Interesting new Vegas shooting detail emerges from Sheriff

Couple of things to add to this stinking rotten fish of a story.

No security cameras in the hallways so no footage to be released.

Paddock did not shoot himself with a rifle, the casings in blood are not from the fatal shots.
Or are they? If he didn't shoot himself they very well could be from the gun that killed him.

The rifle sitting in the doorway photo looks like an AR-10. Note the larger mag well. The AR-10 is a larger caliber weapon than the AR-15 (its .308 not .223 to use the non-metric measurements) Also the holes in the door appear to be .308 as opposed to the smaller .223 holes. I don't see a "bump fire" stock on that rifle. That means shooting 200 rounds would mean that gun would have to be a legit full auto, or it took a little while to fire those rounds off. Given that the rifle is set up with a long range scope. That rifle is very unlikely to be full auto or have a bump fire stock. Its set up to make long range shots. The .308 is very effective out to 800 -1000 yards. It caste some doubt on the 200 rounds in the hall story.
That assumes the rifle is the one used to shoot at the door of course.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

The trail of blood appears to go from his shoulder down his chest, too.

A redacted version I made:



I just think it looks like someone with a blood soaked hand held the revolver above the body after he was down, and then put it on the carpet above his head. There's not any noticeable velocity to the drops, either...they all look to have fallen from directly above where they fell rather than having been flung as the gun was *tossed* above the head.

Of course, I freely admit that I am no expert in blood spatter analysis...just my layperson opinion.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: soberbacchus

No, what they thought they had was an 'open door'. That is all the security guard was checking on. Thats it. No threats. No gunshots. He was looking into a door ajar....

So....

1. Who called it in as an open door? I cannot see someone staying there doing it so was it from video footage?
2. If that is the case where is the footage.

Yeah the whole security guard thing is weird, too... Who shoots at a guard and then goes on about their killing spree 6 minutes later, which probably felt like forever to the shooter, without making sure his threat was eliminated?

As one of the evil bastards that was in the original thread trying to knock down baseless conspiracy theories people were making up out of thin air, this new change to the timeline confused the # out of me I must say. I'll be interested to hear more about it.

originally posted by: matafuchs

But people do that ALL the time and leave a door open. You do not want to bring your key so you use the latch to keep it open. I have even been drunk and forgot it and not ONCE did I have the hotel contact me.

So, if they had an indication, then maybe someone was watching and after a certain amount of time the Security Guard was dispatched? Still...and open door in a hotel I have never heard causing a security check.

This is not in dispute. It is known policy and technology at Mandalay Bay. If the door is left open for a period of time, sensors alert and security checks in to make sure someone hasn't forgot to close their door etc.

originally posted by: 0x6372756d6273
a reply to: ZombieWoof

After watching the 60 minutes episode, and then looking at the picture of Paddock a second time... It all makes sense now.

One of the officers in the 60 minutes episode said that Paddock seemed to only be bleeding from the mouth, and he didn't see a gunshot to the head. After looking at the image again, it does look like a large amount of blood came out of his mouth only and eventually ended up on the carpet.

This makes sense to me, because I have seen the blood puddle of victims who have been shot in the head, and let me tell you, the puddle usually fills an area the size of a Twin size bed (39x74 inches) around the entire victim. Its a lot of blood. The picture of Paddock in no way looks like a head shot to me, at least not one that should have exited out the rear of his skull, there is just not enough blood. Looks like he was killed in some other fashion that involved the mouth.

Also, how do they explain the blood on his shirt?

