Why you can bleep off when you say I need to vaccinate my children...

I always feel like each to their own...
But problem with this is you can also put other humans at risk if your child becomes infected with a disease that's a real shocker..

I believe one should always mitigate risk, especially when it's a simple task to mitigate a very large risk - captain hindsight with his 2 sidekicks, 'would've' and 'should've' will be very difficult to live with if the worst does happen.

I also don't trust the medical industrial complex... but enough of a spotlight has been put on this subject that I believe if there were any 'cost-cutting' methods used or any other incorrect method of delivery used it has been phased out.

Don't know if you've ever seen Jim Jeffries on getting his kid vaccinated, it seems highly applicable, but youtube is letting us down..

And giving an infant multiple vaccines at the same time is not advisable

I was vaccinated and I feel fine

a reply to: Rezlooper

It's a good thing then that the President of America agrees with you.

a reply to: GreenGunther

I've never been Vaxxed and I feel fine too.

My kids are not vaccinated. Eat right and play outside. Never been sick in their lives other than common cold. Oh and they are smart! Daughter was able to skip a grade last year testing through! My son is a baseball stud so he stays where he is grade wise to remain competitive. Best part, vaxers think we are contagious monsters so they stay away. Lol its a great life!

a reply to: Rezlooper

Personally, I'm against any requirement for or giving of vaccines for less serious disease, especially those which mutate regularly (ie Influenza, Chicken Pox.)

I don't personally believe vaccines alone are the cause of the insane increase in autism, but it does seem to be the may be a trigger in conjunction with genetic predisposition and other nutritional/environmental factors.

Flu vaccine just seem insane to me.

a reply to: elementalgrove

Sorry for the late response I kinda gave up and started my own thread...

Look vaccines on the whole are safe, there are risks with everything in life and they do save millions of lives. I question the validity of vaccinating against none life threatening diseases, we need together sick sometimes its been happening to us for hundreds of thousands of years.

What I want to determine is what has changed to cause this epidemic, its not just increased diagnosis, and parents do see their children change after a vaccination, but its rare. Doctors rarely listen to parents, they are too busy to think half the time. If you are concerned about vaccines research which life threatening diseases are endemic in your country and vaccinate against them. But I am not a medical professional, I am a research scientist. I theorise and then do bad things to animals :/

a reply to: Xtrozero

That would depend on the guesstimated prognosis. If it was such that I would live for a few more months maybe a year but in misery no I would die and try to do it smilingly. If there was a good chance of a cure I probably would yes, but mostly for my kids.

a reply to: FredT

its not all about your kids FredT, its about everyones children and their right to choose for their children without being attacked. I understand you see a lot of preventable disease in your line of work but its not for you to say what another parent does. If your kids are vaccinated they are 97% protected. So don't sweat it.

originally posted by: Charlyboy
a reply to: FredT

2017 : many of these are Poly Valent.


Birth
Hepatitis B (hepB)a
2 months
Hepatitis B, diphtheria, tetanus, acellular pertussis (whooping cough), Haemophilus influenzae type b, inactivated poliomyelitis (polio) (hepB-DTPa-Hib-IPV)
Pneumococcal conjugate (13vPCV)
Rotavirus
4 months
Hepatitis B, diphtheria, tetanus, acellular pertussis (whooping cough), Haemophilus influenzae type b, inactivated poliomyelitis (polio) (hepB-DTPa-Hib-IPV)
Pneumococcal conjugate (13vPCV)
Rotavirus
6 months
Hepatitis B, diphtheria, tetanus, acellular pertussis (whooping cough), Haemophilus influenzae type b, inactivated poliomyelitis (polio) (hepB-DTPa-Hib-IPV)
Pneumococcal conjugate (13vPCV)
Rotavirus b
12 months
Haemophilus influenzae type b and meningococcal C (Hib-MenC)
Measles, mumps and rubella (MMR)
18 months
Diphtheria, tetanus, acellular pertussis (whooping cough)
Measles, mumps, rubella and varicella (chickenpox) (MMRV)
4 years
Diphtheria, tetanus, acellular pertussis (whooping cough) and inactivated poliomyelitis (polio) (DTPa-IPV)

that is insane and they are planning to add more in the future to me it's a huge red flag...I had measles as a child along with other childhood illnesses I was vaccinated. I was in bed for over two weeks with extreme temperatures I healed and then relapsed for another two weeks when all was said and done I had lost close to twenty pounds...so someone please tell me how vaccines are supposed to work?

The hypocrisy runs deep in many pro-vaxxers (not all mind you, but many). Especially the ones that point the fingers at those who choose to not vaccine and scream, "You're endangering the life of my child who cannot get vaccines."

Do you not see how ridiculous this sounds? Vaccine injuries are real. Anyone denying such is just willingly placing their hand in the sand. So therefore here's the translation from above:

"You should chance the safety of your child by vaccinating them in order for me to feel secure in knowing my child is safe by you risking the safety of yours."

