Ok go ahead and say the quarantine worked .

In Oregon, they made all the gas stations into "self serve". (Normally all gas stations in Oregon are full service, by law, with no option for self serve.)


I've been having quite a lot of laughs talking with gas station attendants while I fuel my car.

In the default situation, only one person would be touching the gas nozzle all day (or 2 or 3 if there were 2 or 3 staff working.... etc.... but not customers touching it.)

Now 50 or 60 person are touching the same gas nozzle. ...


So ............ the default situation would have spread the disease less.

a reply to: RadioRobert

No matter what, there they are.

People are also forced to have insurance, wear a seat-belt and put their kids in safety seats.

Any way you slice it, people are forced to do certain things.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: RadioRobert

No matter what, there they are.

People are also forced to have insurance, wear a seat-belt and put their kids in safety seats.

Any way you slice it, people are forced to do certain things.

The state does not stop people from driving en masse because some people do illegal things. Nor should they.

a reply to: RadioRobert
But, it does force them to do some things en masse, in the name of safety.

Was this worth it? Everyone saying it isn't, is focusing on the numbers at the beginning of the cycle.

In the last week the numbers, for the US, for CV-19 surpassed the CDC estimate for H1N1 for a whole year.

Maybe, just maybe, there is a reason for the concern? Who's to say this isn't the 21st century's version of the "spanish flu".

a reply to: daskakik

To quote myself,
The government has power to prohibit direct harm.

The government stops speeders and drunk drivers individually with EVIDENCE that direct harm by their specific action is going to make it likely that another be placed in harm's way. It does NOT shut down roads or pull people over en masse because people might speed or might be drunk.

It needs to have a preponderance of evidence to charge you or pull you over. It needs even more evidence to convict you. It does not simply arrest people because they may speed without evidence. Nor does it muzzle people because they might cry out, "fire!" at any moment. Nor does it handcuff people en mass because one of them might spray vials of blood on people someday.

This is not happening here. If you can show someone is a confirmed case and ignoring a doctor's quarantine or that person is deliberately coughing or spitting on food/things/ people, then great. Lock 'em up. You have met the threshold for government action. Those actions are crimes in all fifty states.

Neither the ability of nor process for the government to suspend the rights of citizens appears in the Constitution. Nor does a nebulous threat to 0.1% of the population constitute an emergency if it did.

a reply to: RadioRobert

Seat belt laws and child safety seat laws are preventive laws. People are still forced under threat of fines.

I'm pretty sure emergency powers granted to governors and even POTUS are coded somewhere.

The nebulous threat to 0.1% is just a number you pulled out of the air. Nobody knows just how much of a threat this virus is.

a reply to: daskakik
0.1% would be 327,000+ deaths assuming everyone in the country gets infected. Anyone predicting that? CDC is predicting 55-105 thousand now. Fauci says 60/ I'm skeptical we hit that this year, almost certainly not the highmark.

Seatbelt and childseat laws are based on a premise that direct harm is more likely than not to be caused by the specific action/inaction to a specific individual. If you can prove an individual is more likely than not placing another individual in direct harm, then you don't need a new law. It's already illegal. Go find that guy and prove your case.

I have failed to find the bit in the Constitution that provides the Executive with the ability to infringe the Constitution or Bill of Rights. Perhaps you can find it. I also failed to find the part that grants the Legislative the power to grant those rights to the Executive.

Glug glug mmm kool aid. I guess you aren’t bothered that the initial models we used to scare us all into quarantine were based on false numbers? You completely ignored all of my questions to you...

Do you believe people are always truthful? Why did the models say 250,000 dead Americans now, we are being told 60,000. Don’t say mitigation efforts, those were built into the first models. There’s 0 flu deaths this year, the CDC said the doctors can label a death covid based on suspicion, NOT SCIENCE.

Care to explain your unwavering faith in the talking heads here? They’ve changed the models from 250,000 dead Americans to 60,000 (the same number that died in 2018 from the flu according to the CDC, and we didn’t shut down the economy then.... was that wrong in 2018?). We were told 2 weeks of quarantine over a month ago. Much of the “science” is debated heavily therefore not established fact. Don’t go to the office or run your store, but do get on public transit and wait in breadlines for hours in the rain with other people, some of whom MUST be carrying the virus? DO you just ignore all those facts and PREFER this new way of life?


. a reply to: Navieko

originally posted by: Rob808
It’s quite plain to see looking at these charts (assuming all data is accurate and there’s no manipulation of any kind taking place) that this is not the correct response for such a benign virus.

