Chat Room seeds of discontent: Levitationjunkie, ColdAnger, etc...

Well it's a human nature thing, everyone likes to control everyone else.. So when a "new" leader comes to play, they always change things the way they like..

I think things will get out of control this way... pleace give me back ATS v 1.0 even if the name calling dude's are posting... but I love freedom to do whatever I want to do... and not being restricted because someone think that's better,, I'm sorry but I'm being honest !

Cheers...

Ok maybe this is a wrong reply on this thread, but I don't like this "police control" direction ATS is going...

Simon ? Bring back the old style !

Well being 100% honest (as always), i think sometimes this board gets out of control, and i don�t mean it just for the mods-admins, i also mean it for the users.
For example, i remember once, i posted the thread
"66 Questions and answers about the holocaust"

And it got deleted by you william, u sent me a u2u afterwards, telling me to not repost that thread, but not ANY reason for the deletion.
So i sent u 3 u2u asking the "WHY" of the deletion, because i got no anwser from you i did repost it,
so then i got a warning, and my thread again gone, so i sent u another 3 u2u to ask u again why, and at the end i get this:

"has been removed.

Several members will not tolerate such revisionist idiocy.

Please don't repost."

My question to u , is why u decide for the users, instead of letting them decide? is not that freedom of speech?
or u can decide what can be better for a board which is full of different ideals everywhere and so on?

Another answer from William the same day

"There are questions... and there is nonsense.

Idiot rantings about the validity of that moment in history are crap.

My father was among the first alied forces to find Dachau... there is no doubt."

So at that moment, what made u change was your experience, or what your father told u, u are not suposed to be in a side william, as mods or admins, u have to be Neutral and objective, and u weren�t on that moment.
As we all know that is a conspiracy site, how the hell something is gonna get censored by it�s contents?
Sarcastic isn�t ?
Not just that but the last thing:

"Questions about the validity of the holocaust are the worst kind of revisionist crap and have previously been removed. There is no doubt.

In addition, topics beginning that way always end bad."

Well we question here everything william, and u know it better than anyone else becuase u have to read most of it, more than any member i would say. But it doesn�t give u the right to decide for all the members what is and what is not, do u know how many stupid thread are in this forum not related with conspiracy?
Dozens....

And not only that william, i got the warning, no problem, i normally don�t create troubles so i did not get another along with it, but what pisses me off, is that Zion told me that the ambient due to my "israeli-arab" conversations threads and so on i was creating a bad ambient in this board, and that i was being watched by the STaff members, that i should stop with it, keep cool
and not create big disscussions.
So what is this forum all about, there is right wings, left wings, anarchists, liberals, democrats, people all over the world with different ideals and ways to see stuff...
To moderate a world wide web of conspiracy u can�t decide what is "crap" and what not, that will be decided by the users, staff is there to keep order, and as far as i know talk about whatever matter u want, u keep the respect between each other, and u can have a thread of 3000 posts, just keep the respect, that is the only thing i see here that sometimes gets lost.


Here i got the last one from Up


Your posts were allmost ok, until I see your revisionist post. That's where I beging to think about you as a possible neo-nazi. Also, I know Muslim nations have been in the past ( and still nowadays ) a nazis refuge ( Syria, Egypt and Lybia especially ).

Be more neutral, and you'll be more quite. If you don't stay quite ( even just a few ), you'll do an error and you'll be warned, may be banned if it's a big mistake.

At the end, I'm now a mod and I have to moderate.It mean that I've to deal with ATS users by helping them to don't cross the line. And I think you are ready to cross it. So, my previous u2u.

I don't want to warn you, and more important, I don't have to be in the position where I would have to vote yes or no for your bannishment. I think ( tell me if I'm wrong ) that I'm pretty cool and that I don't over use of my mega-powers mod . I just don't want to have to use them, but you are pushing me to use them.

Just stay a little bit cool CA. That's what I ask you. Is it so hard to do ?

Thanks.

UP.


