Romans Made Up Jesus as Wartime Propaganda to Pacify Jews, US Scholar Claims

a reply to: Gothmog

Thats like saying unproven hypothesis mentioned in Encyclopedia Britannica were corrected by MS Windows Encarta

LOL LOL lol





wiki

This became thus the first Quran in written form. The Quran was sent by God to Prophet Muhammad ﷺ through angel Gabriel within 23 years from the beginning of the message of Prophet Muhammad ﷺ up to his death. This was from around 611 AD to around 633 AD

a reply to: SeaWorthy

It isn’t only that...

The Torah/Old Testament says repeatedly, literally in first person... no innuendo, unambiguously straight from “father to sons”.. like a couple thousand times “obey my laws..”


“If your ever curious about what to do... obey my laws.”


“If someone ever tries to tell you not to follow my laws, they are lying... follow my laws”

“If anyone ever tries to change my laws... don’t listen.. obey my laws..”

“No matter what happens, until the end of time.. obey my laws.. “

So when Jesus/Christians shows up and say “hey, god changed the laws.. “

Jews are rightfully like .... “doubtful..”


While ONLY Christians see ANY reference to a son of god , and for damn sure doesn’t mention belief in that son being the be all end all for salvation...

As a non-Christian I find it hilarious that anyone would deny that there is a war on Christianity. There is a clear war on Christians and has been for decades. Hell, I used to be anti-Christian back in my college days and then I started feeling sorry for them because they suffer so much oppression from Progressives and a double standard from the media.

originally posted by: JustJohnny
a reply to: SeaWorthy

A) were they roman Christians , or some other group who converted to Christianity, or were they Jewish converts???


Because the topic only concerns Jewish converts not other Christians..


B) I’m not sure what you mean by the historical and biblical scholars ...


All the biblical (Christians) believe the modern KJV interpretation, basically.. the historical and critical scholars do not..

The critical and historical consensus is that every surviving biblical text except for maybe mark was written by Roman Christians for roman Christians, no Jews involved

You're One of those who tells me what you think but have no links. Clearly you know Paul was a Jew, Jesus was a Jew he followed all Jewish laws and celebrated the Jewish holidays. All of the writers quote from the Jewish texts.

His conception was prophesied in Isaiah 7:14 and referred to in Matthew: “The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel, which means ‘God with us’ ” (1:23).

His birth in Bethlehem was foretold by the prophet Micah in chapter 5, verse 2, “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times,” and quoted in Matthew 2:6.

Most scholars agree that the writers of the New Testament were Jewish (with the possible exception of Luke). “Most of the writers of the various parts were Jews, and the writings were designed for Jewish readers who had embraced the Christian faith.

The authors drew more or less from contemporary Jewish ideas, ethics, legends, parables and sayings.”1 The New Testament writers were not rebellious radicals bent on destroying Judaism. They worshiped regularly in the Temple.2 They were well versed in the Jewish Scriptures as demonstrated by their numerous references to the prophecies and practices of the Hebrew Scriptures.

The most prolific New Testament writer, Paul, wrote almost half of the 27 New Testament books. His Jewish background is indisputable. He was a son of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin,3 and a Pharisee.4 The Jewish scholar Professor Samuel Sandmel of Hebrew Union College observes that Paul the Jew “was at home in the Bible and in the practice of expounding it; he shared the group-feeling of Jews, and he was, from his own standpoint, unreservedly loyal to Judaism.”5

Jewish scholar Alan F. Segal admits, “However much I may disagree with Paul, my reading accedes to the authenticity of Paul’s conversion experience. Paul considered himself part of a new Jewish sect and hoped to convince both fellow Christians and Jews of his vision of redemption.”6

jewsforjesus.org...

I find no evidence for this
"All the biblical (Christians) believe the modern KJV interpretation, basically.. the historical and critical scholars do not.. "
But even it it were true what difference does it make what the scholars believe is the best translation.How many bible translations have you read? I endeavored to read every single one available in our local library for starters.

I know religion is also a pretty active topic but...

Religious topics and attacks against those of faith always seem to rise when news comes out there are #ty people doing #ty things.

I.e. Epstein...

You can't go silly nilly through this world and doing horrible stuff and not pay the price one way or another.

originally posted by: JustJohnny
a reply to: SeaWorthy

It isn’t only that...

The Torah/Old Testament says repeatedly, literally in first person... no innuendo, unambiguously straight from “father to sons”.. like a couple thousand times “obey my laws..”


“If your ever curious about what to do... obey my laws.”


“If someone ever tries to tell you not to follow my laws, they are lying... follow my laws”

“If anyone ever tries to change my laws... don’t listen.. obey my laws..”

“No matter what happens, until the end of time.. obey my laws.. “

So when Jesus/Christians shows up and say “hey, god changed the laws.. “

Jews are rightfully like .... “doubtful..”


While ONLY Christians see ANY reference to a son of god , and for damn sure doesn’t mention belief in that son being the be all end all for salvation...

“Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved.

So if you ignore the least commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God’s laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. But I warn you—unless your righteousness is better than the righteousness of the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven!” — MATTHEW 5:17-20

a reply to: JustJohnny

For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one, and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, (Ephesians 2:14–15) Christ forever broke down (the Greek aorist tense signifies completed action) every dividing wall by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances.

When Jesus died on the cross He abolished every barrier between man and God and between man and his fellow man. The greatest barrier between Jew and Gentile was the ceremonial law, the Law of commandments contained in ordinances. The feasts, sacrifices, offerings, laws of cleanliness and purification, and all other such distinctive outward commandments for the unique separation of Israel from the nations were abolished.

www.gty.org...

