The Myth of Hell

a reply to: Ursushorribilis

Can you quote old testament scripture that mentions hell?

Psalm 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

In my bible there is mention of hell 31 times in 7 books of OT alone. That is starting with the oldest book in the bible called Job so it has been around a long time before Jesus.

Job_11:8 It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?
Job_26:6 Hell is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering.

a reply to: Seede

Aren't those actually referring to sheol?

originally posted by: Pinocchio
a reply to: All Seeing Eye

The Bible:

Cain > Cultivation And Irrigation Nourishes (C = Compass)

Abel > Animal Bearing Enriches Life (Æ = Æye)...

Seth > Soldiers Establish True Honor (S = Square)...

BTW= Æye is pronounced "Eheieh" and translated into "I Am That I Am"... But You Can Call It "Eye"
Or "All Seeing Eye".

Compass + Æye + Sqaure = Freemason...

My Mindless Babblings Amount To Comedy And Irony And Loneliness.

Firmament...

My Mindless Babblings Amount To Comedy And Irony And Loneliness.

It is said that the highly intelligent make good comedians and have a great senses of humor. And if you look at the great ones it actually does bare out to be true. And I have to admit, this site cracks me up sometimes. It truly is a very lonely world, of the "intellectuals". I can empathize with you.

The term "all Seeing Eye", in my humble opinion, has been hijacked from its rightful owner. And as far as "Secret Societies", I just don't see it to be a attribute of mammalian life forms. Besides, the only thing a secret society does is to weaken and divide. And to keep the "Secret", a secret, at all costs, will in the end, cost us everything.

And that, is Firm.

a reply to: Seede

In my bible there is mention of hell 31 times in 7 books of OT alone. That is starting with the oldest book in the bible called Job so it has been around a long time before Jesus.

As mentioned earlier in the thread... there is no description of "hell" in the OT...

Sheol = "The unseen" in hebrew

The whole burning/lake of fire thing didn't come along until the NT... And likely well after Jesus was executed

added to instill fear for conversion purposes

in other words.... Not real

a reply to: Akragon

Of course there wasn't, it didn't exist yet, which is the reason WHY hell didn't come along until the NT.

As for the descriptions of "hell", He sends people back by the thousands on a daily basis.

Not real? Well see won't we, these people below already have...

Obviously, atheists have no reason to scare people into converting.


Ian McCormack - Atheist - Dead on Morgue Slab

ATHEIST PROFESSOR IN HELL - Howard Storm

Ronald Reagan - An atheist saw Hell

a reply to: Murgatroid

Oh i see...

So when Jesus came on the scene he also made a new place for people to burn

LOL... Gotcha chief!

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Seede

In my bible there is mention of hell 31 times in 7 books of OT alone. That is starting with the oldest book in the bible called Job so it has been around a long time before Jesus.

As mentioned earlier in the thread... there is no description of "hell" in the OT...

Sheol = "The unseen" in hebrew

The whole burning/lake of fire thing didn't come along until the NT... And likely well after Jesus was executed

added to instill fear for conversion purposes

in other words.... Not real

You are correct: "Sheol" referred to the grave, the pit, the realm of the dead where the body returned to dust and the Spirit returned to God Who gave It. Yes, unseen and unknown as well.

Further, "Hades" is the best Greek word to translate "sheol," but it carries some unfortunate theo-illogical baggage. Translating it as "Hell" is not justified.

"Gehenna" was a place in the real world of Jesus' time - again, clearly not Hell.

Tartarus, again from Greek mythology, was used ONCE and so theology should not be hung on it.

Hell, the word, comes from the languages of north Europe, from a time when its peoples were pagan. Therefore, if you subscribe to Hell theology, you are unknowingly giving the nod to paganism, to the Norse goddess Hel and her realm of Helheim.

originally posted by: Seede

In my bible there is mention of hell 31 times in 7 books of OT alone.

Yes, but "hell" in the OT is translated from "sheol," which is rendered as "the grave" or "the pit" about an equal number of times. I know. I checked. The translators were not entirely consistent, but when context allowed, they generally made "sheol" into "hell." Otherwise, it was "grave" and "pit."

a reply to: silo13

He actually taught more about money than anything else, I believe - I've heard it stated numerous times by established ministers..

a reply to: Ursushorribilis
What the h*ll is HELL anyway? Are you going there?

Myth 2: The Wicked Suffer in Hell

What is the origin of the myth?

“Of all classical Greek philosophers, the one who has had the greatest influence on traditional views of Hell is Plato.”​—Histoire des enfers (The History of Hell), by Georges Minois, page 50.

“From the middle of the 2nd century AD Christians who had some training in Greek philosophy began to feel the need to express their faith in its terms . . . The philosophy that suited them best was Platonism [the teachings of Plato].”​—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1988), Volume 25, page 890.
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What does the Bible say?

“For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, . . . for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going.”​—Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10, Revised Standard Version.

