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Romans Made Up Jesus as Wartime Propaganda to Pacify Jews, US Scholar Claims
page: 2share:
a reply to: trollz
So Jesus did not exist, or his parents, his brothers and sister, his cousin John the Baptist, the 12 apostles. Do I need to expand? Maybe Caesar Nero who fed Christians to lions as he ate his dinner?
Looking for Jesus and you will not find him. Look for Yeshua bar Joseph (Jesus the Christ) and he is easily found.
Denying Jesus and you would have to deny all those I mention above and there is plenty of proof except for those who refuse to believe because if he did exist they would have to change their open and hidden lifestyles. Non believers have no guilt for their open and hidden sins because they do not believe in Jesus or the teachings of the bible.
So Jesus did not exist, or his parents, his brothers and sister, his cousin John the Baptist, the 12 apostles. Do I need to expand? Maybe Caesar Nero who fed Christians to lions as he ate his dinner?
Looking for Jesus and you will not find him. Look for Yeshua bar Joseph (Jesus the Christ) and he is easily found.
Denying Jesus and you would have to deny all those I mention above and there is plenty of proof except for those who refuse to believe because if he did exist they would have to change their open and hidden lifestyles. Non believers have no guilt for their open and hidden sins because they do not believe in Jesus or the teachings of the bible.
edit on 13-7-2019 by DeathSlayer because: (no reason given)
a reply to: JDmOKI
Curious that so many spend so much time and energy and emotion trying to disprove Christianity in order to prove their own faith... because that's what atheism is. Just their beliefs.
In many ways, I've always thought the story in the Talmud about the Roman guard Pantera being Jesus' father by rape may be the most significant proof of Jesus' existence. It was common for the Semitic peoples to write their enemies (or other undesirables) out of history. Just obliterate any mention of them, and therefore any respect or glory.
Apparently that wasn't working, hence the need to tarnish the story via the Talmud.
Christians wrote about him but the Roman's and jews didnt hmmmmm I wonder why.
Stupid atheist narratives
Curious that so many spend so much time and energy and emotion trying to disprove Christianity in order to prove their own faith... because that's what atheism is. Just their beliefs.
In many ways, I've always thought the story in the Talmud about the Roman guard Pantera being Jesus' father by rape may be the most significant proof of Jesus' existence. It was common for the Semitic peoples to write their enemies (or other undesirables) out of history. Just obliterate any mention of them, and therefore any respect or glory.
Apparently that wasn't working, hence the need to tarnish the story via the Talmud.
a reply to: 727Sky
This is nothing new from Atwill although I agree with his premise of:
1) Roman propaganda to quell uprisings, those who turn the other cheek will be rewarded in the afterlife.
2)
Its a 2005 old book
en.wikipedia.org...
Every few years he does the rounds probably fro the entrance fee of his book sales/signing "sessions"
www.independent.co.uk... html
Thursday 10 October 2013 09:46
Of particular note is that it explains how especially in the U.S., it is used to create support for war in the Middle East.
This is nothing new from Atwill although I agree with his premise of:
1) Roman propaganda to quell uprisings, those who turn the other cheek will be rewarded in the afterlife.
2)
was invented as a system of mind control to enslave the poor.
Its a 2005 old book
en.wikipedia.org...
Every few years he does the rounds probably fro the entrance fee of his book sales/signing "sessions"
www.independent.co.uk... html
Thursday 10 October 2013 09:46
Of particular note is that it explains how especially in the U.S., it is used to create support for war in the Middle East.
originally posted by: Allaroundyou
originally posted by: Trueman
a reply to: 727Sky
Created by Romans to pacify Jews ???
Nobody can pacify Jews. Didn't work. Jews got him killed. What a dumb theory.
BWAHAHAHA no you are wrong sir.
Him trying to overthrow a government is what got him killed.
History bro
I'm not wrong. Jews made Romans kill Jesus. Romans said : but, but...., al right.
3 days later He came back to play Peek a Boo with the followers. Then Romans got converted and whole empire went down.
Jesus watched all that part from the clouds eating popcorn. He just can't die, He won.
originally posted by: DeathSlayer
a reply to: trollz
Looking for Jesus and you will not find him. Look for Yeshua bar Joseph (Jesus the Christ) and he is easily found.
Alright... So when was he born? Do you know?
a reply to: Deetermined
Romans ran a beta-Jesus in a small market (Bethlehem) at first then did a rewrite on later editions.
What we see is Jesus v 2.0
Romans ran a beta-Jesus in a small market (Bethlehem) at first then did a rewrite on later editions.
What we see is Jesus v 2.0
There was a thread on this a few months ago, with a link to the very interesting video/doco.