As u can see there is terms of "Cross the line", but i didn�t insult anyone, i posted sources of info, a place a thread to disscuss, as we do always, there is no difference talking about arabs, than NWO, or bush, is all a matter of questioning the truth, or the version we get normally from the media.
But what i refer to, up says here that or i stay neutral and quiet, or i will get banned or warned, is that really objective?
So if somebody is a left wing, cannot express his feelings because they are not neutral? Neutral must be who moderates, not the users, we come here to change opinions, and as that many more...


And that is the previous post of UP

"Hello CA.

I don't know if you are really anti-jews or not, but I think you're not neutral. You're standing up too much and more often for the Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims.

If I was you, I would take a look to what Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims did and are still doing to Israel, and I would do a post on that matter.

I mean, just try to be a little bit neutral.

Also, try to find a new subject where there is no Jews and Palestinians involved.

I know you're not an idiot, and you do your pro-Palestinians topic on purpose.I just don't know what is the purpose. But becarefull in what you look and want. May be you'll not like what you'll find.

We can have many discussion on many matters ( that's the board purpose after all ), but some peoples are seeing you as a pro-nazis/anti-jews. May be they wrong, but it seem that's what you're looking for.

Do an effort please.

Thanks."

here he says that why the purpose of being pro-palestinian (while i posted on my posts why), why not stay neutral (but then again 2 cannot disscuss if they are not in to extremes), as there is patriots there is anarchists....
I may not like what i�d find, i don�t know what he ment by that...

and If after all the times i said, i hate nazis, i am not anti-semitist, stills people seeing me as neonazi that is not a problem of UP, that is a problem of reading, or being ignorant...(i mean people who is saying it)



So here i got few examples of what i mean with the discontent...
I will type more things but first let�s talk about this, because also JM another mod in this board is very "special" take a look:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

He posted
"CA this is just another one of you anti-Semetic topics, and anti-USA pro-terroist topics. Enough is enough. All you have done is stir anger and start fights in these topics of yours. Stop it. I want the fights in this topic to stop now. I dont want to see anything explode here. All you have done CA is cause trouble since you came to this board. You've cause anti-Semeticism, and your other crap. Stop it now"

Then after i reply, he replies this:
"
CA I am a moderator. I moderate this forum and the political scandslism one. Its my job to read everything and moderate them. And you incite these problems, by posting these things. You know people like TC and Gazrok will come after you and you want that."

I afterwards replied that if somebody had any trouble with any of my posts that he can come and talk about it with respect with me, no problem. And nobody did complaint about it except him...
He was talking for another people, when i ask where are those suposed persons, nobody replies...

I think till now i�ve said enought to show to the public, is now your own judge who is ready to play...

[Edited on 9-7-2003 by CoLD aNGeR]

Originally posted by TigeriS
Ok maybe this is a wrong reply on this thread, but I don't like this "police control" direction ATS is going...

Simon ? Bring back the old style !

That is what i try to mean in certain way...

lmao

My previous post was was tinted hugely with scarcasm.
Fact is I have no problem with ATS at all. The the job the Admin and Mods do is a fairly thankless job.

I can understand the reasons of some of the censoring, and banning of members. In actual fact I have no problem with that as well.

I have no real problems with the Chit Chat and introduction forums either.

But a few here think it should be a free for all. Which I think is unfair on the population of people that are here for other reasons than to vent steam ( although I might be guilty of it) at other people because of their opinions.

An incident a couple of days ago, when Freemasons posts where being filtered, did get on my nerves. But I'm old enough and mature enough to understand the reasons why.

AV's banning in my opinion was deserved.

Although I personally have no proplems with these two people.

Censoring of swear words, and the opinions of others here concerning this, is justified.

Giving Kowalski the boot was justified.

The Admin's and mods do this stuff to protect the Site and the posters who use it.

And really I don't see it as censorship.

Look past my scarcasm and I bet you will see some valid points.