I feel stupid typing it because it is stupid. And yet that's EXACTLY what pro-vaxxers who shake their proverbial fingers at anti-vaxxers and say, "You're endangering my child. Waa."

Get over yourselves.
Do real research.
Ask questions.
Demand answers.
Seek the truth.
Become free thinkers.

And just maybe, MAYBE... one day there might be what most anti-vaxxers are demanding:

A double blind randomized control study between a population of vaccinated and unvaccinated children in the "same area of the world."

In fact, many anti-vax parents would 'willingly' agree to their children being in the control group. But noooo... that's unethical even though those parents have already MADE THE DECISION TO NOT VACCINATE.

Has anyone forgotten...

We once thought cigarettes were healthy. We embraced them. Look what happened.

And we once demonized saturated fat in the diet and encouraged people to eat refined, low fat diets. And if you did eat fat, lord have mercy please make sure you use those highly unstable seed oils.

Where did that get us? Fat, dumb, sick and the highest level of cardiac problems in the history of western civilization.

We are just now understanding that was purported by false, wrong, incorrect data and many people DIED AS A RESULT. And continue to die.

Get your heads out of your butt and start reading between the lines.

Bleh.

Everyone i've ever talked to who didn't get their kids vaccinated have very healthy kids.

I don't have kids. If i did i probably wouldn't get them vaccinated either. It's scary to me how many more vaccinations kids get today then most of us got as children.

It is also scary that the a lot of the extra vaccines they don't sell are considered toxic waste and have to be disposed of properly. www.idph.state.il.us...


I don't know, call me insane, trust your all knowing "scientists" but I don't think pumping mercury and disease's into a baby is the best way to avoid disease.

And to underestimate how much science is influenced by money is a very big mistake in my opinion.

originally posted by: Charlyboy
a reply to: Xtrozero

That would depend on the guesstimated prognosis. If it was such that I would live for a few more months maybe a year but in misery no I would die and try to do it smilingly. If there was a good chance of a cure I probably would yes, but mostly for my kids.

Most cancers are highly curable today...

a reply to: Agartha

originally posted by: Agartha

originally posted by: Charliezin82
Fact - Almost all vaccinated diseases were on a tremendous decline prior to the vaccine.

Nobody is denying that better socioeconomic conditions helped people get healthier and live better, but that's not true. If it was true then how do you explain this:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Fact - There is no study showing a control group of non-vaccinated children, and whenever someone tries it always shows a tremendous benefit to the un-vaccinated children before quickly being shut down.

Please provide evidence for your last statement, studies that showed 'tremendous' benefits for unvaccinated children that were shut down.

Fact - Vaccine makers are protected by our government and cannot be sued even with cause.

Replied to this here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Fact - Vaccine courts have awarded hundreds of millions of dollars to families damaged by vaccines yet these actual proven cases of damages cannot happen in a true court so are always dismissed from public discussion.

Yes, since 1986 3.7 billion dollars have been awarded (31 years). Between 2006 and 2015 2.8 billion doses of vaccines were given and 2945 people were compensated: that's 1 person compensated for every 1 million doses given, which is exactly what physicians say, serious adverse reactions are extremely rare. - LINK -

Fact - there is a clear conflict of interest with certain members on the board of the CDC that determines the vaccine schedule also holding patents for the vaccines they are mandating the public to purchase. They are personally earning billions by forcing the public to purchase their product. This has been investigated by congress, but no one ever talks about it.

Citation please.

1- Not sure what you're linking to - it's an earlier page in this same thread and I didn't see something obvious to my statement.

2 - info.cmsri.org...

sciencebasedmedicine.org... sort/

This second link does a throughly good job bashing the studies and was just the first I found talking about the reasons the studies were dismissed. There is a clear bias, no doubt, but this is only because the vaccine industry refuse to do these studies with the many people that refuse vaccines regardless of any studies. There is no good reason to not do this study except they are afraid of the results.

3 - I understand the proposed reason protecting vaccine makers, but it is still unacceptable to me that this is zero accountability.

4 - There were 188 cases of Measles in the US last year, out of a population of 324,118,787 - roughly 1:1.7 Million Odds of getting sick - of which over 90% fully recover worldwide (there was 1 death due Measles in the last ten years in the US) Odds of being injured by the vaccine according to your own logic is nearly twice as likely than catching the disease. Dying from the vaccine is much more likely than dying from the disease. Obviously the debate could be made here whether or not the vaccine itself or the hygiene, nutrition and availability of medical services when needed are the cause for the improved US statistics.

5 - www.fourteenstudies.org... - no question on this one and the biggest red flag of them all to me. Shockingly this is almost never discussed even by those opposed to vaccines.

originally posted by: Charlyboy
a reply to: FredT

Your arguments are 2 dimensional. You ignore the fact that vaccines are responsible for a number of deaths each year and are also responsible for hospitalisations from seizures, encephalopathy and auto-immune disorders.