Have you seen this years flu numbers? Does it surprise you there are 0 flu deaths this year? Is it not worth noting CDC guidelines for reporting covid death allows for “reasonable suspicion” to label a death as from covid? It’s obvious to many there’s reason to ask questions...

a reply to: Navieko

No one gets reported as for dying from the flu. This is all done afterwards as the CDC sorts through the years deaths. The BS flu numbers are one thing that is causing this to not be taken seriously.

a reply to: RadioRobert
The US registered over 10K deaths in one week and if you look at the curve for Italy, worst case scenario, the US is about 3 weeks from reaching the peak deaths per day. I won't make a prediction because there are too many variables that can work for and against the US.

Regardless of the premise upon which laws are based, the fact remains that people are forced en masse under threat of fines to comply.

The constitution and the bill of rights are limits placed/powers granted to the US federal government. It also states "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."

So, if something isn't mentioned in them, it doesn't mean it is off the table at the state level.

a reply to: daskakik

So states can infringe the Bill of Rights if the federal government cannot? That's a novel interpretation...

a reply to: RadioRobert
No, it clearly states that if it is enumerated they cannot.

You said you couldn't find something. The tenth is there but that is pretty vague, isn't it? That is the crux of the problem. So it infers that the people have other rights but without enumerating them, it is worthless.

Now, you can argue that something is illegal/unconstitutional till your fingers fall off, but that isn't going to change the current situation or the fact that people acquiesced.

a reply to: daskakik

None of it makes it right or wise. Especially when they admit they lied to people to manipulate them into compliance

a reply to: RadioRobert
Honestly, I think they are now downplaying to keep people from panicking.

It is odd because they probably thought fear mongering might make people practice social distancing willingly. It didn't and some panicked.

Since that didn't work they flexed some muscle.

At the end of the day you might be "right and wise" but the idea that the american people will oppose these kinds of measures is gone. Maybe it has been gone for some time.

a reply to: asabuvsobelow

No need to say that, less people will die from this than the flu. It has officialy earned thestatus of a gaslighting hoax.

I'll quote an excerpt for you so you can see "the others" plan.

I’m not wishing anyone in particular pain, but the economic crisis to follow the pandemic needs to be painful for everyone if we want real change in our society.

I think it’ll be a great opportunity to rid our nation of the for-profit healthcare, expand social security, and curb the power of corporations. We can become a wonderful country if we force the government to shift its focus from caring about corporations and billionaires to small businesses and the average American.

Keep that in mind.

This economy needs reopened yesterday. And at least a few million need new homes in a blacksite. FCC licenses need yanked.

And where are the armed militias preparing to fight to the death to uphold the first amendment on Easter Sunday?

I think Dollar Vigilante is one of the "real journalism" channels where can to get information, new videos coming allmost every day..

It`s in youtube also, but since YT is being dick , lets just move to another place, we dont need youtube fascist..


Con-ronaFlation! Fed Prints $2.3 trillion, Zimbabwe here we come! Here's how to protect yourself



CooooRona

a reply to: Kenzo

Anytime you suspend production of goods and services and simultaneously introduce faux liquidity, you're begging for inflation. If we're extremely lucky we'll drag ourselves out of this in a couple years. If not, and we get hyperinflation, my kids can use the greenbacks for toilet paper and at least one crisis is solved.

Up to 45,000,000 flu cases a year
~80,000 flu deaths a year

This won't approach those numbers and a lot of people need to pay dearly. Seize their assets to pay what they owe, or seize their person if they can't pay the exorbitant fines.

a reply to: JBurns
People keep posting 80K and 60K deaths a year from flu but according to this page about influenza from the CDC.

Mortality
Number of deaths: 6,515

originally posted by: sligtlyskeptical

originally posted by: Rob808
It’s quite plain to see looking at these charts (assuming all data is accurate and there’s no manipulation of any kind taking place) that this is not the correct response for such a benign virus.

Have you seen this years flu numbers? Does it surprise you there are 0 flu deaths this year? Is it not worth noting CDC guidelines for reporting covid death allows for “reasonable suspicion” to label a death as from covid? It’s obvious to many there’s reason to ask questions...

a reply to: Navieko

No one gets reported as for dying from the flu. This is all done afterwards as the CDC sorts through the years deaths. The BS flu numbers are one thing that is causing this to not be taken seriously.

with all due respect that is not even relevant to the conversation here, It may take a year to get the Flu numbers reported but regardless we still have an accurate count to compare to this sham we are currently witnessing .