Regarding Freemasons reaccuring bannings. Well, I just state the obvious. The same people taunt him, and in my mind bully, yes bully him into fighting back, resulting in his expulsion. These people are just as childish as they percieve him to be. Retaliating with the common playground "He started it first my calling my Momma a .."
Come on. And before anyone insinuates it...Yes I to am probably guilty for startin the 'Guess whos back' thread.
But I never entered into a one on one bout it out with him.

Bigots, and racists comments are easy to ignore without even having to touch the iggy button. Ones that infuriate me are the educated sounding ignorant one's.

Basically all I'm saying is ATS is being run by some top notch people, whatever road they like to walk.

And it a waste of time complaning about the censorship. Cause it there to make all of our stays here happy.

As opposed to be thrown back into the real world in an unstable state of mind!

Hows AV doing anyway!

Peace

to end this one.

A member of the forum staff has sent you a warning regarding your activity on the thread titled,
Chat Room seeds of discontent: Levitationjunkie, ColdAnger, etc.... Your have been warned 1 times.
Warnings are recorded, and each individual warning expires in three days (72 hours) from the time it was applied.
If forum staff continue to warn you and you gain 5 or more warnings, a temporary posting ban will be enforced automatically.
Do not reply to this U2U.


So that warning i have, for what?
William u did ask my opinion, and u asked me to reply this thread, u wanted to talk about it.
Why the heck i get a warning?
And better question for all Stuff members, why u never provide the reason for the warning in the u2u or at least a msg later telling me why?

AV's temporary posting ban has been removed.


on to other things


Cold Anger...

As far as not responding to your U2U's, two things:
1- I thought I already made myself clear
2- I don't spend 100% of my time on ATS
(Though it may seem that way since my line of work keeps me online most of the day )

Otherwise, valid concerns. I want to allow more commentary before I respond to the rest, but let me first respond to the topic of your concern... holocaust debate. Yes I feel the way I do, and will not change... but more important, discussion of that particular topic has happened here before, and it has never ended well... as a matter of fact, it's always been exceptionally ugly... especially when begun in the semi-confrontational way you began it. At times, we must consider disallowing certain topics because of the potential chaos that will result. If you'd like to engage in an organized debate on the topic, well that is another matter and it can be arranged (not with me, but anyone else willing).

During the writing of my response, I noticed a warning was applied to you. I didn't apply it, and I promised no repercussions within this thread (within reason). It will be removed, )and only Bob88 and I have the ability to remove warnings).

Originally posted by CoLD aNGeR

1) As u can see there is terms of "Cross the line", but i didn�t insult anyone, i posted sources of info, a place a thread to disscuss, as we do always, there is no difference talking about arabs, than NWO, or bush, is all a matter of questioning the truth, or the version we get normally from the media.
But what i refer to, up says here that or i stay neutral and quiet, or i will get banned or warned, is that really objective?
So if somebody is a left wing, cannot express his feelings because they are not neutral? Neutral must be who moderates, not the users, we come here to change opinions, and as that many more...

And that is the previous post of UP

2) here he says that why the purpose of being pro-palestinian (while i posted on my posts why), why not stay neutral (but then again 2 cannot disscuss if they are not in to extremes), as there is patriots there is anarchists....
I may not like what i�d find, i don�t know what he ment by that...

and If after all the times i said, i hate nazis, i am not anti-semitist, stills people seeing me as neonazi that is not a problem of UP, that is a problem of reading, or being ignorant...(i mean people who is saying it)

My dear CA, even if I don't care to see posted what I u2ued you, I'm pretty upset. Upset because these u2u ( mines and the other u2u's ) were PRIVATE my dear CA.

Oh yeah, and don't wonder why there is a red warn under your pseudo, it's comming from me. When someone send you a u2u, if you want to post it, at least you can ask for his/her permission before. Stupid you didn't ask for it, cuz I was ready to give you my permission. But of course, you're so coward and vicious that you didn't dare to ask.

You're NOT a gentleman CA.

And congratulations my dear CA. You are the first ATS poster who has been warned by Ultra_Phoenix. I hope you enjoy your chance, you lucky guy.

