Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

a reply to: Willtell

Its like keeping up with the Kardashians.

originally posted by: beetee
I am not saying that it is in any way shady, but it certainly is convenient for private enterprise to snag these well connected people.

At the least it is a conflict of interest. In many cases such corporate arms are set up for the sole purpose of providing a front for intelligence operations, such as in the case of United Fruit in Cuba. The same corporate interests, such as Bechtel. alongside former presidents, spooks, military officers and other representatives of the status quo, take part in the high-jinks and Cremation of Care ceremonies who consistently get the government contracts, keeping the whole show a rich-white boys club. These people depend upon conflict for profit at one level or another.

originally posted by: pigsy2400
a reply to: beetee

Some very good points there BT. I would go further and state that "ufology" is the IC greatest achievement....as in they created it in the first place. Makes sense they would check in on their creation from time to time as well as dropping in new story books from time to time.

I read the following about Issac Newton the other day...

"As a boy, on dark nights he placed candles in paper lanterns and tied them to the tails of kites to terrify the country people, who took them for comets."

P95, Comets: A chronological history of observation, science, myth and folklore by Donald K Yeomans.

Newton was clearly a Merry Prankster, and a precocious, easily bored child.





Infiltrating groups, not only UFOlogy based but also environmental and social activist groups amongst others, creating dischord and distrust, leading to those groups fragmenting and then using it's power to promote books, like those of Jacobsen. Publicised by Wall Street controlled media outlets like the NY Times, to push those sanitised narratives onto the mass readership that they command. It's not just the IC, it's the shareholders and board members that demand a growth on their investment, and to do that corners have to be cut. For corners to be cut, information has to be withheld, distractions have to be created, and opposition and criticism needs to be controlled and quietened.

Here is an interesting read for those who have not seen it all yet.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Apparently Eric Davis' last attempt to gain more funding for his screwball science projects didn't go too well.....

originally posted by: pigsy2400
a reply to: beetee

Some very good points there BT. I would go further and state that "ufology" is the IC greatest achievement....as in they created it in the first place. Makes sense they would check in on their creation from time to time as well as dropping in new story books from time to time.

The people who blindly believe this creation are just useful idiots.

I will state I do believe there is a phenomena, I believe I have seen it.....answers to what it is? Absolutely no bloody idea....and looking to people like TTSA for those answers is a useful idiots errand.

I wonder.

How would one reconcile the "ufology as a psyop/massive con" perspective on one hand, and the existance of the "phenomenon" on the other hand?

For example; the greys are said to have originated in fiction(?) and then the meme grew.

UFOs are also said to have followed an evolution staying just ahead of technology.

Cattle mutilations, aliens or humans?

The men in black have changed too over the decades.

Can they be both?

George Knapp on Spaced Out Radio

1hr 40mins in

"I don't work for TTSA and I don't have the same kind of access to them as I had before" because they are reserved and are cautious about how the organisation has been treated. They have rolled the dice and put everything on the line.. "I don't blame them for not trusting the UFO community"

Then George goes on about how Zondo put his life on the line in foreign countries and Mellon doesn't have to do public service and that would they go to all this trouble in a multi billion dollar organisation and put their necks on the line to simply fool "ufologists"

To which Dave Scott replies

"well that's the way it looks though....."!

I have always liked Dave Scott, he seems to be one of the only ones in this topic that does seem to ask the harder questions.

Well worth a listen

Basically George is blaming the UFO community for TTSA's problems but also states that alot of the "hurt feelings" in the ufo community will stop once the TV series comes out and hints at new videos there are to come out.

Knapp wants to paint all the criticism of TTSA as hurt feelings rather than natural skepticism. It's become so difficult now to tell what he knows and has revealed and what he knows and can't talk about yet or ever. He is too close to the situation in my opinion.

Seems to me like the whole UFO problem, whatever is behind it, is like if the Manhattan Project was never really able to successfully make an atomic bomb and they just gave up at some point. We would have decades of rumors about what went on there, deathbed confessions from people who worked at the facilities but only knew a piece of the puzzle, wild stories with no basis in reality ("they were trying to open a portal to another dimension") and the government basically afraid to,admit they could never crack the code.

a reply to: coursecatalog

These are the 9 principles of Journalism according to the American Press Association;

1) Journalism's first obligation is to the truth.
2) It's first loyalty is to its citizens
3) It's essence is discipline of verification
4) Its practitioners must maintain independence from those they cover
5) It must serve as an independent monitor of power
6) It must provide a forum for public criticism and compromise
7) It must strive to make the significant interesting and relevant
8) It must keep the news comprehensive and proportional
9 )Its practitioners must be allowed to exercise their personal conscience
americanpressassociation.com...

Not only would some premier/senior reporters within Ufology do well to revisit these principles, I also believe that many within Ufology would benefit from following some of these as well....

originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: The GUT

originally posted by: pigsy2400

Ufology makes an excellent topic for studies in a number of areas, behavioural sciences, distribution of social memes, new religions and beliefs systems and network narratives.