The research was done by a scholar theologian, one who studies the bible.
Basically it all makes sense, when taken into context of 2000 years ago.
In modern day brainwashed religious indoctrinated folk, it is Heresy.
Basically, what he says is, that the "Christian" myth, was exploited by a Jewish scholar 60 or so years after the "Jesus" rumours. That scholar was Josephus the Jew....who worked for the Romans.
Modern Christian fanatics forget that Rome was at war with the Jews, that Jerusalem was sacked by the Romans, and was under Roman Law and control...............much like the USA does to Middle East countries now.
The Romans went out of there way to destroy the Jewish Religion, destroying as much of the false myths as possible, other than the dead sea scrolls, that were hidden by some rabbis....apparently.
It was law, as the conqueror, the Victorious, the Bosses, that Romans forced the Jews to erect Statues of Caesar in all Jew Temples, and places of worship, to be considered a Deity, to be worshipped.
Unfortunately the Jews somewhat rebelled at times, and produced many Messiahs/Warriors to lead them, but alas were overrun.
As the Romans themselves were stretched, what with Britannia, Germania, Gaul, North Africa, etc etc, the Jews were a pain.
At the time of the Flavian Dynasty, a plan was hatched to compose a story.....in Greek!!, that told of the mythical "Christos", as the saviour of the Jews, BUT at the same time, loyal to the Roman Empire, and pay his taxes etc etc, of course, making the Jewish Religion and people, out as the bad guys in all the deal.
Hence the Flavians employed a Jew Scholar, payed well, to make up a story.........called Christianity. The authors name was Josephus.
As the story was backdated of course.......the "Second" coming of Christ was suppose to occur around 40-50 years after his "Death"........Which just happened to be around the time of the Flavian Dynasty.
The "Father and his Son" were in reference to big daddy Flavian, and his Son little Flavian.....not the mythical sky fairy.
As, by this time, Caesar's statues had been replaced by the Flavians statues in Jewish temples....the Father and Son.
Of Course, reading these "Gospels", the "Christians" became helpless morons, and with Constantine taking over the Christian religion (but still praying to Jupiter, Venus, Mars and all the other Roman Gods).........Rome won...
And as it is today.....the biggest oldest money spinner in the World.....the ROMAN Catholic Church, and all its infantile offshoots, like Protestants, Mormons, etc etc....
Peace be with you all.
The research was done by a scholar theologian, one who studies the bible.
Basically it all makes sense, when taken into context of 2000 years ago.
In modern day brainwashed religious indoctrinated folk, it is Heresy.
Basically, what he says is, that the "Christian" myth, was exploited by a Jewish scholar 60 or so years after the "Jesus" rumours. That scholar was Josephus the Jew....who worked for the Romans.
Modern Christian fanatics forget that Rome was at war with the Jews, that Jerusalem was sacked by the Romans, and was under Roman Law and control...............much like the USA does to Middle East countries now.
The Romans went out of there way to destroy the Jewish Religion, destroying as much of the false myths as possible, other than the dead sea scrolls, that were hidden by some rabbis....apparently.
It was law, as the conqueror, the Victorious, the Bosses, that Romans forced the Jews to erect Statues of Caesar in all Jew Temples, and places of worship, to be considered a Deity, to be worshipped.
Unfortunately the Jews somewhat rebelled at times, and produced many Messiahs/Warriors to lead them, but alas were overrun.
As the Romans themselves were stretched, what with Britannia, Germania, Gaul, North Africa, etc etc, the Jews were a pain.
At the time of the Flavian Dynasty, a plan was hatched to compose a story.....in Greek!!, that told of the mythical "Christos", as the saviour of the Jews, BUT at the same time, loyal to the Roman Empire, and pay his taxes etc etc, of course, making the Jewish Religion and people, out as the bad guys in all the deal.
Hence the Flavians employed a Jew Scholar, payed well, to make up a story.........called Christianity. The authors name was Josephus.
As the story was backdated of course.......the "Second" coming of Christ was suppose to occur around 40-50 years after his "Death"........Which just happened to be around the time of the Flavian Dynasty.
The "Father and his Son" were in reference to big daddy Flavian, and his Son little Flavian.....not the mythical sky fairy.
As, by this time, Caesar's statues had been replaced by the Flavians statues in Jewish temples....the Father and Son.
Of Course, reading these "Gospels", the "Christians" became helpless morons, and with Constantine taking over the Christian religion (but still praying to Jupiter, Venus, Mars and all the other Roman Gods).........Rome won...
And as it is today.....the biggest oldest money spinner in the World.....the ROMAN Catholic Church, and all its infantile offshoots, like Protestants, Mormons, etc etc....