" i will get banned or warned, is that really objective?
So if somebody is a left wing, cannot express his feelings because they are not neutral? "

I NEVER wrote that I was ready to warn you or even to ban you. NEVER ! I just asked you to cool down with your revisionism craps.

Also, my dear CA, you can ask to Colonel what I u2ued him.You'll see that I don't mind if you are from the left or not. I NEVER tryed to censor you ( or anyone else ) because he was/is a leftist. I just tryed to stop you to split up.

" I may not like what i�d find, i don�t know what he ment by that... "

I guess now you understand what was my meaning.

P.S : " I didn't apply it, and I promised no repercussions within this thread (within reason) "

Sorry William. First, I forgot what you wrote and 2, in my opinion, there is a good reason for this warn.

[Edited on 9-7-2003 by ultra_phoenix]

Up is right CA, this type of misuse of private correspondance, without permission of the involved party or parties is also punishable by law. Lucky you were only slapped with a warn instean of a law suit.

Note it was this that pulled the last straw with AV before the his temporary banning as well

[Edited on 9-7-2003 by Maddas]

Originally posted by ultra_phoenix

Originally posted by CoLD aNGeR

1) As u can see there is terms of "Cross the line", but i didn�t insult anyone, i posted sources of info, a place a thread to disscuss, as we do always, there is no difference talking about arabs, than NWO, or bush, is all a matter of questioning the truth, or the version we get normally from the media.
But what i refer to, up says here that or i stay neutral and quiet, or i will get banned or warned, is that really objective?
So if somebody is a left wing, cannot express his feelings because they are not neutral? Neutral must be who moderates, not the users, we come here to change opinions, and as that many more...

And that is the previous post of UP

2) here he says that why the purpose of being pro-palestinian (while i posted on my posts why), why not stay neutral (but then again 2 cannot disscuss if they are not in to extremes), as there is patriots there is anarchists....
I may not like what i�d find, i don�t know what he ment by that...

and If after all the times i said, i hate nazis, i am not anti-semitist, stills people seeing me as neonazi that is not a problem of UP, that is a problem of reading, or being ignorant...(i mean people who is saying it)

My dear CA, even if I don't care to see posted what I u2ued you, I'm pretty upset. Upset because these u2u ( mines and the other u2u's ) were PRIVATE my dear CA.

Oh yeah, and don't wonder why there is a red warn under your pseudo, it's comming from me. When someone send you a u2u, if you want to post it, at least you can ask for his/her permission before. Stupid you didn't ask for it, cuz I was ready to give you my permission. But of course, you're so coward and vicious that you didn't dare to ask.

You're NOT a gentleman CA.

And congratulations my dear CA. You are the first ATS poster who has been warned by Ultra_Phoenix. I hope you enjoy your chance, you lucky guy.

" i will get banned or warned, is that really objective?
So if somebody is a left wing, cannot express his feelings because they are not neutral? "

I NEVER wrote that I was ready to warn you or even to ban you. NEVER ! I just asked you to cool down with your revisionism craps.

Also, my dear CA, you can ask to Colonel what I u2ued him.You'll see that I don't mind if you are from the left or not. I NEVER tryed to censor you ( or anyone else ) because he was/is a leftist. I just tryed to stop you to split up.

" I may not like what i�d find, i don�t know what he ment by that... "

I guess now you understand what was my meaning.

P.S : " I didn't apply it, and I promised no repercussions within this thread (within reason) "

Sorry William. First, I forgot what you wrote and 2, in my opinion, there is a good reason for this warn.

