Vegas: Multiple Survivors/Eyewitness Tell of Multiple Shooters at Multiple Casinos

Okay, I have a new theory. What if the leaked crime scene pictures were taken by the real gunman as a big F.U. to everyone?

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
I've put this in several threads hoping to lay the police chopper footage to rest.
FAA Radar returns from Las Vegas near the Route 91 concert venue.
Seems all the helicopters but one were tourist flights followed by a Las Vegas PD chopper.
This is the one thought to be shooting due to bright flashes when it was in fact, a searchlight.

www.youtube.com...

Thank you for that! You really bring such great stuff to the discussion and I so appreciate it!

I was looking at yet another such video last night about the helicopters, showing how the gunfire seemed to be in sync with the nearing of the helicopter. But I wondered then -- and your post makes me wonder even more -- if perhaps the gunfire was deliberately timed with the helicopters passing in order to make it harder to hear which direction the gunfire was coming from... just bombarding the senses with the cacophony so to speak. And of course adding to the confusion and thus the panic.

originally posted by: Zoyd23
But a lot of critical thinkers are still questioning every detail until they're satisfied...

Given the overwhelming and positive reaction to this thread, I believe you're right. At least, if ATS is indicative of the people in general, then yes. People are still questioning and will continue to question.

Right now, the official story is neither logical nor credible, and the long list of witnesses of who claim they saw/heard multiple shooters suggests a larger game is afoot, and somewhere there may be evidence that will unravel this whole fishy, tragic performance.

Performance is a good word for what we're seeing. Lots of folks putting on a show for the masses.

And maybe somebody on ATS will figure out a more credible scenario...

It's funny you should say that! I was thinking last night that between all the threads and comments on ATS, I'll bet someone has already -- we just don't know it!!! Or probably more like a few have figured out certain parts.

And great post, Brodicaea!

Thank you

The "flash fighter" comparison video was interesting. The Smith Vortex flash fighter, for one, would make it very hard to spot a well positioned shooter. It reduces a two and a half foot blow torch flame discharge down to the size of a BIC lighter flame.

During the 9/11 aftermath one of the signs of government involvement in the atrocity was all the sorts of media coverage that one didn't see, that would have been expected in the coverage of many other major events. I don't want to get into talking about 9/11, but why haven't we seen, in the case of the Las Vegas massacre, a ground plan of the concert venue indicating where all of the fatalities fell?

One person who was at the concert said that she didn't see how some of the victims who were shot close to the stage could have been shot from the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay because they couldn't have been seen, or hit, from that vantage point due to the stage backdrop with its video projection screens. (Those were not her words. She said "the angle", but it is clear what she meant.)

a reply to: diggindirt

...am even more confused by the "leaked" information that keeps popping up from you know, "unidentified sources."

Me too. And I'm not sure how much is just people saying stupid things and how much is a deliberate attempt to focus attention on stupid things and away from relevant things.

I also know how very many of those videos must have been collected as evidence and how much time it is going to take to look at each one and try to stitch together an honest timeline of events.

Yes, it's a given that LE have video from all over the Strip and the casinos and probably all kinds of stores and restaurants.

And that would include any other shooters anywhere and everywhere. But would they tell us even if they knew? I don't think so. I also think it's possible that there were no other gunmen, but someones doing something to sound like gunfire and panic an already scared public. Something happened. People heard something. People saw something. People panicked at something. And the real panic at hotels and the videos and postings of the eyewitnesses does sync with the police audio. But whatever it was, telling us it was "nothing" isn't cutting it.

a reply to: TorqueyThePig

Thank you!

Now I'll just have to see if I can find times for when the "presidentofcanada" evacuated Hooters and saw what he claims is police shooting a gunman... and when the ambulances began staging at Hooters...

a reply to: Azureblue

Perhaps this above reply is not intended to be so, but something about this reply makes me immediately think this has been written by someone who is paid to attend these forums and write replies that cast doubt on the premise of the OP. When caught out, a flippant comment meant to minimise the impact of the lies told by the media and the official story, is then made.