Speaking of network narratives;
www.darpa.mil...

Narrative has become big business and is another holy grail for contractors like our cast of characters.

The research contracts/projects for narrative control--and they make no bones about it's importance in full-spectrum warfare--are pretty vast.

Say you drop something like Serpo and evaluate it's spread. Can a "lie" or "propaganda" be crafted and shaped for sheeple herding? That type of thing has surely been done. As a matter of fact---think how perfect the ufological community is for certain socio-psychological testing.

And not to have me tinfoil too tight, I'm sure Dr. Green owning a small percentage of ATS and being basically the whole "Science Board" here wouldn't give him access to board data for research extrapolation or nothin' that's crazy talk right?

You know this stuff is absolutely pitiful, and these guys are still doing great business running around deceiving people and backing folks like Firmage into penury.

Likely Delonge will go bankrupt if he doesn’t get out of this group.

Now TTSA has created a scam based on all the Firmage failures of the past, with all this antigravity nonsense and other phony astrophysics technologies they’ve invented to carry on in this nonsense.
Wormholes, stargates, and portals, all straight to hell…or straight to nowhere!
These guys have ransacked the new age and astrophysics mythologies (wormholes, portals) and created a monster with an appetite it can’t quench...Taking advantage of credulous human nature to deceive and exploit.

Here are 1of 9’s links.
badufos.blogspot.com...

ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com...

Now the guy who made the FAKE alien autopsy movie thinks he is going to sue and get ufo secrets!

One poster mentioned karma in regards to the producer of the FAKE alien autopsy hoax now suing Firmage and his CIA sponsor.

Did you catch the bit about Pandolfi’s wife?

originally posted by: AlanHenderson
For example; the greys are said to have originated in fiction(?) and then the meme grew.

One could argue they've been around for 126 years if we go back to HG Wells' description of them as a future version of humans in his 1983 essay, 'Man Of The Year Million'. 104 years later, Whitley Strieber arguably began the modern Grey craze with 'Communion' - not that he described them as "aliens" per se, rather "visitors"... which sceptics may regard as a subtle and smart marketing move.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

At the least it is a conflict of interest.

Yes, I guess what I meant to say was that it is not illegal at least, although I agree it might be a bit problematic. Maybe it is shady. The fine machinery of the military-industrial complex gobbling up those public funds...

a reply to: 1ofthe9

Did you catch the bit about Pandolfi’s wife?

Yes.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

H.G Wells, there ya go. So the sterotype of a grey goes back to a man made origin.

. which sceptics may regard as a subtle and smart marketing move

Naturally. "Plagiarism" also comes to mind. And really, that leaves people who say greys exist to look decidedly foolish and those who have seen them; delusional.

This is a huge problem for everyone from schoolkids talking about "dad saw an alien" to their friends, and up to government and science.

This creates a huge arguement that ATS can't seem to get past, let alone everyone else.

So is there an answer? I think so.

Whatever is behind the "phenomenon"; greys, tall blond nordics, etc., is mimicing our stereotypes.

I think it is important to think along this line of thought for a moment because there are implications.

In criminal investigation, it is imperative that some things are kept secret in serial crimes. Certain keys that identify the serial criminal. Otherwise copycat crimes can be commited and you don't know who did it. Bonny and Clyde impersonators would get away with robbing banks for instance.

Now mimicry is a problem for everyone except for the mimic. The reports of men in black posing as military folks to get possession of photos and shut up witnesses is another example.

Mimicry is a problem for witnesses and researchers. It is also a problem for those who might be creating the disinformation.

To create a coverup story and then find someone else is using it as cover complicates things. Perhaps to the point where no one really knows what is going on.

Let's say the American military took H.G. Wells' creation and used it to cover something up and then found "greys" turning up in UFO reports. That would probably confuse the hell out of them. (Serves them right)

Mimicry to remain anonymous.

The little scraps of debris that are nothing at all. Someone goes to a lot of trouble to make sure nothing useful is found. The "hill 611" UFO crash in Dalnegorsk is an example here. The Orb was said to have burnt for over an hour leaving virtually nothing.

The greys are not what they seem either.

Create a stereotype and someone mimics it as a disguise. I reckon both sides do that. Both the "phenomenon" and the cloak and dagger folks, no reason others couldn't join in the mischief.

If we think in terms of mimicry, perhaps we can put aside a few differences and get past first base.

originally posted by: AlanHenderson
Let's say the American military took H.G. Wells' creation and used it to cover something up and then found "greys" turning up in UFO reports. That would probably confuse the hell out of them. (Serves them right)

If you mean Roswell, then they waited over thirty years to use Wells' creation (from 1893, not "1983" as I mis-typed it), after it had become a non-story. Jesse Marcel had a sudden and miraculous memory recall in the 70s, but even he hadn't considered the story of alien bodies until the claims of a civil engineer started THAT particular ball rolling in Berlitz and Moore's 'The Roswell Incident' in 1980. Some military dudes then jumped on that very late wagon, despite the facts and details continually warping and contradicting themselves. An embarrassing mess basically.

