Screw Income Equality

A UBI that goes to every adult citizen is unfair how again? The biggest problem a lot of people have is they have no empathy. Have a child with a disability that requires you to stay home and live off one income? Too bad!! People would rather they also don't get extra cash each month, than see others get "free money."

Tell me this - if every adult could be given a 1k check a month and it had literally no negative financial impact on our country, would you still be against it? I think a lot of you would. The "I earn my money from hard work, so no one else deserves money they don't get from hard work!" mindset is sad to me. Would some people waste the money given them from a UBI? Sure. That doesn't mean you should never do it. There are a lot of cases where extra cash would help those in need.

Think 30 years in the future when a large % of our jobs have become automated - what then? If you can't get a niche job that isn't automated, just screw you then? One day, the goal for mankind should be that people do not HAVE to work their lives away. They can spend time with family, can do things that are creative or inventive or whatever.. and still live a good life. No one lays on their death bed and says "I wish I could have worked more hours in my life."

I seriously don't get some of your mindsets - you think suffering, work, living a paltry life is how life should be for others. Instead of forward thinking - that heaven forbid, people actually enjoy living their lives.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: opethPA

Manual labors make that same sacrifice plus suffer more health problems and typical get worse health insurance.

It used to be there were two paths to success one physical and one mental, now the physical stuff has been turned into brainless monkey work not worth compensation and only the mental work deserves compensation. It's bull# and why people are getting pissed.

Not everyone is a genius so they have to sacrifice their body instead. Right now there's a dedicated effort to gate those who take the physical path often because they have no choice off from success and telling them that it's their fault because you're all gatekeeping success to only the office community.

Office worker get paid better, more often live to enjoy their retirement, and more likely have the money to retire on.

Manual laborers get paid less, rarely live to enjory their retirement, and more than likely don't have enough to retire on when they do make it, especially with their more likely heavier medical bills.

The rate of pay only has to do with supply and demand for their skillset. Nothing more. How hard someone works is totally irrelevant.

If there are a lot of people who can do your job effectively, then you will not make as much money. PERIOD. In addition, if your job is a cost center and not a revenue generator, you will not make as much money. PERIOD.

Ditch diggers are a dime a dozen. It doesn't matter if Joe Ditch Digger worked hard and threw out his back. Tyrone Ditch Digger can easily replace Joe.

On the other hand, Joe Hedgefund has consistently beat the market investing his company's portfolio. He gets paid a lot of money because he makes the company a lot of money. Moreover, they can't easily replace him as it is hard to find other managers with his track record.

Life is not fair.

originally posted by: fleabit
A UBI that goes to every adult citizen is unfair how again? The biggest problem a lot of people have is they have no empathy. Have a child with a disability that requires you to stay home and live off one income? Too bad!! People would rather they also don't get extra cash each month, than see others get "free money."

Tell me this - if every adult could be given a 1k check a month and it had literally no negative financial impact on our country, would you still be against it? I think a lot of you would. The "I earn my money from hard work, so no one else deserves money they don't get from hard work!" mindset is sad to me. Would some people waste the money given them from a UBI? Sure. That doesn't mean you should never do it. There are a lot of cases where extra cash would help those in need.

Think 30 years in the future when a large % of our jobs have become automated - what then? If you can't get a niche job that isn't automated, just screw you then? One day, the goal for mankind should be that people do not HAVE to work their lives away. They can spend time with family, can do things that are creative or inventive or whatever.. and still live a good life. No one lays on their death bed and says "I wish I could have worked more hours in my life."

I seriously don't get some of your mindsets - you think suffering, work, living a paltry life is how life should be for others. Instead of forward thinking - that heaven forbid, people actually enjoy living their lives.

If you gave everyone $1000 a month all it would do is cause inflation. The $1000/month would be practically worthless and we'd still be having the same conversations about how bad some people have it and that it is impossible to live off the UBI, so it needs to be raised.

a reply to: Puppylove

People go into manual labor often because they don't have the smarts for an office job or the finances for college.

Clearly you didn't consider the math skills involved in many construction jobs.
I became an iron worker after putting a number of other trades under my belt.
Some people are built to use their skills for something other than pencil pushing
and would rather be doing something that tests their physical abilities everyday.
And without us you office people would have a hard time keeping your files in
order. Unfortunately some of the people filling those offices have managed to
stagnate our wages for more than forty years. And who is on the top floors of
those buildings? The ones stagnating wages. At one time we had what others
saw they could take. They knew we would keep doing what we loved to do.
What we were born to do. I give you kudos because you are right. Those jobs
are the backbone of everything and the wages should at least moderately
exalt the people doing them. But you can have your water cooler and warm
office coffee. I'll take landing a beam at 45 stories in November any day.

a reply to: Edumakated

Life is not fair, don't try to improve things, just accept it.

If we followed that logic we'd still have slavery.

Hate the life's not fair crap it can be used to excuse any act no matter how psychotic.

a reply to: fleabit

Tell me this - if every adult could be given a 1k check a month and it had literally no negative financial impact on our country,

If by some miracle 1K just rained from the heavens, no I wouldn't blink an eye. Unfortunately we live in the real world
where anything "free" means it is often taken from someone that works, or is more responsible.

a reply to: Edumakated

Only because assholes would raise costs artificially to profit rather than staying the same price and instead getting the same or more profit from increased sales.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: opethPA

Manual labors make that same sacrifice plus suffer more health problems and typical get worse health insurance.