What I would like to know.
How does blood POOL in his mouth?
If he puts the gun in his mouth and shoots himself, it would cause massive damage to the central nervous system. Shutting down respiratory function and heart beat.
So if he falls on his back he has a massive wound on the back of his head which would allow gravity to pull all of the fluids out of that wound. What would cause the blood to pool in his mouth like it is?
I don't know why it would do that?
It seems to me that to pool like that there would need to be circulatory functions to pump it into his mouth or respiratory function to push it out of his lungs. That seems to me to indicate he may have been shot in the chest bled for some time and THEN shot in the head.
Now I am no doctor so this may all be just how Hollywood would portray it but maybe some medical folks could address that?

originally posted by: Dragoon01
Paddock did not shoot himself with a rifle, the casings in blood are not from the fatal shots.
Or are they? If he didn't shoot himself they very well could be from the gun that killed him.

Based on the unedited photo I've seen, I would have a hard time believing he shot himself with a rifle. I'm admittedly no expert, but I've seen numerous videos of people shot in the head with handguns, and the picture of Paddock looks fairly consistent with what I've seen before. Of course many factors weigh into it.

originally posted by: openyourmind1262
a reply to: LSU0408

Is the open end of that cartridge laying flat to the floor or is it conical shaped and raised up a bit at the bullet end? It's a .223 round or a .308 round...up off the floor a bit. Look again.

It's hard to tell from the picture because it's not extremely clear. I noticed the bullet shells and then my co-worker noticed it and he said it looks like the shells fell after the blood. My co-worker was a homicide detective for 20 years. I'm not doubting you by any means at all, but with the grainy pic, I can see how either layout can be seen. Another poster showed a pic and quote that another homicide cop gave an opinion on and he said the same thing my co-worker said. It's a 50/50 toss up but if those shells fell after the blood spilled then you know what that means.

a reply to: Dragoon01

Your heart doesn't stop instantly when you shoot yourself in the head. Even once it stops, your circulatory system is still under pressure until enough of it has been released through bleeding. So yes you can get blood coming out of the mouth wound even after you're dead.

a reply to: roadgravel

Why would somebody who was shot not communicate that he was shot? That is ridiculous

originally posted by: matafuchs

But people do that ALL the time and leave a door open. You do not want to bring your key so you use the latch to keep it open. I have even been drunk and forgot it and not ONCE did I have the hotel contact me.

So, if they had an indication, then maybe someone was watching and after a certain amount of time the Security Guard was dispatched? Still...and open door in a hotel I have never heard causing a security check.

Neither have I. I stayed in Hiltons and Hamptons for 2 years straight from TN to KS to LA to AL and left my door lock in the closed position (after opening the door to keep it cracked) and it never sent an alarm. I just figured that things might be different with high rollers on the higher floors of extravagant hotels like Mandalay Bay.

They are either the worst police department ever or they are lying to us on purpose.

You know they interviewed the security guard the night it happen and had the info then. So why all the wrong stories and confusion? Also why the confusion on when Paddock checked into the hotel. They have held firm with 9-28 up until yesterday when they were pressed on that being wrong. The receipt for room service that has been floating around says 9-27. But there is other proof he actually checked in on 9-25. Don't tell me it has taken a week for you to walk to the front desk and ask them when he checked in? I work the front desk at a hotel. Its a simple click to see EXACTLY when he checked in, down to the minute. I can check that info today or even a year from know. Easy peasy, not complicated.

200 rounds at close distance and only a non-fatal leg wound? Not such good 'hit' stats. Despite triangulation calculations, and givven lateral angulation in addition to height-distance, the festival shooting 'success' of 500+ hits must have required... hmmm...something like (500 hits / Hit Hallway Success History/shot = 500 x 200 shots)= 10,000 shots !?!?!#!

OK at best. with an 'amateur' shooting down and to the left..let's give the shooter credit for Hallway practice, then a best shooting success might minimally require 5000-6000 shots?

Most of those shots would have wound up spread out all over Vegas!