Cant help but sense the touch of an uncle sam agency here.

As sad as it may sound, I would prefer that to believing that anyone could be so blase about government lying on such a grand scale... to the point of outright gaslighting.

a reply to: TorqueyThePig

Am I understanding correctly that the brightest muzzle flash would be seen from directly in front of the gun... and the greater the angle the less muzzle flash would be visible... if at all?

And if that's true, then wouldn't it also be true that anyone who had their camera angled in the right direction to catch the gunfire on camera would very likely have been struck with that gunfire?

Or am I just making stuff up now???

originally posted by: djz3ro
Okay, I have a new theory. What if the leaked crime scene pictures were taken by the real gunman as a big F.U. to everyone?

I think that's a very real possibility. The only other possibility I can see is that they were taken from police body cams upon entering. And I say that because it's obvious the crime scene had not yet been processed. With one possible exception, there were no other people in the pics -- which one would expect cops and detectives and Gmen everywhere. And because there are no evidence markers anywhere to be seen inside the room.

a reply to: ipsedixit

One person who was at the concert said that she didn't see how some of the victims who were shot close to the stage could have been shot from the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay because they couldn't have been seen, or hit, from that vantage point due to the stage backdrop with its video projection screens. (Those were not her words. She said "the angle", but it is clear what she meant.)

I've wondered about that too -- but just from the pics I've seen, not personal experience. But I had no idea how to confirm or debunk the thought. I might also depend on the shooter's position -- standing, kneeling or prone on the ground.

a reply to: Boadicea

Excellent work assembling all that in one thread.

While eyewitness claims are notoriously unreliable, all these transcripts and accounts taken together definitely point at multiple shooters.

I've seen that Rene Downs video as well as the interview, and was reading a thread on Youtube (I'd have to dig to find the link!) that she was responding in herself. Some people claimed that a rack of metal stands fell against the door, causing everyone to panic. Well if that were true, why is the Bellagio not releasing video of that to debunk everyone's claims?

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of casino video footage goes "missing".

a reply to: Boadicea

I suspect Paddock made his income by laundering money. The "gambling" winnings and real estate investments all point to that. Whether he operated in some Deep State capacity or had ties to some criminal network remains to be seen. Money-laundering is a dirty secret most Casinos prefer to ignore, but it does seem to be their bread and butter.

News broke days before the shootings of a big money-laundering operation busted in Vancouver, BC. Here's an article showing how real estate and casino gambling are linked with that: www.nationalobserver.com...
www.theprovince.com...

originally posted by: ChadeS
a reply to: Boadicea

Excellent work assembling all that in one thread.

Thank you!

While eyewitness claims are notoriously unreliable, all these transcripts and accounts taken together definitely point at multiple shooters.

That's why I thought it was important to do -- all the while fuming that no one in the media had done it already!!! Taken alone, the eyewitness claims are just that: unsubstantiated claims. Taken together with police audio and numerous similar accounts by other eyewitnesses makes it something real. At the very least, something happened which made people think there were other gunmen and gunfire. And this also indicates that the Route 91 shooting was only part of an greater operation with many players. And the "long gunman" story is just that: a fictional story.

I've seen that Rene Downs video as well as the interview, and was reading a thread on Youtube (I'd have to dig to find the link!) that she was responding in herself. Some people claimed that a rack of metal stands fell against the door, causing everyone to panic. Well if that were true, why is the Bellagio not releasing video of that to debunk everyone's claims?

If you ever come across that link, I hope you'll share -- I'd like to read that. And you're right that if Bellagio had a reasonable and innocent explanation for the events that night, they would be telling the whole world -- for their own best interests!

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of casino video footage goes "missing".

Indeed. Right down that alphabet agency rabbit hole. I expect that the Feds were taking video footage while folks were still locked up in ballrooms for their safety.

originally posted by: ChadeS
a reply to: Boadicea

I suspect Paddock made his income by laundering money. The "gambling" winnings and real estate investments all point to that. Whether he operated in some Deep State capacity or had ties to some criminal network remains to be seen.