[Edited on 9-7-2003 by ultra_phoenix]

Up i also didn�t agree to appear in this thread as one of the people who were having that conversation in ATS CHaT, nobody told me the existance of that thread, and i said things there, i don�t know who saved the conversation and post it, i don�t mind, if i said it i don�t need to feel bad when i see it posted, i am not coward, coward is who doesn�t like to say the same thing that can say to 1 in private to all in public, i supose u were ready to give the permission, but as i saw this thread started without any permission, i did the same, and anyway william just wants to solve the problem, that is the only thing, anyway i was just showing to the public a conversation between a mod and a user, and about censorship, as long as it doesn�t concern your personal life, wife childre etc, and it�s ATS related u don�t have anything to hide, and we are here in this thread to talk about something right mate?

i don�t agree with your warning, but i can�t do anything about it (as more people does), but i tell you UP about the right and left, as i am pro palestinian, somebody is pro israel, as somebody is left wing or right wing understand now? u put my position as wrong in that u2u for the position i am defending, and also not understand why i did it, (is above if u wanna read it again).
Anyway i ask u if u want me to delete any info regarding the u2u tell me, but the content is not saying anything against u, is what u wrote as a moderator, u could have write that to anybody else in this board (if u had the situation we had). But i don�t understand your anger for this , anyway we try to resolve the problem and not make it worse...

Originally posted by Maddas
Up is right CA, this type of misuse of private correspondance, without permission of the involved party or parties is also punishable by law. Lucky you were only slapped with a warn instean of a law suit.

Note it was this that pulled the last straw with AV before the his temporary banning as well

[Edited on 9-7-2003 by Maddas]

You know some people tend to call me "AV". (I hate when they call me that.) So when I see that word, if you want to call it that, I usually take notice that they were talking about me. In this situation I have to ask why. I don't understand what I have to do with this certain situation at all. Could you explain???

Was I abusing the U2U policy???

I don't get it.


Thanks

Your Friend,
Abraham Virtue

Now that CA's issue has been aired. I hope that levitationjukie chimes in with his concern that I may be attempting to profit from ATS due to my involvement in advertising. Before anyone makes a comment on this, I'd like to air lev's point of view.

You think that the topics that are quote, "Chatty" are not savory??? Well that is fine to think so but like William said, "This is a community."

In communities you will see people and opinions of all walks of life. Because of that we must be respectful of those that tend to be different from the norm. Yes, this may be a conspiracy related site but that doesn't mean it HAS to be limited to the so-called conspiracy. What is the conspiracy anyway???

You know some people from the East think that reality it's self is a conspiracy. They think that our waking lives are nothing but dreams or false images we hold on to. If you ask me that relates to a conspiracy. A quite vast conspiracy if you ask me. So taking that into consideration any topic we speak of is all apart of the so-called conspiracy. For anything we percieve is nothing but a lie. Because of that ideal any topic that is so-called chatty is no different from the other popular conspiracies out there. Am I right or wrong????

So taking those into consideration we must be patient with other peoples' opinions on what is relavant. Not to mention we must take into consideration the fact that the NWO and other conspiracy popular topics of the like are not the whole story. What about the dream world??? Is that chatty??? Is that unsavory and irrelavent to the conspiracy??? Once again, what is this conspiracy???

I will tell you what the conspiracy is. The conspiracy is that which we want it to be. It is just what we percieve conception to be. It is nothing more than a matter of opinion. Matters of opinion, so as long as they are not offensive and don't involve calling good hearted people "Nazis" should NEVER be censored and NEVER be irrelavent.

(Just one man's opinion, nothing to take seriously.)


Love,
Abraham

[Edited on 9-7-2003 by Abraham Virtue]

Im gonna be honest. I have no vendetta or anything against William or anyone else at this website. Anyways, i been skulking around this website for 3 years now i think, even before this site had a forum. I never did post much (and still dont), i preferred to just observe other posts and stuff, observed the conflicts and all. One thing i have noticed is that lately William has been pretty bossy to all of us at the boards and has been acting as if he is the head honcho, and always will be the head honcho. When i first saw this topic it seemed as if you simply wanted to pick fights with the people who dont agree with you 100% on everything. Ya know william, its strange that you been here such a long time and have known SimonGrey and all, even after all this time its funny that even now you havent learned a damn thing from Simon and probably never will. Anyways thats my take on all this, please go ahead and eat me alive.

Didn't someone say a few years ago or for that matter 6 months ago, there was nowhere near this amount of volume of participation? So I would say William is dealing with new territory requiring new learning curves.