Which is why my toes curl whenever TTSA mention the "R"-word.

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit

Which is why my toes curl whenever TTSA mention the "R"-word.

What about the other "R" CB? Rendlesham. It's much more fascinating I admit but ain't an extraterrestrial case either!

Abandon all hope & R's ye who enter here.

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit

originally posted by: AlanHenderson
For example; the greys are said to have originated in fiction(?) and then the meme grew.

One could argue they've been around for 126 years if we go back to HG Wells' description of them as a future version of humans in his 1983 essay, 'Man Of The Year Million'.

That seems like a valid argument, they didn't begin as extraterrestrials.

A Media History of Gray Aliens

Around 1892, apparently, people took an interest in what human beings would look like after another million or so years of evolution. They concluded that the “Human of the Year 10 Million” would have no hair, mouth, or nose, an enormous lightbulb shaped head, and a small body. Since we’d develop machinery to do all our heavy labor, we’d become more intelligent organisms, thus making out bodies get smaller and our brains get larger. I don’t think there’s an evolutionary reason for it, but in drawings of that era the “people of the future” usually don’t have ears, lips, or noses, and have large or oddly shaped eyes.

If you think that these writings are just some obscure references, think again: in 1892 H.G. Wells, the famous sci-fi author, wrote a story called “Of a Book Unwritten, The Man of the Year Million." A month later, similar stories (copyright law was not very well enforced in those days) appeared in most every newspaper on the face of the earth. Newspapers were then, as they are now, afraid of not covering a story the public was interested in, so when one paper did something that sold a lot of copies, everyone else mimicked them. Almost all included pictures, and thus was the concept of the big headed space alien born.

I know that right now many people who have an interest in space aliens are reading this. I know that they will accuse me of trying to tie together relatively ancient history with the modern times. But I have a silver bullet of an argument with which to counter such claims: the little gray men have not left pop culture since their introduction in the 1890s. In the 1890s the theme seemed to be what humankind would evolve to on a long enough timeline; in the early 1900s a book called The Invasion of Mars (which seems to have been a sequel to War of the Worlds, written without Well’s knowledge) featured the little gray men. So did such fantastic early science-fiction books as The First Men in the Moon and The Hampdenshire Wonder. The simple fact of the matter is that in the early days the little gray men were a staple of the original science-fiction books by Verne, Welles, and the other founders of the genre.

originally posted by: The GUT
What about the other "R" CB? Rendlesham. It's much more fascinating I admit but ain't an extraterrestrial case either!

As you know, GUT, having dumped the Roswell garbage, I'm still barely clinging onto the British "R" - a bit like James Stewart during the opening of 'Vertigo'. However, the woeful 'time-travel' aspect (which has evolved from initially dismissed regression sessions to sudden claimed 'reality') threatens to bury the case for good as Osborn and Penniston's book looms on the horizon.

Of course, Colonel Halt made his infamous ten-year-old "ET" declaration when he was liaising with researcher Gary Heseltine about a documentary feature... but has since back-tracked on that rather foolish announcement as the involved RFI parties continue arguing and changing allegiances. In other words, another embarrassing mess to rival your own "R".

a reply to: Arbitrageur
Wells messed up his futures.

Wha' about the Morlocks and Eloi?

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I didn't have any particular case in mind, moreso a principal.

Animal/human mutilations are another example. Some folks attribute those to authorities monitoring fallout or mad cow disease in the food supply. Maybe so, but are those the ONLY folks at work in mutilations?

Some say that greys are just people in costumes and drugged "abductees". Maybe so in some cases.

I'm just throwing the concept of mimicry into the whole UFO stew.

Even with my own encounters with "greys", I am well aware that they are just toooo stereotypical to be what they appear to be.

So too the disappointingly flat chested nordic babes. Adamski started the tall blond stereotype I think.

Bottom line, if I were an "alien" who wanted to remain anonymous with a dismissable presence, appearing to be a grey or tall blond babe would do the job.

Not everything is a disinfo campaign. That would perhaps be giving the IC too much credit.

A disinfo campaign would be the perfect place to hide in plain view and work undisturbed though.

I think most folks would admit the "phenomenon" is real. Working out the mechanics of how it works through human perception is interesting.

Roswell may be just BS, but that does not mean something is not taking advantage of that story. The TTSA are doing that it appears.

In politics, diplomacy, the IC, and even the average man in the street deals with fabrication and not truth. So does the "phenomenon" in its interaction with us.

However, that does not neccessariy mean the "phenomenon" lies.