The Hebrew word Sheol, which referred to the “abode of the dead,” is translated “hell” in some versions of the Bible. What does this passage reveal about the condition of the dead? Do they suffer in Sheol in order to atone for their errors? No, for they “know nothing.” That is why the patriarch Job, when suffering terribly because of a severe illness, begged God: “Protect me in hell [Hebrew, Sheol].” (Job 14:13; Douay-Rheims Version) What meaning would his request have had if Sheol was a place of eternal torment? Hell, in the Biblical sense, is simply the common grave of mankind, where all activity has ceased.

Is not this definition of hell more logical and in harmony with Scripture? What crime, however horrible, could cause a God of love to torture a person endlessly? (1 John 4:8)
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FACT:

God does not punish people in hell

Babylon the Great: Reasoning

Ancient Babylonian religious concepts and practices are found in religions worldwide

“Egypt, Persia, and Greece felt the influence of the Babylonian religion . . . The strong admixture of Semitic elements both in early Greek mythology and in Grecian cults is now so generally admitted by scholars as to require no further comment. These Semitic elements are to a large extent more specifically Babylonian.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria (Boston, 1898), M. Jastrow, Jr., pp. 699, 700.

Their gods: There were triads of gods, and among their divinities were those representing various forces of nature and ones that exercised special influence in certain activities of mankind. (Babylonian and Assyrian Religion, Norman, Okla.; 1963, S. H. Hooke, pp. 14-40) “The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher’s [Plato’s] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions.”—Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel (Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.

Use of images: “[In Mesopotamian religion] the role of the image was central in the cult as well as in private worship, as the wide distribution of cheap replicas of such images shows. Fundamentally, the deity was considered present in its image if it showed certain specific features and paraphernalia and was cared for in the appropriate manner.”—Ancient Mesopotamia—Portrait of a Dead Civilization (Chicago, 1964), A. L. Oppenheim, p. 184.

Belief regarding death: “Neither the people nor the leaders of religious thought [in Babylon] ever faced the possibility of the total annihilation of what once was called into existence. Death was a passage to another kind of life.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, p. 556.

Position of the priesthood: “The distinction between priest and layman is characteristic of this [Babylonian] religion.”—Encyclopædia Britannica (1948), Vol. 2, p. 861.

Practice of astrology, divination, magic, and sorcery: Historian A. H. Sayce writes: “[In] the religion of ancient Babylonia . . . every object and force of nature was supposed to have its zi or spirit, who could be controlled by the magical exorcisms of the Shaman, or sorcerer-priest.” (The History of Nations, New York, 1928, Vol. I, p. 96) “The Chaldeans [Babylonians] made great progress in the study of astronomy through an effort to discover the future in the stars. This art we call ‘astrology.’”—The Dawn of Civilization and Life in the Ancient East (Chicago, 1938), R. M. Engberg, p. 230.

Babylon the Great is like an immoral harlot, one living in shameless luxury

Revelation 17:1-5 says: “‘Come, I will show you the judgment upon the great harlot who sits on many waters [peoples], with whom the kings [political rulers] of the earth committed fornication, whereas those who inhabit the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.’ . . . And upon her forehead was written a name, a mystery: ‘Babylon the Great, the mother of the harlots and of the disgusting things of the earth.’” Revelation 18:7 adds that “she glorified herself and lived in shameless luxury.”

Is it not true that the dominant religious organizations have made it a practice to consort with political rulers for power and material gain, though this has resulted in suffering for the common people? Is it not also true that their higher clergy live in luxury, even though many of the people to whom they should minister may be impoverished?

Current events-The End of False Religion is imminent!

Along with Plato, Aristotle is considered the "Father of Western Philosophy", which from his teachings inherited almost its entire lexicon, including problems and methods of inquiry, so influencing almost any form of knowledge known to the modern world.
...
In metaphysics, Aristotelianism profoundly influenced Jewish and Islamic philosophical and theological thought during the Middle Ages and continues to influence Christian theology, especially the Neoplatonism of the Early Church and the scholastic tradition of the Catholic Church. Aristotle was well known among medieval Muslim scholars, and has been revered as "The First Teacher" (Arabic: المعلم الأول‎).

Source: Aristotle - Wikipedia

Remember what Jesus said about not calling anyone on earth your father or Rabbi (teacher)? When you follow their teachings (adhere to, believe, promote, express, argue in favor of, etc.) they are still your spiritual fathers and teachers (even when there were other teachers in between or one argues to oneself it was revealed to them by holy spirit or personal enlightenment) and their spritual father is Satan.

The Church Fathers—Advocates of Bible Truth?

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After even this brief examination of the historical backdrop of the Church Fathers, as well as the origins of their teachings, it is appropriate to ask, Should a sincere Christian base his or her beliefs on the teachings of the Church Fathers? Let the Bible answer.