Peace be with you all.
This has been discussed before — in one of the most popular threads on ATS.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Historical jesus is real, theres been many studies that lead to the same conclusion but since he was an enemy of the roman empire as a whole they
cleared him from written record.
But theres been many suggestions and archaeological finds that show since the Roman's allowed all sorts of religions to be practiced christianity was a sort of underground cult and had symbols like the fish and the T or cross. The account of jesus and the money changers is also a good example of how he also was going against the Jewish system at the time. Who ever wrote the account of the money changers in the bible twisted it into an anti jewish narrative.
Who ever jesus was he was more of s revolutionary hippy who had all sorts of powerful people against him but had a huge following.
But theres been many suggestions and archaeological finds that show since the Roman's allowed all sorts of religions to be practiced christianity was a sort of underground cult and had symbols like the fish and the T or cross. The account of jesus and the money changers is also a good example of how he also was going against the Jewish system at the time. Who ever wrote the account of the money changers in the bible twisted it into an anti jewish narrative.
Who ever jesus was he was more of s revolutionary hippy who had all sorts of powerful people against him but had a huge following.
I don't think that Jesus was made up by the Romans. I am much more inclined to the Mystery Religion Theory. I also do not believe their is any
historical references for Jesus. The Josephus account is probably fraud. Here are a couple of links that explain it better than I could.
Josephus on Jesus
Flavius Josephus: How History is Doctored
A quote:
Josephus on Jesus
Flavius Josephus: How History is Doctored
A quote:
Bishop Eusebius, that great Church propagandist and self-confessed liar-for-god, was the first person known to have quoted this paragraph of Josephus, about the year 340 AD. This was after the Christians had become the custodians of religious correctness.
a reply to: DeathSlayer
That's some guilt tripping of the non believers, I believe in some of the Bible's teachings, I believe that the image of Jesus is good regardless of him being a construct or a fact.
I ain't changing a thing for Christianity or Christians, why do you think Christianity is the only way for true acceptance?
You're basically weaponizing religion.
because if he did exist they would have to change their open and hidden lifestyles. Non believers have no guilt for their open and hidden sins because they do not believe in Jesus or the teachings of the bible.
That's some guilt tripping of the non believers, I believe in some of the Bible's teachings, I believe that the image of Jesus is good regardless of him being a construct or a fact.
I ain't changing a thing for Christianity or Christians, why do you think Christianity is the only way for true acceptance?
You're basically weaponizing religion.
originally posted by: RAY1990
a reply to: DeathSlayer
because if he did exist they would have to change their open and hidden lifestyles. Non believers have no guilt for their open and hidden sins because they do not believe in Jesus or the teachings of the bible.
That's some guilt tripping of the non believers, I believe in some of the Bible's teachings, I believe that the image of Jesus is good regardless of him being a construct or a fact.
I ain't changing a thing for Christianity or Christians, why do you think Christianity is the only way for true acceptance?
You're basically weaponizing religion.
That is the problem I have with a lot of organized religion. They believe their way is the only acceptable way.
The bible teaches many valyable lessons, by which to live life, but due to societal differences of the time, it also has its shortcomings. Misogyny would be an example of this.
Personally, I have a hard time accepting any religion that would condemn hundreds of millions of others, simply because they follow
a different path.
Flavius Josephus was a Jewish general who took part in the Jewish Revolt (against Rome) in 66-70 AD. He was captured by the Romans under
circumstances that are not entirely trustworthy (he may have turned himself in, etc). To keep himself alive, he wrote a history of the Jewish people
in several different books.
Those books are a treasure-trove of what Jewish people thought of their own place in history. The text mentions Jesus in two places. This would be 60 years after Jesus' crucifixion; and since books were copied by hand, there are some variations in the texts. Josephus wasn't a Christian, and fits Jesus death into the declining relations between the Jewish leadership and Rome.
There is a question of how authentic the two passages are. Most middle eastern scholars are confident that at least one of the two references in "Antiquities of the Jews" was written by Josephus or his immediate secretary.
Bertrand Russell used to point out that the copies of Josephus' works that we now have all come from medieval (Christian) monasteries, and so were probably embellished by the Christians who copied them. So Russel (a leading atheist of his day, sort of a Richard Dawkins character) discounted the two primary contemporary sources about Jesus. Russell argued that there was no "unbiased" proof of Jesus until about 150 years after his death.
In the 70's, someone pointed out that those same ~10 monasteries are also the same sources for all of our contemporary writings about .... Julius Caesar. Our copies of "Gaulic Wars" and Caesar's other works are also the same monasteries that have a copy of Josephus. And there are no statues of Caesar from his lifetime, and he didn't appear on any roman coins until more than 2 hundred years after his supposed death.
