The Myth of Hell

a reply to: Raggedyman

Dude... I don't have to back it up with scripture

Condemning people to eternal hellfire is something christians do...

Not something jewish people do...

Thus it comes from the NT alone... Regardless of if its actually stated in the NT that said torture is eternal for humanity

What don't you get?

Are you really that thick?

Lol cripes man

originally posted by: Akragon

Dude... I don't have to back it up with scripture

Well duh, thats obvious Ak, you never have

Just pointing out the banal nonsense, complete childish fabrications, common ignorance and lack of accountability for your words in your posts is all

But hay, you just go ahead and call me a donkey.
That will smear the issue of you not having anything valid to say to justify your constant tantrums here when someone proves you are

tantrums... Right

Lol

If you say so man..

Well, Trump is good at firing people, maybe we are in Hell and just don't know it.

originally posted by: Akragon
tantrums... Right

Lol

If you say so man..

Ok let's get back to you saying that Christians all say punishment is eternal for humanity in hell

Care to back that up with something, anything

Let's not play the you are a donkey, no you are, childish games you are so adept to do and explain your belief hell punishment is eternal
Easy Peasy Ak?

Or here is another option for you to consider
Some Christians don't believe hell is eternal, but that option might be humiliating, maybe

a reply to: Raggedyman

I didn't say all christians did i...

Lol... Donkey

There is a video testimony on the web which has been circulated innumerable times which consists of a young Ecuadorian girl, Angelica Zambrano, who apparently was the daughter of a pastor in a particular church of evangelical type. She allegedly had a 'miraculous' visionary experience in which she was told by other church members that she was going to die, and that she would see visions of hell, and that she shouldn't be afraid, that God would be testing her, and so on.

Well, after MANY repeated instances within the span of long hours where she was being 'prepped' with this information in intense 'prayer circle' type gatherings between the homes of a few members of the church, she indeed did sink into some sort of visionary state. She genuinely believes in the legitimacy of what she then experienced. She saw visions of Jesus, she saw visions of Hellfire, she saw visions afterwards of well-known Biblical figures like David, Samson, Moses, Joseph & so on.

She speaks on camera for about an hour or so, from memory. It became clear to me while watching this video that the girl, while recounting the visionary experience for the camera, was in fact fully immersed in a post-hypnotic trance.

Please understand that this is not a guess. I'm qualified as a professional hypnotherapist. I know that her bodily/ facial behaviours & the manner & content of speech was fully controlled by post-hypnotic suggestion, and by the memory of an hypnotic experience. Among other inconsistencies of logic which are inherent to her condition, she couldn't describe having seen anyone who could be identified by actual facial appearances, such as Paul the Apostle, for whom we have images in ancient churches (mosaics). She could not describe anything of any real-world importance having been said to her in the visionary sequence. None of the Biblical characters (including Jesus) spoke to her with anything other than general Christian moralising - IE, no real-world useful information Even what was spoken was not spoke for her benefit, or for the benefit of society - the only benefactor was the church to which she belonged, as there were some specific injunctions about behavioural standards within that very specific, small church, which had a clearly cult-like devotion to only one pastor & only one slant of the gospel message. That's a charge which could be leveled at many churches, I get that - but this was eerily specific regarding believing in the particular pastor & young women not tempting him or his servants to sin.

That which most grievously demonstrated that the entire thing was an exercise in one pastor (& his closest acolytes) having his church exalted, was that she claimed Jesus walked with her in Hell, and was weeping over the fate of the people who were there. He was apparently upset & saddened (to tears of deep compassion) for the victims, but He claimed He could do nothing for them because they had refused to believe in Him while they were alive. Which is ridiculous in & of itself - but what comes next is abhorrent.

CHILDREN under the age of ten years old were allegedly in Hell too. And their crime? Playing Pokemon. Apparently they were knowingly glorifying & worshiping demons by so engaging with the heavily marketed children's game & the associated TV shows. ARRRRGH...!!! What a pile of utter crap. At this stage in the video (forty minutes in, perhaps) I was paying close attention to her facial features/ contortions as she spoke - her eyes had utterly glazed over, she was operating rhythmically, the voice was lilting monotonously, and her actual expressions were twisted, in flowing phased grimaces. This clearly belied her hypnotised state; her unconscious mind was rebelling against the conditioning. Her fear & disgust at what she was saying were deeply evident, because her features were twisting horribly - psychically she was trying to escape her conditioning, but felt powerless to do so because of the general fear of Hellfire & damnation which had been foisted upon her young mind by the feverish hypnotic experience of the repeated 'prayer circle' events prior to the full-blown 'death & visionary state' hypnotic trance.