It used to be there were two paths to success one physical and one mental, now the physical stuff has been turned into brainless monkey work not worth compensation and only the mental work deserves compensation. It's bull# and why people are getting pissed.

Not everyone is a genius so they have to sacrifice their body instead. Right now there's a dedicated effort to gate those who take the physical path often because they have no choice off from success and telling them that it's their fault because you're all gatekeeping success to only the office community.

Office worker get paid better, more often live to enjoy their retirement, and more likely have the money to retire on.

Manual laborers get paid less, rarely live to enjory their retirement, and more than likely don't have enough to retire on when they do make it, especially with their more likely heavier medical bills.

Again my argument all along has not been if manual labor types should get paid more then they currently do..
My argument has been that just because you do manual labor doesn't mean you should automatically get paid more then someone who works in an office.

If you can beat me at my job then great, you should get paid more.
If you can't eat me at my job then you shouldn't get paid more regardless of if you work outside or not.

a reply to: opethPA

How do directly compare the two jobs like that, you can't they perform a completely different function.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Edumakated

Life is not fair, don't try to improve things, just accept it.

If we followed that logic we'd still have slavery.

Hate the life's not fair crap it can be used to excuse any act no matter how psychotic.

This has nothing to do with slavery.

You cannot just decree that someone should make more money. No matter how much we may not like it, economics doesn't work that way.

It is one thing to try to improve things, but another to ignore basic laws of economics which often leads to other consequences.

a reply to: Puppylove

No one is truly happy staring at computer for 8 hours in a cubical prison. The only reason people choose that is because it’s familiar. It feels just like school but now you get paid. It’s easy money.

Being out doors and working with your hands is more natural fit for many. We weren’t meant to sit at a desk all day.
Office people get paid more because their job is monotonous and unsatisfying so they get paid more to make sure they stay in their cell.

Remember the old days looking out the window in class wishing to be outside to play.

This Cool video illustrates my point
Death Cab For Cuite - Summer Skin

originally posted by: Nyiah
a reply to: opethPA

To be fair, it's not a matter of what's intellectually harder to smash two brain cells together over, but the fact that hard physical labor tends to wreck the body MUCH faster than pounding paper or a keyboard at a desk does, and thus they're out of the workforce sooner and with bigger health issues than just a wide load hind end from takeout lunches in the cubicle/office.

My husband's the desk jockey today, but when we met, he was in a completely different industry that had enormous physical demands in a very hot and humid climate, and agrees -- strenuous physical jobs deserve more pay than he gets now sitting on his ass in the AC, not the other way around. The BODY pays for the gap there, without enough compensation to make up for the punishing work and shortened work years.

The market is beautiful in a way that it pays by supply and demand.

I am a very small Asian lady, you would not believe the amount of physical labor I could, and did do in my youth.
With the exception of a very few people, almost all young people can do physical work.
It may take a bit to get into shape but they can still do it. This is why the military has boot camp.

Not everyone can do office work. I once had a manager that was an engineer for a major bank. She could not do math to save her soul. Being good at sales is a gift that few have, that's why it chews people up and spits them out.

a reply to: Edumakated

Then we need a better economic system.

I will never accept life's not fair as an excuse for anything controlled by man. The only thing that phrase is acceptable for is things like a #ing tornado destroying your house, or a damn miscarriage.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: opethPA

How do directly compare the two jobs like that, you can't they perform a completely different function.

This is the line in the post that I took umbrage with , "Another thing is a guy working in a nice warm office should not get as much as people working out in the hot sun, the freezing cold, and in the rain and snow. "

BS.

Working in the weather, working outside, grease on your hands , blah blah blah blue collar BS.. If you want to make more then me the switch industries and come try and beat me.

Again, I am not saying that manual labor should not get paid more..they should..Im pretty sure the dude cutting lawns for a living in the hot sun deserves more then $12 an hour . What Im saying is that doing manual labor doesn't mean anything more then someone that does mental labor it just means it's a different choice.

a reply to: bloodymarvelous

I love your post and your example is one of the best I've heard.

But I think we should do our best to make sure that the bottom tier isn't a bad place to be. The top should still be a better place (or else nobody would work hard to get there.) But the bottom doesn't have to be hell on Earth.

Making sure the bottom isn't hell on earth is indeed one of the biggest struggles of our time.

a reply to: Observationalist

I lump factory work in with manual labor. So not everyone I'm talking about gets to work outside.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Edumakated

Only because assholes would raise costs artificially to profit rather than staying the same price and instead getting the same or more profit from increased sales.

No, if there is more money sloshing around then it means the value of the dollar is worth less. As such, when people are given money, they will freely spend it which pushes up the cost of everything. It has nothing to do with greed.

All you have to do is look at school tuition and how much it inflated with the availability of student loans. Money and the lack thereof is what keeps prices in check. When you inject money into a system, it causes prices to rise.

a reply to: JAGStorm

And is the main and only thing most people arguing for that's being fought against tooth and nail.

a reply to: Edumakated

Inflated by greedy predatory assholes that insist on putting their own temporary gains above what's better for society.

a reply to: Observationalist

No one is truly happy staring at computer for 8 hours in a cubical prison. The only reason people choose that is because it’s familiar. It feels just like school but now you get paid. It’s easy money.

You obviously don't know enough nerds/geeks... 8 hours is nuthin...