F.B.I. Raids Office of Trump’s Longtime Lawyer Michael Cohen

originally posted by: Meniscus
So basically this is a fishing expedition to find out if the money came from a loan against the campaign? And where the money came from to pay it back? That seems like a pretty low standard to raid multiple locations of a lawyer representing the president. Its not out of the realm of possibility that Cohen working on behalf of the Trump organization not the campaign itself made the payment using Trumps personal money.

It's not a fishing expedition at all. This is something Cohen bragged about doing on television, a couple weeks ago... he essentially went on nationwide TV and said he committed a felony in Trumps name (he also retracted that today and said he was just joking, again on TV). It's also something that has been an ongoing case for awhile, likely that TV admission a week or two ago was the final nail in the coffin that got the approvals in place for this.

Also, FEC violations are no joke. Not running afoul of these laws is the whole reason PAC's exist.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

He used the referral to not taint the evidence he is seeking. Mueller didn't hand evidence to the local fbi office with proof of a crime. Other wise why the "taint team".

The Ny fbi did the raid so Mueller wouldn't break confidentiality.

The second fbi team goes over what was seized and makes a determination on what would break the lawyer client confidentiality. Then the fbi goes to a judge with the evidence that they say wouldn't break confidentiality then the judge determines weather to turn it over to Mueller's team. Is the way I understand it.

originally posted by: Meniscus
a reply to: Phage

Its not bank fraud. Personal equity loan. You can spend it on anything. The bank doesn't care what its for.

No you can't. Spending money in a coordinated fashion with a Presidential campaign is considered a gift. The legal maximum is $2700.

You can spend money in an uncoordinated fashion, such as taking out TV ad's to support a candidate without having any meetings with them, but that would mean there was never an agreement between Stormy/Trump in that case, because Cohen never would have coordinated anything. It would also raise a question as to why Cohen was reimbursed for the exact amount he gave Stormy as there are legal limitations as to what campaign funds may be spent on. It also brings up various tax issues.

originally posted by: Meniscusthen the judge determines weather to turn it over to Mueller's team. Is the way I understand it.

Muellers team isn't involved in this, beyond the initial referral.

a reply to: Aazadan

Dershowitz is all over the news saying Mueller violated Trumps rights. It doesn't sound like two seperate investigations.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Aazadan

How do they know which communication is in which group until it is examined? ESP?

Unfortunately, according to the law experts on the internet,
they just take it all and sort it out later.

Yep, its called a "taint team".

So expect a lot of leaks from the haters as they sift
through all of these communications to find the
"relevant" information.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Bicent

Perhaps that is true, but I am still godsmacked on how that would prove Russian collusion.

Who said it does?

I thought the inclusion of “taxi medallions” among the items seized from Cohen’s offices was a rather odd bit.

And, as asked, what coukd the raid in Cohen’s office have to do with the question of Russian collusion, which would fall under Mueller’s investigation.

Did a bit of digging and found Evgeny A. Freidman, known as the Taxi King of NYC, who, with his partners was arrested for theft and tax evasion. Unrelated to this matter, but got me thinking.

It’s is a looong, speculative stretch, but it got me to wonder if maybe the Russian mob might have its bloody fingers somehow entwined in the NYC taxi medallion operations.

It has been speculated that the FBI would not have considered a raid on Cohen’s office unless they thought that there were bigger fish to fry than hush money payments to a porn star.

And Mueller handed the information that the FBI used for their warrants over because?

Technically, illegal dealings with the Russian mob doesn’t, directly translate to “Russian collusion”, but could Cohen be suspected of being a “cut-out” of some kind?

a reply to: Bhadhidar

I think the question of money laundering and Russia have been on the table for some time.

originally posted by: Meniscus
a reply to: Aazadan

Dershowitz is all over the news saying Mueller violated Trumps rights. It doesn't sound like two seperate investigations.

Dershowitz is a partisian hack (yes, I'm aware he's a registered Democrat).

Sessions, Rosenstein, a federal judge, two US attorneys, and others had to sign off on this raid. Oddly enough, everyone involved was a Republican and appointed by Trump himself.

Trumps only legal defense remaining is to conflate the issues, try to make a case that Mueller is over reaching, that the investigation has gone off the rails, and hope he has enough political capital to fire Mueller and anyone else investigating him. Dershowitz is playing along with that strategy.

In fact, Dershowitz and Trump just had dinner tonight in order to discuss their strategy. Trump seems to be trying to recruit him to be the next addition to his legal team.

www.cnn.com...

