Actual BREAKING news: China Admits to Hiding Real Covid-19 Infection Numbers from the World!!

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport

Absolute rubbish! It is a virus! It's not like China made it on purpose!

You sure about that?
After all, they have admitted they were experimenting with the coronavirus in bats and attempting to make a corona that would remain dormant until triggered. I'd call that manufacturing a virus wouldn't you? Their track record on safety isn' t exactly top notch either! This wouldn't be the first time a virus has escaped from a lab in China

a reply to: Jay-morris

Here comes the conspiracies!

a reply to: RudeMarine

I have not heard of one person who actually has this stupid virus and my friends entire family and their friends in NY who are cops haven't either. Not one confirmed case from anyone my family or myself knows all over this country! Nobody!


This is nothing but a power grab, pure and simple.

Oh, that means it does not exist then! lol

a reply to: Jay-morris

Absolutely nothing bought from China lasts as long as a well made product.
Zilch.
Dump them.
The only way.
And yes, it's a sh*thole country where people are scared sh*tless of their govt, people are 're-eductated' if they have wrong think and near slave labour abounds.
But hey, as long as you get yor cheap sh*t from there - what do you care...

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

I think, as far as manufacturing goes, that people are going to have to accept compromises on many levels in order to ensure the redevelopment of the industry. For example, we are going to have to be willing to work with companies to meet environmental compliance in order to speed up factory development (not eliminate standards, just work with people to expedite/cheapen the process).
We are also going to have to accept that some items are meant to last longer, and therefore cost more in the short run. A great way to do this would be to have a cost per use/year/etc. for each item. This is one of the ways we were able to get people to switch to LED lightbulbs, and I think consumers would respond to it on a larger scale.
Last, although people should self-educate, we should work to impress upon people more information about the standards in the country of production. Labor costs are not relevant unless they are put in the context of cost-of-living. For example; green beans should cost less if you are at the farm, as you aren't paying for shipping, packaging, store front overhead, etc. So saying an iPhone costs $1200 in western countries and comparing that to the wages is lost on people. What does a smart phone cost in those areas? I'm guessing less. But maybe instead we could focus on human rights violations, etc. I mean, people boycott entire states in the U.S. over trans rights (or perceived), so why can't we at least highlight in stores those who are actually bad actors.
Of course, this reeks of government involvement, of which I oppose, but if tax dollars are going into the product (i.e. computers/chips/equipment for government buildings), then I definitely think it should be a part of the conversation. It's always been weird to me that people just accept totalitarian regimes in societies because we want their widgets/oil, and if you bring up their flaws, they whataboutism.

a reply to: that1lurker

I've said it once before but I think once this all settles we might find ourselves headed to war. I hope thats not the case, but China really screwed the rest of the world over.

NOt really the worlkd government have had nearly two months to act and did nothing. It was evident there was an issue when they built hopsitals.

It was evidnet there was an issue when S korea exploded and then Itally

ALl the time the western governments did nothing.

China handled the situation very well. Look at the infection rate for western world compared to China. Who has handled it better.

originally posted by: Chance321
Hopefully the US and the rest of the world learned a lesson from this and bring manufacturing back home.

I think that we might learn lessons about certain products, but that free trade in the world seems to come without education. I care less about how much a person is making (because it is relative), and more about pollution, intellectual property theft, standards (China, for example, only seems to get involved if their is bad press).

One area I would definitely like to see the US, for example, step up is generic drug manufacturing. I do believe that 80% of our medicine could be made here, with limited subsidizing for certain medicines. I mean, if only 2,000 people use a drug, but it could be made cheap, then we should incentivize the companies that make larger scale medicines to also produce that drug in order to assure supplies/costs. Being a pro-capitalist, I know that this will require some effort to induce change without massive government takeover, but it can be done. how about streamlining some processes (thereby cutting costs) on one generic in order to get them to produce (expensively) other small batch generics?
Carrot, stick.

The fact that the Chinese have become the worlds major manufacturing hub is the result of our own politicians and industries greed and nothing more, but that's a thread in itself. I personally have had many business dealings with them and quite frankly would rather not. Just don't find them truthful and are manipulative. Been accused of racism just by calling them on their bull#e. Personally I don't trust them or their government to put it all on the table when it shines a light on their true intentions.

originally posted by: FatherLukeDuke
Most of the rest of the world isn't even testing asymptomatics, so I'm not entirely sure how China is that much worse for not reporting them?

Not testing asymptomatic people when you have limited tests (and remember, China's tests are 50-70% wrong) is one thing. In the U.S>, they weren't even testing symptomatic people who weren't seriously ill due to a lack of FDA approved testing kits. A good version of the test kit doesn't even exist yet.
Not reporting people who came up positive, but are not showing any symptoms, is a whole other thing.