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: Gothmog

Thats like saying unproven hypothesis mentioned in Encyclopedia Britannica were corrected by MS Windows Encarta

LOL LOL lol





wiki

This became thus the first Quran in written form. The Quran was sent by God to Prophet Muhammad ﷺ through angel Gabriel within 23 years from the beginning of the message of Prophet Muhammad ﷺ up to his death. This was from around 611 AD to around 633 AD

You do realize Islam goes back to Ishmael and Father Abraham , yes ?
Facepalm is all on you...

a reply to: gortex

mate you need to search further through history
and remember
GOD does not take prisoners

a reply to: JustJohnny

While ONLY Christians see ANY reference to a son of god , and for damn sure doesn’t mention belief in that son being the be all end all for salvation...

What? You're not making any sense, making it clear that you don't understand the Christian religion at all.

a reply to: Gothmog

You do realize Islam goes back to Ishmael and Father Abraham , yes ?

You do realize Muhammad was circa 570 AD. Christianity not formalized till way into the 3 & 4th century

Abraham was around 1813 BCE and is claimed by the 3 faiths as a patriarch.

So in between all those thousands of years it was an oral tradition.

Double facepalm back at you. Try to keep up

www.dailysabah.com...

the journey of the Quran, which began to be revealed to Prophet Muhammad during the month of Ramadan in 610, in its original form to the present day is a characteristic that none of the previous sacred books have.

a reply to: pronto

Was that the baal/jehovah/lord/el shaddai etc of the Old Testament. Pretty bloodthirsty warmonger. Even allowed "his special people" the spoils of war, like taking as brides foreign females and "putting all others to the sword"

a reply to: Gothmog "You do realize Islam goes back to Ishmael and Father Abraham , yes ?
Facepalm is all on you... "

Islam also claims that even though Mohammed died in Arabia, he flew to heaven from Jerusalem riding a white horse.

Muslims `CLAIM' their religion goes back to Abraham. They have done everything to legitimize their bloodthirsty god.

originally posted by: lakenheath24
If true...that was some damned fine marketing. I mean how many slogans have lasted 2000 years! And i am no jewish expert but i am pretty sure hardcore jews dont believe jesus was the messiah.

I would say what hardcore religious Jews think about Jesus and Mary but it would probably get me a posting ban or even a permanent ban.

a reply to: 727Sky

All religions are man made. God is fictional.

a reply to: 727Sky

Any reading of Isaiah 53, only ONE of the many Old testament prophecies, completely blows away any ridiculous notion that Jesus Christ was made up or is not the Messiah.

"1 Who would have believed what we just heard? When was the Lord’s power revealed through him?
2 He sprouted up like a twig before God, like a root out of parched soil; he had no stately form or majesty that might catch our attention, no special appearance that we should want to follow him.
3 He was despised and rejected by people, one who experienced pain and was acquainted with illness; people hid their faces from him; he was despised, and we considered him insignificant.
4 But he lifted up our illnesses, he carried our pain; even though we thought he was being punished, attacked by God, and afflicted for something he had done.
5 He was wounded because of our rebellious deeds, crushed because of our sins; he endured punishment that made us well; because of his wounds we have been healed.
6 All of us had wandered off like sheep; each of us had strayed off on his own path, but the Lord caused the sin of all of us to attack him.
7 He was treated harshly and afflicted, but he did not even open his mouth. Like a lamb led to the slaughtering block, like a sheep silent before her shearers, he did not even open his mouth.
8 He was led away after an unjust trial— but who even cared? Indeed, he was cut off from the land of the living; because of the rebellion of his own people he was wounded.
9 They intended to bury him with criminals, but he ended up in a rich man’s tomb, because he had committed no violent deeds, nor had he spoken deceitfully.
10 Though the Lord desired to crush him and make him ill, once restitution is made, he will see descendants and enjoy long life, and the Lord’s purpose will be accomplished through him.
11 Having suffered, he will reflect on his work, he will be satisfied when he understands what he has done. “My servant will acquit many, for he carried their sins.
12 So I will assign him a portion with the multitudes, he will divide the spoils of victory with the powerful, because he willingly submitted to death and was numbered with the rebels, when he lifted up the sin of many and intervened on behalf of the rebels.” Isaiah 53 NET Bible.

The Birth, life, Death, and Resurrection of Jesus Christ matches this to a tee. Nothing is missing. Therefore the Bible " Moreover, we possess the prophetic word as an altogether reliable thing. You do well if you pay attention to this as you would to a light shining in a murky place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts." 2 Peter 1:19 NET Bible.

a reply to: SeaWorthy

Bart Erhman is the preeminent critical textual New Testament scholar on the planet.. and he does plenty of speeches and debates , often in and at the request of churches..

So there is no shortage of YouTube videos of and other Critical NT scholars..


If you are actually interested I can provide links, but googling his name will pull up countless lectures.






B) additions are changes lol... obviously.

Plus just because Jesus said that in one verse, doesn’t mean the Bible doesn’t contradict that constantly..

PS.. is that Mark??
Because I specifically said every book that covers the life of Jesus EXCEPT maybe mark was written by roman Christians later..


In Mark the romans were the bad guys...

By John the Jews are...


Because the gospels are 4 different stories that do not agree with each other..

a reply to: SeaWorthy

So when Jesus ABOLISHED every barrier to god... that isn’t by definition changing the laws?!?

Lol


And you still think Jews are crazy because they didn’t buy it..


How does that gel with 2,000 times god saying “I am never changing the laws, don’t believe anyone who tells you otherwise!”

a reply to: SeaWorthy

Paul never met Jesus...

Paul’s accounts are all from “visions” he claimed to have had later.. years after his death..



Wanna try again lol????


The gospels are the only books that claim to be written by actual witnesses to the life of Jesus..

Everything else is “I had a dream about!”

Lol

Interesting theory. There is plenty of evidence to suggest Jesus never existed.