So, the argument has been made that it is almost impossible to prove that the average celebrity in the classical world was an actual historical person. And that there is about as much evidence that Julius Caesar was a historical person as there is for Jesus of Nazareth. One of the primary "outside sources" on Caesar actually happens to be.... Josephus' "antiquities of the Jews"....
Despite the scholar that sparked this thread, There are number of sources from the 2nd century that mention Jesus and the early christians. Tacitus, Seutonius, and Pliny the Younger all wrote about the early Christians and their leader, Chrestus ("anointed" in Greek). None of these authors liked Christianity, because they saw it as a religion of immigrants and the poor that subverted the good roman values of their own senatorial class. you can learn a lot about a movement by studying its enemies.
Articles like the source for this thread are preying on the fact that most readers don't know anything about classical literature, and so when they say "there are no contemporary records about Jesus", it will be taken as gospel.
There ARE near contemporary records of Jesus the man and leader. As many and as good, and as contemporaneous, as those for Julius Caesar.
Those books are a treasure-trove of what Jewish people thought of their own place in history. The text mentions Jesus in two places. This would be 60 years after Jesus' crucifixion; and since books were copied by hand, there are some variations in the texts. Josephus wasn't a Christian, and fits Jesus death into the declining relations between the Jewish leadership and Rome.
There is a question of how authentic the two passages are. Most middle eastern scholars are confident that at least one of the two references in "Antiquities of the Jews" was written by Josephus or his immediate secretary.
Bertrand Russell used to point out that the copies of Josephus' works that we now have all come from medieval (Christian) monasteries, and so were probably embellished by the Christians who copied them. So Russel (a leading atheist of his day, sort of a Richard Dawkins character) discounted the two primary contemporary sources about Jesus. Russell argued that there was no "unbiased" proof of Jesus until about 150 years after his death.
In the 70's, someone pointed out that those same ~10 monasteries are also the same sources for all of our contemporary writings about .... Julius Caesar. Our copies of "Gaulic Wars" and Caesar's other works are also the same monasteries that have a copy of Josephus. And there are no statues of Caesar from his lifetime, and he didn't appear on any roman coins until more than 2 hundred years after his supposed death.
So, the argument has been made that it is almost impossible to prove that the average celebrity in the classical world was an actual historical person. And that there is about as much evidence that Julius Caesar was a historical person as there is for Jesus of Nazareth. One of the primary "outside sources" on Caesar actually happens to be.... Josephus' "antiquities of the Jews"....
Despite the scholar that sparked this thread, There are number of sources from the 2nd century that mention Jesus and the early christians. Tacitus, Seutonius, and Pliny the Younger all wrote about the early Christians and their leader, Chrestus ("anointed" in Greek). None of these authors liked Christianity, because they saw it as a religion of immigrants and the poor that subverted the good roman values of their own senatorial class. you can learn a lot about a movement by studying its enemies.
Articles like the source for this thread are preying on the fact that most readers don't know anything about classical literature, and so when they say "there are no contemporary records about Jesus", it will be taken as gospel.
There ARE near contemporary records of Jesus the man and leader. As many and as good, and as contemporaneous, as those for Julius Caesar.
edit on 13-7-2019 by Graysen because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: 727Sky
I have never heard this theory before as I assume many of you have not heard it either.
He purported that the Romans fabricated the story of Jesus Christ sometime after the Jewish revolt of 66-73 A.D., which came to be the first of three major rebellions.
I came to a similar finding/conclusion decades ago. Couple what we're discussing with the machinations of the Council of Nicaea under the Roman Emperor Constantine. Hundreds of years later and 'they' are still trying to stomp it out.
My thoughts: The first indications of a Jewish Messiah appear in the historical record some 40 years after His death. What was the life expectancy of anyone 2K+ years ago. I mean ... people walked to get where they were going back then. You're going to tell me that there was some 'common knowledge' of JC throughout the land.
It just didn't happen. The Romans made most of it (the Bible) up, changed around or erased what they didn't like, made people forget. Too bad that they didn't/couldn't get rid of it all.
The Pagans had it right. They communed with God/Gods. They were just bad at keeping/sustaining written records of what they learned. I hate to say it, but Mohammad had it right too. He _did_ meet his God in that cave.
One of these days, someone else is going to have a long 'chat' with God and write down what God wants us to know. They are with us and They do things according to Their own will. All we have to do is be ready to hear when spoken to.
originally posted by: KKLOCO
This has been discussed before — in one of the most popular threads on ATS.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Nice!! Make ATS Great Again
Will have to spend some time on this one - 219 Pages and 607 Flags!!
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