Is China saying that they had 80,000 who were hospitalized? Knowing that information here in the U.S. would help us, as our modeling would change, because we are reporting those who test positive, regardless of severity. Just because we were (we are now making more tests per day than anyone, combined) testing less people doesn't mean the numbers we did have were dishonest.

a reply to: ThouArtGod

I am not sure how to respond to you. Let’s take a stab at it.

Ok

You say China should be praised for tackling the virus. Using extreme authoritarianism. Like welding people in buildings. From a virus THEY launched, spread, lied about, and propagated.

If they did not tackle it like they did, thousands more would have died. Look at the soft approach from other countries, hence the reason it's getting worse. As for the lying, if you are talking about when the virus first broke, then thst was the the people who are in charge of that specific area of China. And they were arrested and charged for lying.

Governments in the West have not even implemented simple things like everyone has to wear a mask! And people wonder why it is spreading fast in the West!

They did this to themselves, and to the rest of the world, and lied lied lied, but you think they should be praised for “limiting the spread”, especially considering that we cannot trust any of their numbers, as they are PROVEN LIARS who lie.
There are norms within the disaster response community, and these are people who have blown past every one of them. Using other country’s lies to defend China’s lies is ridiculous, especially when asking us to trust them about a disease they themselves are lying about.


Can I be any clearer?

So basically your evidence that they are Lying about their numbers is that they are proven liars. I will say it again! Are you saying your own government are not proven liars? Or is it just the countries that are not allies that are the evil lying scum?

originally posted by: The2Billies

You can not trust a collectivist society, a far left socialist/communist society to EVER tell the truth to the world. They must protect their collective at all cost. In China there are no individuals as far as the state is concerned and in their culture to lose face is the worst crime. Therefore, the collective must never be wrong, must never make mistakes, must always be right and "good" and the facts must be twisted and twisted until the collective is right and good, even it at the end of the twist it is a bald faced lie.

I think that one of the things that escapes people in whataboutism with democratic republics is that elected societies have other parties that are regularly looking to gain power themselves. They look for the other party to fail/do wrong/etc. and they exploit this. Other than institutionalized deep state actors, if a political party were to screw up this badly, the other party would hang them in a public square. When you have a collectivist state party, they have NO ONE to act as a check or balance. You only have the party. In fact, were it not for capitalist societies exposing their lies, many decisions and actions by those dictatorships would never see the light of day. Does anyone think that the truth of Chernobyl would have ever some out had it not been for western governments?

originally posted by: Halfswede
Watch what they do, not what they say. This is really a straightforward decision for people. You can side with the CCP and believe their nonsense self-serving propaganda and coverup, or you can not believe them, understand they have gotten away with and continue to get away with the exact same thing with their own common people, uigurs, falun gong, tibetans, Christians etc by just putting them away in forced labor camps and working them until they die or need their organs for a high-paying customer.

Although I usually consider the false dichotomy to be one of the worst of the salacious arguments, in this case I completely agree. They are accountable to no one. Period. Therefor, they cannot be trusted.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: ThouArtGod
a reply to: Bluntone22

China is a lot like an ex-girlfriend of mine- I don't trust her, I know that she is secretly working to destroy me, she hates religious people, and nothing she could ever do would shock me at this point.

Oh, and if someone told me that she had created a unique virus in order to kill her grandparents, I would believe them.

So this is basically an anti China thread, mixed in with BS fake news. Well done!

Right on!

I'll bet you still think that the USSR was completely above the board about Chernobyl too.

Exactly. Totalitarian governments cannot be trusted. Most governments cannot be trusted, in fact, but the governments who fear no overthrow are in fact the worst.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: macaronicaesar40

Pop quiz:

How do you test an asymptomatic patient without testing every single person? Because asymptomatic means you have no symptoms meaning you don't know you have it.

That's 350 million test kits and mandatory testing since at this point contact tracing is impossible.

Considering they've run out of testing swabs at some places in the area I'm at and we're no hot spot any means ... how do you propose that happen?

You don't have to test every single person, but you can do randomized testing that will give you better data with which to approximate the infection rate of the general population. Just like polling, you don't have to question the entire population, just a sample.

Unfortunately we can't do that in the U.S. right now because we don't have enough test kits. CDC bungled the rollout of the test kits and we're like a month behind, so they're prioritizing only testing sick people right now. Since that's not random, we're not getting a truly representative sample of the population.

Hopefully that changes once we get our test kit supply up to par so we can update our numbers to something more accurate.

originally posted by: makemap

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: ThouArtGod
a reply to: Bluntone22

China is a lot like an ex-girlfriend of mine- I don't trust her, I know that she is secretly working to destroy me, she hates religious people, and nothing she could ever do would shock me at this point.

