Brexit is a Mess, how do we Fix it.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Axius

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: SprocketUK
From government uk site
4.1 Contents of your company’s accounts

Generally, accounts must include:

a profit and loss account (or income and expenditure account if the company is not trading for profit)a balance sheet signed by a director on behalf of the board and the printed name of that directornotes to the accountsgroup accounts (if appropriate)

And accounts must generally be accompanied by;

a directors’ report signed by a secretary or director and their printed name, including a business review (or strategic report) if the company does not qualify as smallan auditors’ report stating the name of the auditor and signed and dated by him (unless the company is exempt from audit).


fullfact.org...

Here's a table of all the errors and times that the eu own auditors signed off the accounts despite them failing the fair test.

And they still will not publish them for the people who pay the taxes to examine.

It's 2018 we deserve more openness, more democracy, more accountability. Not less

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Axius
I wonder what would happen if the UK requested a financial audit of Brussels to "ensure we paid what we owed".
I imagine that the risk of expenses and other financial scandals would be cause for a rapid change in the EU's approach to negotiations.

What do you guys/girls think?

The EU already is audited every year.

No. The eu court of auditors sign off the accounts, even when there are significant errors.
They never, ever, release the accounts for audit. Even a tiny little limited company has to have its accounts audited externally, failure to do so smacks of fraud.

The court of auditors is independent authority the same way as the NAO is an independent authority in the UK. Can you point to an external company audit for the UK accounts?

Its an entirely false claim that they sign off even when there are errors. What they do us highlight where they believe spending has been done outwith the EU guidelines. 80% of EU spending is done by national governments.

The EU isn't a company just as the UK government isn't.

Here is the full article that your table comes from

fullfact.org...

Certainly worth reading in full.

According to the "Audits" that have been performed so far 2 - 3.1% of payments made by the EU are subject to error. Considering that the EU yearly budget is approximately €145 bn a year (2015), that would mean somewhere between €2.0 bn and €4.5 bn of payments are found to be in error.

To me this hints to corruption or an expenses scandal.

If you read the article linked it discusses that and how it compares to national governments.

The majority of that 3 % is not following EU guidelines. Not fraud.

Also 80% of EU spending is conducted by national governments, so we might want to look closer to home for the fault.

I am aware the the reported 3.1% relates to payments not in line with EU guidelines. However I can find no information as to what these errors were, how they were addressed, corrected etc. This is what gives me cause for concern.

National governments, regardless of nation, should also be held responsible for erroneous EU spending. I am not trying to imply that the problem only lies within Brussels. I think the problem stems from the system and the lack of transparency that gives easy rise to people looking to exploit the system.

Where there is money and power there is likely to be corruption, politics has a tendency to attract those with sociopathic traits. The EU just happens to be a huge sprawling organisation that has a great deal of funding. To say there is no corruption or fraud going on would be naive.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

There was no defined right to live or work. Even travel could require a visa.

Travel never required a visa I took the family abroad a couple of times a

year on 'one year' passports ...... remember them

The only visa I ever needed was to India, never for the EU.


As for living and working in the EU, I have three cousins living there.


One took his family out to France about the 80's and bought barns

which he renovated and is still out there.


One went out there when she was 18 yrs in 1968 and is still out there


The other has lived in America and Malta and is now living in Italy and

has an olive grove.


So it can't be that difficult!!

a reply to: eletheia

People have always been able to travel, live and work across Europe. The difference is it will no longer be a right.

I think its unlikely there be onerous visa requirements for travel, however there may be some.

For work and residence it will be more complicated. Any agreement is going to reciprocal so if we maintain the same level of freedom as now then so will EU citizens to the UK. Kind of undermines one of the main reasons given for leaving.

a reply to: ScepticScot
Unlucky fella, we're leaving the EU no matter how much you whinge on ATS.
No second referendum for you lol.

Brexit is not a mess, it is sacrosanct! Brexit will be timely and HARD. There's no need for additional votes or "fixes" of any kind to it.

originally posted by: Flanker86
Brexit is not a mess, it is sacrosanct! Brexit will be timely and HARD. There's no need for additional votes or "fixes" of any kind to it.

I doubt that it will be hard as not even Theresa 'I am a political incompetent' May wants the country to commit economic suicide.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin



Some more than others or so it seems.

a reply to: andy06shake

Truly makes me want to vomit.
The inequalities in our country disgusts me....that so many people don't see that and ignorantly acquiesce to these inequalities dismays me.

a reply to: Freeborn

I'm surprised our beloved authorities were not out with the road sweepers cleaning up the homeless and undesirables for that royal wedding.

But hey, that is what our beloved boys and blue are for these days.

I think i know who the real criminals are to be honest, and they are not so much in it with us, as above us.

The current "Brexit deal" is essentially a brexit reversal ! Very dangerous to give in to EU and Macron's/Merkel arrogance.
Will the British houses of Parliament capitulate to Brussels in the coming times ? ...

a reply to: Flanker86
I don't think the deal will get through parliament.
The DUP will reject it and others from the Conservatives and Labour will too.
Even the Brexit secretary, Dominic Raab, has just resigned this morning stating...