For one thing, Jesus Christ himself ruled out the use of the religious title “Father” when he said: “Do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One.” (Matthew 23:9) The use of the term “Father” to designate any religious figure is unchristian and unscriptural. The written Word of God was completed about 98 C.E. with the writings of the apostle John. Thus, true Christians do not need to look to any human as the source of inspired revelation. They are careful not to ‘make the word of God invalid’ because of human tradition. Letting human tradition take the place of God’s Word is spiritually lethal. Jesus warned: “If . . . a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”​—Matthew 15:6, 14.

Does a Christian need any revelation besides the word of God as contained in the Bible? No. The book of Revelation cautions against adding anything to the inspired record: “If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll.”​—Revelation 22:18.

Christian truth is embodied in the written Word of God, the Bible. (John 17:17; 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 John 1-4) The correct understanding of it does not hinge on secular philosophy. Regarding men who tried to use human wisdom to explain divine revelation, it is fitting to repeat the apostle Paul’s questions: “Where is the wise man? Where the scribe? Where the debater of this system of things? Did not God make the wisdom of the world foolish?”​—1 Corinthians 1:20.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

No - He did not.

Really.

a reply to: Barcs

Aren't those actually referring to sheol?

Yes. Actually in the JPS Tanakh the word Nether World is used in place of Hell. The word Sheol and the word Gehennom is also intermixed in reference to Hell. There may be other bibles that use these and other words in the same meaning. I used the KJV Hell.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Barcs

Aren't those actually referring to sheol?

Yes. Actually in the JPS Tanakh the word Nether World is used in place of Hell. The word Sheol and the word Gehennom is also intermixed in reference to Hell. There may be other bibles that use these and other words in the same meaning. I used the KJV Hell.

Yeah, but the original language used sheol, which doesn't actually mean hell, it means a place of darkness which isn't dependent on one's moral choices in life. It's not a place of punishment or eternal damnation run by Satan like in the Christian version of hell, it's completely different. Sheol is divided into compartments, where righteous people reside as well, it's not exclusively a place of punishment. It's more like the world of the dead / afterlife. It's night and day from the Christian hell, which is clearly a fear based control mechanism that greatly exaggerated the Hebrew concept of sheol to help keep people loyal and create more followers.

a reply to: Barcs

S&F...

a reply to: Akragon

The whole burning/lake of fire thing didn't come along until the NT... And likely well after Jesus was executed added to instill fear for conversion purposes in other words.... Not real

I do have to admit that it is a matter of belief. Naturally the entire bible is based upon theology and naturally that means that no one can prove it real or unreal. Nevertheless the dates of his life are greatly disputed and would not not argue that point whatsoever. The Jewish Timeline Encyclopedia records his prophecies beginning in 594 BCE and in the 65th and 66th chapters of Isaiah he agrees with the book of Revelation.

KJV bible - Isaiah 66:22-24

(22) For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
(23) And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
(24) And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Yes, but "hell" in the OT is translated from "sheol," which is rendered as "the grave" or "the pit" about an equal number of times. I know. I checked. The translators were not entirely consistent, but when context allowed, they generally made "sheol" into "hell." Otherwise, it was "grave" and "pit."

At one time, and I do not have my material at hand, the cultures of Abram's era did bury their dead and did understand that their fathers were gathered together someplace as a clan, but they did not understand exactly where that place was. Many would bury their dead with hollow tubes in order to feed and water their ancestors. Gradually this morphed into a belief that the dead were gathered, consciously, into a realm in the earth. They were aware of spiritual life but were unable to cross the boundaries of the spiritual world.

This thinking was not overnight belief. It took many years for this to develop. This type of belief was that of which existed when Jesus came upon the scene. It is explained in the narrative of the rich man and the beggar in Luke 16:19-31.
The Hebrews adopted this belief of a nether world which contained seven divisions of separation of various spirits of the dead. This became known as the realm of Sheol and later as the abode of Abraham (Bosom of Abraham).

Eventually the thinkers began to question how to get out of this place. They were taught eventually the world would be destroyed and how can they escape if they are contained in the earth? So they developed an escape plan. That plan was that everyone would be resurrected and climb back into that body that was in the dirt. Then everyone would be judged
and sorted into groups.

The righteous would be given a place in the bundle of heavenly life as a bodyless spirit forever. The rest would remain in Sheol for one year to purify their soul and then send the offenders back to this world in order to get it right. That was actually reincarnation. Eventually everyone came out being a good guy and rested in heavenly bliss in the bundle of life.

But then came Jesus with an altogether different doctrine. There would be no purgation of the soul. No one year punishment . No bodyless spirit. Jesus taught one life and one physical death. One judgment and only one chance to get it right. Once in Hell always in hell till hell is cast into the ethereal eternal fire. A new celestial body and a new celestial city to live in. A chance to become a citizen of God and live forever in a new heaven and new earth.

This was a new doctrine that no one had ever heard before. So actually Sheol or Hell was not forever in either case but was temporary in both cases.

I'm glad hell doesn't exist or else I'd have a very bad time when I die.