Oh, and if someone told me that she had created a unique virus in order to kill her grandparents, I would believe them.

So this is basically an anti China thread, mixed in with BS fake news. Well done!

Yup, but the good thing is that everyone fking ignores is that this China fake numbers thing is what forced WHO/CDC to bring out real numbers of Flu infection and death pandemic. I can't wait til next season flu numbers. Yay

Can keep blaming China all you want but, makes no difference when other side was researching bioweapon from the start. Remember "No testing means less numbers."

I respectfully disagree. We have had real numbers from the Flu in this country for years. A quick google search will show you that we in the U.S. actually track cause of death. Do I think that we might overlook +/- 5-10% due to various complications when people get sick and die? Yes, probably. But this country, if anything, actually lives and dies by statistics, as it often drives monetary and legislative policy.

originally posted by: Rave3n

Better perspective, or simply a Biased one?

though statement quoted above does show good cause for your personal stake in this, it also proves my point about you being a "Glowie"

My Mother is American... and because of your beloved China's bioweapons research and LIES, her life is now in Danger.

so I think my stake in this GIVES ME ALL THE PERSPECTIVE I NEED!
your china is guilty of Organ Harvesting on a Mass SCALE as the UN and WHO has confronted them about this, also lets not forget Tibets misfortune as the hands of your beloved wifeys homeland...
and what about all the Groups of people they have openly tortured and slaughtered in the streets for wanting democracy?

dont try to compare other governments to china...
Even NAZI GERMANY couldnt kill off more people than CCP if they still were in power.

I have seen the Videos of what China did to PACIFIST MONKS.

so DO. NOT. GO. THERE.

or I will start posting links, and then you will see an UPROAR of anti chinese sentiment

And I think that people are acting like we have all had no problems with Chinese Communism all along- like this is a new development- when in reality, most people just turn a blind eye because they seem to think that China's citizens allow their government to be continuously stupid/authoritarian out of a lack of caring. When in reality, the government (CCP) DESTROYS those who oppose their policies within their borders.

originally posted by: RudeMarine
No kidding, how can anyone but a nut or communist defend the Chinese government at this point.

21 million cell phones have stopped being used in China since this virus started. They use their phones for everything! The US based Chinese news site said most just couldn't afford the bill and some got so sick they could care less.

They figured its a good guess that ONE MILLION CHINESE HAVE DIED DUE TO COVID-19!!!

We wont know till the virus is gone and many doctors escape to a western nation to tell the whole truth but the fact that people are now saying the US has the highest infected is pure BS.

I stand by my statements that I have made till this point- I have NO IDEA how many Chinese peoples have died from this virus, but I do know that if they have hidden millions of deaths, we will now within a month, and at that point, God help everyone.

I'm willing to believe that they have lied to a factor of 10, but I am not sure if I wold go into the millions.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Chance321
Hopefully the US and the rest of the world learned a lesson from this and bring manufacturing back home.

Unfortunately, I doubt it.

Just like after 9/11, when people realized we needed to take terrorism seriously, what did that last a few months? Then the bleeding hearts were back to labeling anyone that wanted to get tough on terrorism "Islamophobic" and "racist."

This will be no different. It's glaringly obvious we need to firm up our manufacturing base so we're not at the mercy of China anymore. But in a few months, those same people will be calling anyone advocating for that xenophobic and isolationist. Especially since this is an election year.

I think it all comes down to outcomes. If this is gone in a few months, then yes, people will be called xenophobes. But if it is still here in a year, or if it gets factors worse, then I think that we might see a perrmanat shift in how the media/other party's discuss China.

a reply to: ketsuko

WEll- in the early days of any outbreak, you usually don't have to test everyone. But If it continues, and if it remains a threat, you will see (eventually) capacity reach a point where everyone is tested regularly. But only if it makes economic sense (meaning the threat equals the cost of testing) would we see 321M people tested regularly. Otherwise, in this time, and this close to the outbreak, it is physically impossible, literally, that we could test everyone.

However, if Asymptomatic people are contagious (It is inconclusive) and you KNOW they are positive, then we are CRAZY if we don't report it as an active case.

a reply to: tarifa37

My thought is that I don't trust a single thing that China has to say at this point. Their testing don't work 70% of the time. They have closed off the media. They lied about when it started, and bribed WHO to not report it as a pandemic. They lied about human-to-human transmission. They lied about how many cases they have.

So are they lying about deaths? transmission rates? transmission methods? Are they lying about everything?

If everyone can obviously spot what is happening in this thread in particular, why is anyone playing along and willfully participating? Its not like you can be punished for not replying to people. Just stop replying is all you have to do. Its very easy. You wont beat them, you wont win. They cannot lose at this game. You have already lost because look at what the thread became.