Yeah, I believe "Paddock" was involved in something. And I do believe it was (mostly) on behalf of some federal agency -- FBI, ATF, and DHS would be my best guess. But perhaps Treasury as well given the possible money laundering connections. But I also think that for some reason the "Paddock" identity is borrowed or stolen or transferred or somehow became a "throwaway" identity so to speak. Maybe he even passed away recently. The brother said he hadn't spoken to his brother for six months, so the family may not have even known if he passed. It was a safe way to pin it on someone without pinning it on anyone... at least no one real or still living. Dead men tell no tales, right?

Money-laundering is a dirty secret most Casinos prefer to ignore, but it does seem to be their bread and butter.

News broke days before the shootings of a big money-laundering operation busted in Vancouver, BC. Here's an article showing how real estate and casino gambling are linked with that: www.nationalobserver.com...
www.theprovince.com...

Very interesting -- thank you! I'm not sure just how involved the Mafia still is in Vegas, but my husband and I were thinking that if they still have the power they once had, the perps should probably be much MUCH more afraid of them than the police. You don't mess with the Family and their business and get away with it.

Fantastic post! Thank you for the hard work in putting this all together.

I saw an interesting video last night about the helicopter gunfire theory. We're all familiar with that I think. But what really struck me is whoever is taking the video. Not panicking... not running... but very nonchalant about it all. Almost like a casual observer. Not someone under fire and fearing for their life. The one sharing the video and narrating comments on his seeming nonchalance as well.

Anyway, it is posted here in the first comment after the article by "Guest UF/ Khufu". And here's the YouTube:

originally posted by: MitchL61
Fantastic post! Thank you for the hard work in putting this all together.

Thank you! And you're welcome!!!

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: ipsedixit

I've wondered about that too -- but just from the pics I've seen, not personal experience. But I had no idea how to confirm or debunk the thought. I might also depend on the shooter's position -- standing, kneeling or prone on the ground.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned often, if at all is that you have to take into consideration, this was the end of a festival, people were drunk, high, coked up and all sorts, having worked a few festivals, let me tell you, people don't always know where they are. Though evidence should tell where people were hit...

I found a new survivor statement last night -- well, new to me! -- from Rick Ardito who was at the concert with his wife and friends. There is both a written statement and an interview podcast at the link, but I've only read the statement. I have not listened to the podcast. A couple things jumped out at me from the written statement:

We had considered sheltering in Hooters, then all of the sudden there was a massive panic and stampede of people trying to get away from Hooters. We started running again as fast as we could, unsure exactly what the panic was about.

This happened immediately after running from the shooting at the venue. So the (first?) panic at Hooters happened almost simultaneously with the gunfire at the venue -- or at the very least immediately after. But if the Route 91 gunfire lasted 10 minutes as reported, then it must have been simultaneous, because there's no way it would take more than 10 minutes to run from the venue to Hooters.

And then this:

We heard talk of multiple shooters in multiple locations. This was the point that I remembered how unreliable early information is in these situations. We didn’t know what was true that we were hearing, and what wasn’t....

As we approached McCaren airport we heard rumors that one of the shooters had stolen a Police vehicle during the Chaos.

I do note that he called the information about multiple shooters and a gunman stealing a police vehicle "rumors," and rightfully so because unless he had seen it with his own eyes, that's pretty much all it was. But it's noteworthy.

And it does cast some doubt on the police audio, as someone with nefarious intentions now had access to police communications, and the ability to taint those communications with false information.

a reply to: norhoc

The echoes are usually not repeat "echoes of discharging firearms" but more so the sound barier contrail lingering. It will kind of sound like the noise a craft with wings will make like a kite.

Growing up in the back country, I have heard guns, both semi and auto, fired in different environments and terrains like in canyons, near canyons, up against canyon walls, desert, forested areas and near large abandoned buildings and none ever echoed where you here a repeat of guns firing just the tricky wind sound.

The buildings are all far apart, because of parking spaces, inviting landscaping and wide streets, and not big enough to cause echoes or effect echoes on the strip.