets'. If it turned out now that the vaccine is as compromised as the EU suggest it could bring down this government. However, if it's revealed later that they knew this and carried on giving it to the over 50s this month there'd be a criminal investigation. I guess their defence for that would be Public Interest'; that revealing now that the vaccine is dangerous to some could cause the deaths of many from Covid, because they'd withdrawn it. It's a horsecrap defence, but they'd have their own enquiry panel installed to assure the outcome.

The thought that keeps bobbing to the surface in my addled brain is the 'climate catastrophe' point of no return that we're supposed to be on the precipice of. Now, i don't want to start the whole 'Is climate change real' debate in this thread; what's important is whether those in charge think it's real. So, if we assume for a moment that those in charge do think it's real and that we're currently at that now or never crossroads... what on earth could they do about it?

I can't think of any immediate solutions to cut emissions as much as we're told they need to be cut in the short time it needs to happen. So, maybe one can imagine how attractive and tempting it might be if someone in a 'we're all frakked - what'r we gonna do' Cobra meeting suggested faking a pandemic by paying hospitals to declare Flu, pneumonia etc deaths as Covid in order to roll out a genetic poison in the guise of a vaccine that will euthanise a large enough proportion of the masses in one swift go. How they might mull it over and over until the initial response of 'Should we do such a thing?' finally becomes the question 'How exactly do we go about it?' Moral dilemma is trumped by the appeal and process of pragmatic analysis. Before long they'd see themselves as Noah-esque saviours - forced to sacrifice a great many in order to save the future.

Lots of tin foil required for this notion and i'm definitely not saying that this is what i think is happening. It's fantasy - it's the product of fear and isolation and i don't want to suggest that anyone should turn down the vaccine due to something disturbing that keeps bobbing up from my conspiracy-movie saturated unconscious. Everyone needs to think very carefully and make their own minds up about whether to vax, or not to vax. Despite these fears i may still end up getting it myself... It's a toughie!