Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

In reading some of Valles Forbidden science 4 it's amazing; it could have been written today.

UFO studies are frozen in time!

What interests me also was if Vallee knew what he did way back then, how could he then write a forward to the TTSA Levada/Delonge book, Gods man and war, tacitly supporting TTSA.

Then I went back and read the one page forward and it was so general and weak and had little substance to it. At least that tells us Vallee probably doesn’t really support TTSA and its pedestrian agenda.

If you really want to know who are "the others" ask yourself the following question. Who are we? Are we demons, ghosts, angels, gods, witches, aliens?

a reply to: coursecatalog

How do the TTSA members possibly reconcile their statements that the others are demons manipulating mankind with their plans to use "gifted" technology from these same others to build devices that, among other things, warp the space time continuum? 

"Oops, we flubbed." would at least be honest.

a reply to: vortimond

Maybe were everything...or a little bit of everything.

originally posted by: coursecatalog
How do the TTSA members possibly reconcile their statements that the others are demons manipulating mankind with their plans to use "gifted" technology from these same others to build devices that, among other things, warp the space time continuum?

Unfortunately, the trajectory of history rarely shows alleged divine or otherworldly guidance leading towards more freedom, more equality or more peace.

That's a very interesting observation there CC....they are evil demonic alien Greek Gods.....

"but we just gotta build a starship with their stuff that we worship in nasa buildings.... eeerrrr I mean from some of the papers about time space Metric.....Yeah thats the one...those things that Eric did.....dont think anyone noticed"

a reply to: pigsy2400

We doomed Pigs.

originally posted by: Baablacksheep
a reply to: pigsy2400

We doomed Pigs.

Chill out...said the pig to the sheep...have a drink and calm yourself down..hmmmm that's an interesting pint

a reply to: pigsy2400

Damn am chilled after looking at that!

Here's a new, I think, at least it was posted a few days ago of our hero zondo giving a lecture. If it was already posted just ignore it...



He's even got a new suit on!

a reply to: Willtell

Was this before he came off the road in "Ice Road Muckers" or after?

Either way I like how he tells us that on Dec 17th 2017 that the "Reality of UAPs is Acknowledged". As before that none of us had ever even heard of things like Project Bluebook etc....Good to hear that this information is finally getting out.

I could imagine Zondo eventually carving out a decent career on the stand up comedy circuit. He does have a natural talent for this sort of thing. Then perhaps moving to TV presenting work. Something like "Dancing with To the Stars" would be a good fit. It looks like this was a good career move for him after all.

And in other news the Black Vault has put together a timeline of the news reports, statements and announcements announcing forthcoming announcements etc...All using cited sources. It shows how contradictory the reports are and many of them come from TTSA themselves.

Navigating the Twisted Maze of the AATIP Timeline

2007
Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP) Begins

EXACT Date Unknown

Source: Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program (Original NY Times Article) By Helene Cooper, Ralph Blumenthal and Leslie Kean. Relevant excerpt:

“The shadowy program — parts of it remain classified — began in 2007, and initially it was largely funded at the request of Harry Reid, the Nevada Democrat who was the Senate majority leader at the time and who has long had an interest in space phenomena.”

Problem: This contradicts the timeline that Mr. Luis Elizondo setup, that the AAWSAP contract/program was renamed AATIP in 2008, not 2007 (see below). Mr. Elizondo was at least one of the sources used by the NY Times for the facts, but it contradicts his later statements that AATIP started in 2008, and was quoted as saying, “… [AATIP] evolved from AAWSAP but it is not AAWSAP.” (See below for additional details on AAWSAP)

In addition, the NY Times said: “Contracts obtained by The Times show a congressional appropriation of just under $22 million beginning in late 2008 through 2011. The money was used for management of the program, research and assessments of the threat posed by the objects.”

Problem: This contradicts their own reporting. The original contracts awarded in late 2008 (see below) for what we later learn is AAWSAP, were not AATIP contracts. If they were, then this reporting contradicts the testimony of Mr. Luis Elizondo. So, therefore, it must be asked why the NY Times would not stay accurate and offer a brief chronological overview of how AATIP came to be? According to Mr. Elizondo, who headed the project, AATIP was a different program entirely from AAWSAP. So, if Mr. Elizondo was at least one of their sources, why would this not be addressed or detailed since Mr. Elizondo himself says AAWSAP and AATIP were not the same? (See also the contradiction between Dr. Hal Puthoff, a former contractor that worked within AAWSAP/AATIP, and who is now a board member of TTSA, working directly with Mr. Elizondo. He has direct knowledge of the program having worked on it, but his statement goes against Mr. Elizondo’s, who actually headed the program.)....

See link above for full timeline....

The piece goes on to discuss dozens of other contradictions. One being that despite TTSA brazenly pushing the Nimitz UFO case from 2004 and George Knapp rustling up the said report it seems Cmdr. Fravor was not contacted until Sept 2017. This was mainly to help give the coming NY Times story more credibility. Yet AATIP were allegedly looking at incidents like this since 2007 (or was it 2008 or even 2009)?