For my part, I cannot support the proposed deal for two reasons. First, I believe that the regulatory regime proposed for Northern Ireland presents a very real threat to the integrity of the United Kingdom. Second, I cannot support an indefinite backstop arrangement, where the EU holds a veto over our ability to exit.

I don't understand why anyone would want the proposed deal. It is worse than remaining in the EU!

Teresa May has said that it's either HER DEAL or NO DEAL.

So if she keeps her word then we are heading for a no deal Brexit.

a reply to: Flanker86

supposedly May had a technical deal , and was supposed to give a public address at 9pm last night , however hadnt addressed the house !

a reply to: 83Liberty




Lol!! I think we have had a double agent with Theresa May .....

An original remainer working at getting us out

originally posted by: Flanker86
The current "Brexit deal" is essentially a brexit reversal ! Very dangerous to give in to EU and Macron's/Merkel arrogance.
Will the British houses of Parliament capitulate to Brussels in the coming times ? ...

Did Putin tell you to put that out? Putin is gonna be loving this dismemberment of western Europe but hey tell your boss we are gonna be just fine

Now I'm not stupid....no intellectual giant, but not stupid.

But I don't get this pile of codswallop.

As hard as I've tried I just can't seem to get my head around this....seems to me like a lot of words...with very very little substance.

I really don't see what's hard about it all; we are leaving the EU on March 29, 2019.
We want to continue trading with the EU.
We don't want Brussels to have any authority over the UK.
We still have common defence commitments and wish to keep these.
We will still co-operate on any security issues.

We've agreed a settlement bill - not that I agree with it but compromise is necessary.

Seems they've agreed details on UK nationals in the EU and EU citizens rights in the UK.
Never thought that would be a big sticking point.

Freedom of movement?
I'm prepared to wait a few minutes when entering EU countries if it'll stop the avalanche of Eastern Europeans.
I know its a little more complicated than that....but no bigee.

The obvious difficulty is the ROI border with Northern Ireland.
No-one wants a hard border there and no-one wants to provoke things and stir up trouble.

Not that hard is it?

a reply to: Freeborn

You failed to factor in that the majority of MP's are dead set against leaving the EU.

The tories have a majority in favour of remaining.


The deal...even the rubbish, remain heavy one that May has gotten, is more remaining than leaving. Apart from comedy value I don't have much time for BoJo but he was right when he stated this deal was, in effect, going to make the UK a vassal state.



Those supposedly representing us have done their damndest over the last couple of years to concoct such an awful deal that they are hoping to sway enough people that they can somehow fiddle a remain outcome. They are still at it.

a reply to: SprocketUK

I agree entirely with you.

Its been a farce from the moment we shocked the establishment and voted to leave.

Theresa May was handed a poisoned chalice by that coward Cameron.
But she hasn't helped herself.
She did absolutely nothing for a year and the country was adrift rudderless for all that time.

She should have immediately appointed a cross-party committee with co-opted business leaders given the responsibility of mapping out and detailing what WE wanted from the EU.
We should have had clearly defined goals and objectives and contingency plans before we entered any negotiations with the EU.

Instead we are left with something that as far as I can make out is a capitulation and a sell out of the British people that does none of us any good.

Of course all the politicians were, and still are, Remainers and they've done everything possible to derail negotiations and dilute any demands we had.
They are traitorous scum and their heads should adorn Westminster Bridge for all to take note!

Boris Johnson was a Remainer and only swapped sides as he was given the chance to be the public face of Brexit.
It was all about boosting his profile and ego and nothing to do with his own political convictions - to be fair I don't think he has any other than personal advancement and self-aggrandisement.

We've been sold down the river....I know its a change of mind but now I firmly believe that we, the electorate, should have the final say on this 'deal'.
I say NAY and am now all for a so-called hard Brexit.

You serve your sentence and then LEAVE prison.....

You can leave a marriage.....

You can dissolve a business partnership.....

You can change your bank ......

You can leave a job ......

You are free to change your doctor/dentist....

You can leave your club/gym......

But like the Hotel California .......

THE EU WILL NOT LET THE UK LEAVE THE CLUTCHES OF THE EU.


WHY a deal We just LEAVE

a reply to: Freeborn


Well put.

I think though, the damage has been done. From the top of the government to the back benches of the opposition, they have screwed us.

Instead of paying 10 billion or whatever it was to do up parliament, we should spend a few hundred and have it burned to the ground so we can start again with a political system that isn't utterly corrupt and immoral.

a reply to: SprocketUK

The party political system has outlived its fit for purpose and only serves to maintain the status quo.
The status quo that enables a political and established elite to maintain its control and grip on the majority of British people.
It is those very same majority of British people who are still being used, manipulated and exploited but are the one's who actually made this country great and continue to do so.

Enough is enough and its time to set aside our petty differences and rid ourselves of these scumbags forever.