But give the shooter more credit as he got better during the shooting (not likely with amateurfatigue just holding the weapon and absorbing the recoil)...say 3000 shots. 3000 SHOTS MAKE A LOT OF CASINGS!!!! Where are they?

a reply to: ZenTam


Great observation and points! Thanks for sharing your hotel industry knowledge.

a reply to: havanaja


Regarding the hallway, it took at least 20 seconds for him to fire 200 rounds. Even in gangster movies, they only "spray" a door or wall for a few seconds. 20 seconds is a LONG TIME.

originally posted by: norhoc
a reply to: roadgravel

Why would somebody who was shot not communicate that he was shot? That is ridiculous

Literally every last detail about the security guard doesn't make sense. It doesn't make any sense that he would be checking Paddock's room. It doesn't make any sense that Paddock would shoot at him thru the door 200 times. It doesn't make any sense that Paddock would shoot 200 bullets at him and then not bother to finish him off. It doesn't make any sense that Campos wouldn't report being shot (we can assume this because the cops seemingly did not know which floor to go to at first). It doesn't make any sense that this would be initially portrayed as having occurred after the massacre instead of before it.

He must be Paddock's accomplice (either as a shooter, or more likely as a government agent in a sting gone wrong) and the FBI is desperately trying to avoid admitting this. By now it's painfully obvious that they're making up the story in an ad-hoc manner, like a child trying to invent a story to get out of trouble.

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: Dragoon01

Your heart doesn't stop instantly when you shoot yourself in the head. Even once it stops, your circulatory system is still under pressure until enough of it has been released through bleeding. So yes you can get blood coming out of the mouth wound even after you're dead.

Okay, so its possible that he was still ticking when he hit the floor.
I am still not understanding that pool of blood. We have obviously dried blood soaked into the carpet. His shirt. On his face. Drops over to the gun and also on the gun. Then we have this large gush of obvious new blood that has rushed out from somewhere and is so thick and gelled. It looks like a later wound or I guess it could be from someone pushing on his body and causing it to rush out.
Just looks odd to me.

originally posted by: havanaja
200 rounds at close distance and only a non-fatal leg wound? Not such good 'hit' stats. Despite triangulation calculations, and givven lateral angulation in addition to height-distance, the festival shooting 'success' of 500+ hits must have required... hmmm...something like (500 hits / Hit Hallway Success History/shot = 500 x 200 shots)= 10,000 shots !?!?!#!

OK at best. with an 'amateur' shooting down and to the left..let's give the shooter credit for Hallway practice, then a best shooting success might minimally require 5000-6000 shots?

This is completely inaccurate. Shooting at one person through a door, even if you're watching them on a camera is much different than shooting at a packed crowd that you can actually see and don't need any degree of accuracy to hit. There's also such a thing as suppressive fire. Not all of those rounds may have been trying to hit the guy, but just make sure he couldn't come through the door. Please don't spread these numbers you've "calculated", they're completely false.

originally posted by: bknapple32
a reply to: matafuchs

The open door alarm goes off if no one is registered to the room. Its a safegaurd for people who try and sneak in to a room after the maid.

Either way only complicates the story further. His door was open? I thought he was registered. His door was open? I thought he shot through the door.


Another door down the hallway was open? convenient. why would the shooter mess with the security guard if hes checking out another room.

None of it adds up

Exactly. Why would he crack another door to draw attention to where he's gonna be?

What if it all came out and it turns out that Stephen Paddock, the country's biggest mass murder, actually walked into his room and found that someone else had gotten in and tried to stop them, being murdered himself in the meantime, and the security guard was one of the main people involved and was the one who shot and killed Paddock? What a twist that would be.

What if this was an assassination went wrong.. who knows who he actually worked for. Someone with that life style does seem to fit the portrait of a specialist.

The actual shooting in the festival might have been a distraction.

The high profile target might have been someone leaving the Gold Coast terminal that is literally right across from the Mandalay Bay. The target distance between the hotel and the terminal is only between 2000ft and 2700ft. The Gold Coast Terminal is famous for the Janet flights to Area 51. Maybe it was a last resort to deal with a leak.

The location is the most interesting fact for me.

imgur.com...