It finishes with the many contradictions in Zondo's latest live gig (see video above that Willtell posted). Someone asks about which department FOIA requests about AATIP should be directed to. Zondo after hmmming says the DIA.

"Question: Which military service agency within the IC [intelligence community] would be the best focal point for FOIA requests related to the phenomenon and AATIP.

Mr. Elizondo: “If I was a betting man, I would probably stick with, ummm, knocking on the doors of DIA as
"..they have already admitted that the uhh, after some time they they actually were running part of the program. Umm I’d keep knocking on those doors.

But this contradicts that fact that he'd already earlier stated that at least from 2010 - 2017 AATIP was fully housed within the OSD, and not DIA.

Then there was the turnaround when AWSAAP was unearthed by researchers. One of the 38 DIRD papers listed and dated 29 March 2010 is the “Advanced Space Propulsion Based on Vacuum (Spacetime Metric) Engineering” where it states;

“This product is one in a series of advanced technology reports produced in FY 2009 under the Defense Intelligence Agency, Defense Warning Office’s Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications (AAWSA) Program.

In previous statements Zondo has claimed AATIP was not AAWSAP and also that AAWSAP’s name changed to AATIP in 2008. While all the DIRD reports, released or leaked to date — also quote the AAWSAP name. Whereas Zondo claims it had changed in 2008 to AATIP!!!

It also lists the differing names of AATIP in various sources. Where it was Advanced [Avation, Aerial and Aerospace] Threat Identification Program.

There is much more there and it seems that the author, Mr Greenwald, is now taking heat from certain characters on social media. Which is a sure sign of desperation. If Zondo does end up presenting "Dancing with To the Stars" on TV then he could also feature in the commercials advertising his own brand of "porkie pies".

a reply to: mirageman

Good shout MM, I have been waiting for this to go up from when John mentioned it in an interview recently

a reply to: mirageman

I don't know why the "young guns" and others are so harsh with John Greenwald....he's not trying to debunk TTSA, he just wants to verify what they are stating with documentation.

Surely if TTSA were legit in the information they have provided, then surely they would be behind John of the blackvault as the paperwork would reinforce what they believe and what TTSA have stated.

Boggles the mind....and don't get me started on the hitchhiker Davis.....who has also stuck the knife into John as well.

When people / young guns say it's not a CIA operation, they clearly haven't seen the "about us" page on TTSAs website.

With time, maybe they will become as skeptical as us....that's the way it usually goes.

a reply to: pigsy2400

The young guns aren't so young. Some are naïve. Others seem to blindly follow their new found spiritual leaders in learning the ways of the force.

As for Davis. Well he's been called out for lying already a number of times.He's become a troll. He even called two serious and diligent researchers "idiots with computers" and "rank amateurs with no demonstrated professional record of success in scientific, intelligence, or forensic investigations/research into anything, much less the UFO phenomenon".

This is from a man who writes short pamphlets on teleportation @$25k each for the US DoD claiming

moving yourself from location to location through mind powers, is "quite real and can be controlled."

His report also appears to have disappointed the DoD when they said

we were disappointed at the level of scientific rigour in the report's analysis."

Source : Las Vegas Weekly

It was criticized as "in large part crackpot physics"....by his peers.

I think he might be suffering from psychological problems. He is quoted as having taken a poltergeist home with him from Skinwalker Ranch. Maybe he's been subjected unknowingly to psy-ops from the people he trusts and thought he was working for? His irrational outbursts on radio shows and social media illustrate this. More recently he ripped into European researchers for daring to criticise American ufology and making it difficult for TTSA!

TTSA are making it difficult for TTSA with their continual shifty vagueness.

a reply to: mirageman

I think you have pointed out some very serious problems MM. It sure is not good.

a reply to: mirageman

Yeah, the guy acts as if TTSA is the only game in town.

Also, he is a bad public speaker. He should use notes. He starts on a topic and then goes off into another topic before he even finishes the point of the original topic and one can get lost or bored.



One wonders; was that a part of his initial intelligence briefing/training for this operation:

“Okay Zondo, basically we want you to make a public fool of yourself. So, when you speak publicly be incoherent…sloppy and practically hard to understand. Make the subject ridiculous with distortions, lies and incoherent nonsense”

a reply to: mirageman

Well I was going to write a summary of what he said and.....but you beat me to it.

"Ruining American Ufology" - the ego in that statement is unbelievable.

Well at least he got that right....I havent got a clue if the UK/French/German/Italian etc etc governments have a ufo program... I most certainly know the American government does because they keep "apparently" telling us about it!

I think the answer lies in that the American occultism/Ufo religion of the people pushing that narrative, Eric Davis included, doesn't translate as well over the pond. Mutilated Bovine excrement....