Trump will probably go down as one of the most corrupt people in the United States of America. He ran scams like Trump University to con struggling people out of their money. He lent his name to pyramid schemes. He bankrupted casinos and still somehow made millions while others were left holding the bag. He refused to pay vendors. He exploited foreign workers. He used illegal labor. He discriminated against African-American renters. He violated antitrust laws. He did business with the mob and with Eastern European kleptocrats. His properties became the go-to vehicle for Russian oligarchs and mobsters to launder their money.

Each one of these well documented pieces of history doesn't seem to sway his base, the cognitive dissonance is impressive in its strength.

a reply to: Bhadhidar

I would look more into the fact that Cohen was cochair of the RNC finance committee. This status seems to be somewhat in doubt now as he was removed from the website listing it's members within minutes of the raid happening. However, this time a year ago there were 4 cochairs. Steve Wynn, Michael Cohen, Elliot Broidy, and Louis DeJoy.

Wynn went down for sexual harrassment.
Broidy is tied up in his own Russian investigation.
Cohen is what this thread is about.

DeJoy is the only one left.

This is speculation on my part, but given his position with the RNC there could be a lot of money laundering going on. That's where the news of potential bank fraud is coming from. If that speculation into the financial aspect of this is correct, there could be a massive takedown of the RNC in the future. It would also explain how Mueller initially came across this information, as financial records relating to Trump-Russia fall within his jurisdiction, but something relating to the Republican party and Russia that may have been discussed with Trump would fall outside of it.

a reply to: Aazadan

I saw the reports about them having dinner. To discuss the raid on Cohens offices.

a reply to: Meniscus

They were planning their media strategy. Coordinating messaging is important. Their message right now is to claim that the Mueller investigation is out of control, out of bounds, and has gone on too long. They're establishing a narrative in order to attempt to end it.

Trump has tried on numerous occasions already (at least three times since it started) but each time was convinced not to, through threatened resignations of his key staff members. Since those key staff members are no longer there though, there's not really anyone in place to stop him this time.

The thing is though, this other investigation, as well as investigations that various states have into Trump won't end. It just slows down one of them should it happen. Of course, that's all Trump is trying to do anyways... slow investigations down until he gets most or all of his term, and failing that, slow it down past midterms so he doesn't lose Congress in as big a landslide.

originally posted by: Meniscus

Documents suggest it came from the campaign.

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: Meniscus

They were planning their media strategy. Coordinating messaging is important. Their message right now is to claim that the Mueller investigation is out of control, out of bounds, and has gone on too long. They're establishing a narrative in order to attempt to end it.

Trump has tried on numerous occasions already (at least three times since it started) but each time was convinced not to, through threatened resignations of his key staff members. Since those key staff members are no longer there though, there's not really anyone in place to stop him this time.

The thing is though, this other investigation, as well as investigations that various states have into Trump won't end. It just slows down one of them should it happen. Of course, that's all Trump is trying to do anyways... slow investigations down until he gets most or all of his term, and failing that, slow it down past midterms so he doesn't lose Congress in as big a landslide.

That has been the same message for some time now. Trump says out of control investigation. His retractors respond with well he keeps trying to fire Mueller and wants it to end. I think both are true.

a reply to: Meniscus

It is against the law to lie to a federal institution like a bank to obtain a loan. What do you suppose he told the bank he needed the money for?

a reply to: Sillyolme

It's possible they didn't ask what the money was for since he put up his home as collateral and seems to have the finances to pay it back.

That's not really where the issue is.

If he made this payment uncoordinated with Trump, then it means Trump wasn't party to their contract so it's invalid. It also means that he effectively gifted the campaign $130,000 which is well above the $2,700 legal limit. Cohen in this case committed a serious FEC violation. Then there's a secondary charge waiting when you begin asking why the campaign then paid Cohen $130,000 in reimbursement.

If it was coordinated with Trump, then it means they conspired to spend $130,000 of campaign funds illegally. Cohen and Trump conspired to commit a serious FEC violation in this case.

a reply to: Meniscus

No. You have it all backwards. The judge has,already reviewed the evidence and approved the search warrant. That judge doesn't care if they find what they're looking for. Just that they had a good enough reason to execute the search. The N.Y. federal prosecutor will now decide if they have evidence to indict Cohen.

a reply to: Meniscus

Of course he is. That's his job. He happens to be completely wrong he knows it but he has to make political noise for the president.