Indeed, if anything, she looked as what can only be characterised to be 'demonised' or tormented, trying to force her superego to believe in what was foisted upon her ego. She knew it was absurd & evil to claim that children were being eternally tortured for playing a harmless children's game - one which was levied upon the wider society by marketing executives & TV producers at that, and which the parents are thus pushed into purchasing for their young ones, without any malice or will of any sort which can be considered to be evil or of ill motive.

As if the God of the incomprehensibly vast & beautiful universe of which we are a small but coherent & joyful part could ever torture eternally the children who are the most innocent of all in our vast human civilisation!

No wonder the girl was becoming de facto demonised right there on camera as she gave her (clearly well-orchestrated) testimony - she was pressured to accept & adopt a demonic false precept, and to promote it shamelessly as a vision of great joy & beatitude before the entire world!

AMERICAN pastors of all sorts have regurgitated this nonsense forcefully & with great solemnity in front of hundreds of thousands, millions of audience members. At a women's conference was one example in which I first heard of the testimony, and I watched with horror as a room full of mothers & grandmothers nodded with serious& conviction when being told, in severe tone, that children were burning in Hell, and Jesus wasn't doing anything but walking past effectively thumbing the nose (while weeping) saying "I told you so".

NOT ONE OF THOSE THOUSANDS OF MOTHERS & GRANDMOTHERS STOOD UP TO REBUKE THE DECEPTIVE, SERPENTINE VITRIOL.

What hope is there for the wider Christian world if this BULL# is lapped up by the very women who should be challenging it?

I want to be clear - I am a deeply committed Christan. I've struggled to reconcile my faith & reason at times over the years, but never have I been so viscerally horrified, existentially mortified, than when I witnessed the scene from that women's conference on my TV screen here in the UK, on the God Channel. I was appalled. I couldn't bring myself to think further on the matter for several years, and indeed only recently did I make a point of watching the entire testimony.

I am fully satisfied that not only is the testimony a LIE, but it is a carefully orchestrated example of systematic ideological abuse of a minor, and it demonstrates unequivocally that the girl was subjected to no less than ritual 'black magical' hypnotic action, to subjugate her conscience & will, to be replaced by the evil will of the pastor & church elders (assuming there are any). That 'church' is a cult. Whether the main body of members knows that, is up for debate - I do not have access to further information on the organisation, so cannot say for definite. However, the pastor is guilty, elders also.

This is what Jesus meant when he said that there are wolves in disguise among the flock.


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God help us to recognise the truth, so that the Truth may set us free.



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a reply to: FlyInTheOintment
Thanks for the information.

It is very interesting.

The moment you mentioned hypnotic experience, I suddenly recalled John of Patmos who later wrote the book of Revelation. I don't know why. But I have this weird feeling, that John of Patmos could have been hypnotized by similiar experience, by a black magic christian cult.

I greatly appreciate your opinion as a professionl hypnotheraphist.

What do think of the many YouTube videos of people having vision of hell and Jesus?

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment

This is what Jesus meant when he said that there are wolves in disguise among the flock.


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God help us to recognise the truth, so that the Truth may set us free.



*** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***

The wolves in disguised have been existed since the early churches. You can tracked them down by the many gnostics manuscipts.

Yes, pray the Lord to give you strength to find the truth every night before you sleep. There are more to be revealed if you seek it.

a reply to: Akragon

No, it's not something *we* do. It is something that has been done already. It is the law.

I don't have any more power to send you to hell than anyone else in your life.

How many times have you been told you're going to hell by someone here on earth? Has it worked yet? No. So no one here can do it. Trying to tell us all that Christians condemn people to hell is simply a pretty fiction you tell yourself. Only God can do that, and He has told us all exactly how that happens. If you choose not believe Him, that's no one's problem but your own.

a reply to: ketsuko

No, it's not something *we* do. It is something that has been done already. It is the law.

yeah... it is something Christians do... perhaps not you, but many love to preach about hell and damnation, and throw it in other peoples faces. And don't even try to tell me they don't..

I don't have any more power to send you to hell than anyone else in your life.

How many times have you been told you're going to hell by someone here on earth? Has it worked yet? No. So no one here can do it.

Obviously no one can send me to a non existent place... but i have been hearing it from Christians all my life... there is a specific breed of Christians that do it on the regular. They simply attempt to hide their threats my calling it a warning... but in reality its a threat to anyone who doesn't believe what they choose to

Though IF you care to look at it from a Christian perspective... sure im headed in that direction because i don't believe what you and most of the Christians of this world believe... Jesus died for my sins... Nope...

Trying to tell us all that Christians condemn people to hell is simply a pretty fiction you tell yourself.