He must have had a high dose of Zappy Zap when he was on the ranch......

originally posted by: pigsy2400
a reply to: mirageman

Well I was going to write a summary of what he said and.....but you beat me to it.

"Ruining American Ufology" - the ego in that statement is unbelievable.

Well at least he got that right....I havent got a clue if the UK/French/German/Italian etc etc governments have a ufo program... I most certainly know the American government does because they keep "apparently" telling us about it!

I think the answer lies in that the American occultism/Ufo religion of the people pushing that narrative, Eric Davis included, doesn't translate as well over the pond. Mutilated Bovine excrement....

He must have had a high dose of Zappy Zap when he was on the ranch......

I agree I think the guy has some serious problems and should seek professional help.

American ufology? Some American ufologists I could mention are very thorough and diligent. Davis has already attacked one of them hasn't he?

But it has its problem characters for sure. The ones who tell tall stories on radio shows, speak at conferences and appear on obscure TV shows. But they are incapable of resolving anything. Obviously because the US government cover absolutely every angle to cover up UFOs. All the good photos and videos are soon confiscated. But people like Davis are 'obviously' allowed to talk about secret projects with impunity and no fear of jail.

As if TTSA can even be claimed to have anything to do with ufology?

They are an entertainment company. They are filed as such.



But I suppose that if you are a gullible young gun then you can convince yourself that obviously if TTSA are studying UFOs then the can't actually admit that in the world of business (UFOlogy isn't a business is it?). Nor can they file as a science or aerospace company. That's not what Science or Aerospace companies do is it?



Is this a plan to actually make ufology look completely stupid?

Starting with Eric Davis' comments. How dare people ask questions about TTSA's operations. He's got a PhD so he obviously knows they are as trustworthy and reliable as he is in his operations.

a reply to: mirageman

I have come to the conclusion as I'm sure others may have, thats it's all about controlling the ufo narrative but with other purposes and objectives in play. Intelligence operations and/or most things in military circles tend to go ahead if there is a dual purpose, mission or goal.

The ufo community has been the naughty smelly kid in the corner at a party that none of the other kids want to play with or take seriously BUT they've been playing by themselves for a bit now and it's time for Pappa Puthoff and Uncle Lue to bring them back in line with everyone else.

There appear to be such a concerted effort by people who are willing to believe what TTSA and others state with no evidence to back up their claims to quash those actually looking for the truth.

Any evidence that has been put on the table by TTSA et al is questionable, unverifiable,unfalsifiable and doesn't add upto previous statements/evidence that has been previously presented; ironically by themselves!

Now there is just a sheer audacity by these same people with no provenance of evidence for which they claim, to attack those that are seeking verification in the form of documents OR just anyone who asks questions or challenges their narrative.

They know, they've been there, they've seen it, so you must believe them. It really is like a religious leadership tending to its flock asking for money to be put in the tin whilst attempting to excommunicate the non believers from the conversation.

It really is a farce and until real verifiable evidence can be provided by TTSA to backup their claims.....I ain't buying. At least Lue got a new lawnmower.....well, I'd ask to see the receipt...but i wouldn't bank on them releasing it....

a reply to: pigsy2400

I agree...

The overall reality of TTSA is that they are a continuation of the decade’s old operation of the US IC infiltration and control of the US ufology community.

In fitting with past infiltrations (notably NICAP and the Richard Doty schemes) they have employed ex-intelligence and CIA operatives to do the job of infiltration. And in this case, in order to keep things consistent, they made Zondo do this FAKE retirement—as a supposed disgruntled and frustrated agent who just had to quit! So along with other ex-IC agents, notably Hal Puthoff joined the team. Zondo after his “retirement” joined as in-fact its head…Since obviously, they couldn’t let Delonge run this operation.

I also concur they don’t do this for one reason, it’s not just to make ufology look stupid, that is one of the objectives among many. They can have multiple reasons for such an operation. For instance, IMO, the 22 million was to get Bigelow most of that money in order to repay him for getting government access to the MUFON files, he paid about a quarter of a million for earlier. This scheme was headed by his buddy the Senator from Las Vegas Harry Reid.

TTSA then has all the signs of a low-level intelligence, disinformation and control operation. They’re not even trying to hide this fact much.

That to me is still the reason to monitor TTSA and that can tell us a lot of things in itself.

In researching the US IC operation of control and monitoring ufology it seems one of the active means is to also distort its presentation and see that it is filled with a myriad of screwball, and even some serious theoretical possibilities behind the reality of ufology, as long as it's NOT from mainstream sources. In other words, what they don’t want is any of these theories coming from any legitimate mainstream source. It loves the AA show where there are numerous screwball theories from the vaunted “ancient alien theorists”

That's what's interesting about TTSA...it doesn't meet past operational criteria.

Maybe they’ve somewhat back-off and therefore no longer need to hide this operation…i.e...TTSA.

Ironically, they may somehow be willing to fess up to their past shenanigans in this field...MAYBE?