By the way, where is Simon?

speakin of that, i need to see if he's going to attend the london meet.

as for the moderation, i see nothing wrong with moding ppl who are idioctic. however, when someone asks someone to announce their views with no hard feelings, then that person is warned, then it is time to reform. i don't know where this place is going, but i'm a long for the ride. i know who my friends are and i'm going to wactch this one playout alongside mulder. i don't want to see a war here. and i don't want to see false freedoms. that's what ats is all about, freedom of thought.

Personally I see nothing wrong with this topic and if anything it shows much compassion and maturity on William's part. Now this is all coming from the one who origionally posted discontent with the censorship, with maybe the exception of Freemason. So lay off Mulder. This is an issue that doesn't really involve you directly and has to do with those that feel as if the censorship has gotten out of hand. If you feel this way, then say so. But don't do what I did and get personal with this. If you really feel that there is a problem with the censorship then try and show that is your concern. Don't resort to posting that which may be censored. For William is trying to weed out this discontent that many of us feel with the staff's policy on the censorship. If you want to make this situation worse, than you can join me in the censored club. If you want to take this discontent and see to it that it is resolved in an orderly fashion then please do so. But don't resort to personal attacks. Don't make my mistake. You will regret it.


With Love,
Abe

Originally posted by magestica
Anyway, I think ATS has become somewhat of a chit chat oriented forum, atleast for the time being. But things change and I'm sure something will happen canspiracy wise here soon that we can all discuss and debate about again..I do think that *some* members here, not mentioning names though, NEVER ever discuss conspiracy related issues and that does tend to bug me, with all the other chitty forums out there in computer land, why here?

okay, I'll admit I'm guilty of this one. I'm in the habit of posting about utterly random crap because of my partipation on other (more lax) forums, but the moderation on these forums is something of a comfort when it comes to chit-chatty subjects, because posters don't have to worry about stuff like that being sprayed all over the place in a vendetta.
now, to play devil's advocate, the moderation around these parts is rather more strict than I'm used to. I'm not sure if there is a clear enough definition of what's okay to post and what's verboten. I can understand that crap posts drag down the content of the forums, but one person's crap is another person's gold. every forum has it's weirdos and cranks and attention whores, and I think this particular forum is going through some growing pains in that respect. I think a clearer definition of what's cool and what's not would be beneficial for all. I mean, threads that don't violate the TOS should be okay, even if they don't come from the brightest crayon in the box. retarded threads should drop to the bottom of the pile anyway, if they're stupid don't reply. think of it as community moderation
oh well. just thought I'd throw my hat into the ring and stir the pot and throw out metaphors...

The purpose of this topic is to clear the air as far as I can see.
It is not only members who should learn from the criticisms of the staff but the staff can also learn from the thoughtful criticism of members.

I urge any members(as William himself has) who have strong feelings on any issue concerning ATS to take this opportunity to give voice to them.
William himself has given an undertaking that there will be no repurcussions.I know this to be true.

Already we have been given food for thought.Let's air any discontent here,now and deal with it in an adult fashion rather than let it fester.

I believe this discussion forum is the best of it's kind on the net.I believe it's members are the best members on the net.And with you help the staff will be the best staff on the net.

Yours JB1

Originally posted by AgentMulder320
One thing i have noticed is that lately William has been pretty bossy to all of us at the boards and has been acting as if he is the head honcho, and always will be the head honcho.

HEY! F You!


-just kidding-


I know this perception has built by accident. By being the person announcing updates, changes, new features, and such, I've accidentally turned into the lightning rod for other things (and I do have a long history running discussion boards, since 1982, so it was too easy for me to step up). And in many cases, the perception among some newer members has become that this is my site. Far from it!

Also, this site has gotten far too big for Simon to manage. Even after all the new moderators, it's still difficult for everyone on the staff to look at every post... there are over 1,000 new posts every day. Simon's talent should be focused on the main site, hopefully, our staff allows him the time to do that.

(still waiting for Levitationjunkie)