No its reality... again, not all of you use such tactics

Though i do agree... its complete fiction

Only God can do that, and He has told us all exactly how that happens. If you choose not believe Him, that's no one's problem but your own.

therein lies the problem... I don't believe YOUR god is in fact God

So i couldn't care less what threats He/she/it issues...

God would not send his children to such a place... and considering the place called "hell" isn't actually some spiritual lake of fire, but an actual place on this planet... which was explained in a post from another member... Theres nothing to worry about anyways

Personally i don't believe Jesus even spoke of such a place... Twas inserted into the texts for the purpose i've stated a few times already.... fear, control over the masses in a very turbulent time

What baffles me is that as a so called civilized and intelligent society we still believe in such things

originally posted by: Ghostsinthefog
What baffles me is that as a so called civilized and intelligent society we still believe in such things

Why does that 'baffle' you?

Those who don't believe are deaf, dumb and blind to the truth.

And sadly, the truth is right there in front of them and it's the BEST.

So, I would ask you.

What if you're wrong?

What if (and there is) a Christ - who - loves YOU so much He came and gave His life to save you for all eternity.

What if that's true?

You have a chance at everlasting life staring you straight in the face as you read this.

As you read this? Your life could change forever for the better - or not.

I hope you chose the right way and don't let your ego or your position here on ATS to allow you to reply with flippancy and anger and willful ignorance.

I so pray you'll realize, wow, eternity is a LONG time and it would absolutely ROCK if you were there with us too.

a reply to: Akragon

So basically, you're upset because people say things to you about a place you say you don't believe in?

Guess what? A lot of the kids I grew up with called me ugly all the time. Know what? I got over it and moved on.

Sounds to me like your feelings are hurt by what people are telling you. If you really didn't believe in what those people are saying, then it wouldn't bother you as much as it clearly seems to.

I am pretty sure I know what the Jehovah's Witnesses are thinking every time they leave my home, but oh well, it is what it is. I have my relationship with God, and whatever happens is between He and I and by His will at the end of the day, not dependent on their opinion.

Honestly, you should try that rather than grouse about people whose opinions are like well ... you know. We all have one.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Raggedyman

I didn't say all christians did i...

Lol... Donkey

No thats right, You didnt say ALL christians did you, YOU said the NT taught that humanity was eternal and would be punished forever
So, WHERE does it teach that in the NT ?

I know, ignore the question and post a donkey again

originally posted by: Akragon

Eternal torture and hellfire is strictly NT.... Judaism does not believe in such things

You are so banal

a reply to: ketsuko

See... Im not upset

But who appreciates a threat when a disagreement comes into a conversation

This happens naturally when talking about christianity... And again, its not with all christians

Some have just been brought up to automatically respond to disagrement with condemnation

a reply to: Raggedyman

I didn't say that either did i?

You posted what i actualy said a few times...

Why not one more ya?

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: Ursushorribilis
a reply to: silo13

The concept of Eternal hell wasn't introduced until the new Testament. The old testament doesn't mention hell.
What kind of Savior is Jesus if he brings Hellfire with him?

it does actually... many times

But theres no descriptions of what happens or what it looks like...

Eternal torture and hellfire is strictly NT.... Judaism does not believe in such things

Ahhm this? From the first page

so AGAIN
wher is "Eternal torture and hellfire is strictly NT "


I know, go the donkey and deny your own words Ak

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: Ursushorribilis
a reply to: silo13

The concept of Eternal hell wasn't introduced until the new Testament. The old testament doesn't mention hell.
What kind of Savior is Jesus if he brings Hellfire with him?

it does actually... many times

But theres no descriptions of what happens or what it looks like...

Eternal torture and hellfire is strictly NT.... Judaism does not believe in such things

Ahhm this? From the first page

so AGAIN
wher is "Eternal torture and hellfire is strictly NT "


I know, go the donkey and deny your own words Ak

Very good... which is where the idea came from... as i stated

Now...

Did i say who said eternal torture will be for?

Or was it YOU who asked where it says "humanity" will be destined for it?

a reply to: Akragon

Condemning people to eternal hellfire is something christians do... Not something jewish people do... Thus it comes from the NT alone... Regardless of if its actually stated in the NT that said torture is eternal for humanity

No Christians do not condemn anyone to hell. The Judge who is the Christ Jesus condemns and rewards each and every soul st their death.

Jesus' doctrine was not Christian as He taught His doctrine in His ministry. His church was established after He died and not while He lived. The synagogue of James [Nazarene's] was the forerunner of the the church of Jesus for about two decades. The church established Christianity several decades after Jesus had died and it was not the Roman organizations. Hell and Sheol are the same meaning, simply different languages and yes Hell did exist in the OT scriptures before Jesus came upon the scene. Torture is not of God and God's punishments are not forever according to Jesus' doctrine.