Vaccines prevent disease but ANYTHING that may harm or damage a child in anyway should be undertaken voluntarily by the parents not forced on them. I have a child who has severe epilepsy and cannot be vaccinated. Do I demand that parents vaccinate their children to keep mine safe?? No, because I know there is a small risk of injury and I would never want to push that on a family.

You talk about the threat of disease growing... Do you know why that is? Have you even thought about why new diseases are emerging? There is something called density dependence. All the vaccines in the world won't keep you safe.

I get incredibly tired of the ignorant and self righteous discussions on vaccines. There is little critical thinking and even less science involved.

If people don't want to vaccinate that is their choice. If the government want to reduce health costs they should ban fast food, alcohol and stupidity.

Show the incidence of vaccine mortality and severe adverse events please.
That would be a good start.

a reply to: Charliezin82

This is why vaccinated versus unvaccinated studies aren't done any more and why only anti-health idiots want them.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

"Vaccinated versus unvaccinated children: how they fare in first five years of life.

Epoke J1, Eko F, Mboto CI.
Author information
Abstract
Twenty five children who had undergone their full course of childhood immunization schedule were compared with 25 children who did not have any vaccinations for a period of five years. Parameters for comparison were measles, pertussis, poliomyelitis, tetanus and tuberculosis. Out of the 25 vaccinated children, only one child had mild measles at 2 1/2 years while 4 had suspected whooping cough at different points of the study period but not clinically diagnosed as pertussis. Among the unvaccinated group, 2 died of measles before the age of 3 years while 11 others went down with measles during an outbreak in 1986. An unvaccinated child also died of tetanus within the study period. In this paper we advocate the total integration of every community in the ongoing Expanded Programme for Immunization in Nigeria."

I think it's important to understand that in order to actually conduct a placebo-controlled double-blind trial, children would have to be actively exposed to the pathogens the vaccine protects against.
If you're happy with actively exposing your child to these pathogens then that tells me that you do not have the children's best interest at heart and probably shouldn't have kids at all.

originally posted by: Rezlooper
I found this very interesting blog post this morning from an anti-vaxxer. This pretty much sums up my own thoughts on vaccines.... You can "bleep" off when you tell me to vaccinate my kids. I have four kids, un-vaccinated and healthy. We've had one health scare with one of our children in 7 years outside of the common cold, and he quickly recovered.

Why you can bleep off when you say I need to vaccinate my children

Here's how the author starts out before posting an excerpt from another article;

Below are not my words, they are words of a friend, I have been given permission to use them. I am not going to be bullied any longer. I am not going to put up with "well, my child is fully vaccinated and fine." Because I am not fine and I refuse to put my children at risk because you're child is fine. What you need to know is my children are more than fine, they are healthy with no autoimmune disease, no celiac disease, no food allergies, no eczema, no learning disabilities. I am not willing to risk their health or well being because you think I should to "protect" your child. I don't tell anyone to not vaccinate, I simply tell them to read an insert, and educate yourself about vaccines. If vaccines are so great they wouldn't need to be made mandatory. If there weren't hundreds of thousands vaccine injured people out there we wouldn't be fighting for the right to choose.....

The article goes on to reference a lot of articles stating how vaccines are unsafe and how they didn't save us from disease, but indoor plumbing and clean water did. He claims there are no real long-term studies done on the safety of giving multiple vaccines at once.

And here they talk about the studies;

Vaccines are not scientific, because there has never been - I repeat, NEVER - been a published study that used an unvaccinated controlled/placebo group, to demonstrate the long-term efficacy, and long-term safety of any vaccine used in the U.S. Not one controlled study in any scientific journal evaluating the long-term benefits and risks vs. dangers of vaccination vs. unvaccinated (Dr. Hugh Fudenberg, M.D. world-leading in Immunogenetics, speech at the NVIC International Vaccine Conference, Arlington Virginia, Sept. 1997.

Also, there has been no long-term study done on the safety of multiple vaccines given at the same time, or the carcinogenic and reproductive complications that may occur. Thus, no doctor or other health professional can honestly tell you your baby will be safe and there is no future cancer risk.

He claims that most studies show that non-vaccinated people are more healthy than vaccinated people. In the article he goes on to reference some of those studies.

And then this in the article, which points out how vaccines are celebrated as saving our society and yet, all these diseases were already on a downward trend prior to the vaccines being introduced.

Our society celebrates the historical conquests of vaccines over disease. However, the data shows this celebration may not be deserved. National Morbidity Reports, from the U.S. Public Health Reports, show the rise and fall of deaths related to disease epidemics. In most cases, the death rate was decreasing significantly before vaccines were even introduced.

These reports, according to figures published in International Mortality Statistics, show that from 1915-1958 (five years before the creation of the measles vaccine) the measles health rate in the U.S. and U.K. had already declined by 98%, and that between 1900 and 1965, measles deaths had already decreased by 99% when the measles vaccine was introduced in 1968. From 1900 to 1935, whooping cough deaths had already decreased by 82% before the vaccine was introduced in the 1940s.

And this...

This natural downward trend is also shown in the Metropolitan Life Insurance Company's actuarial tables (that have no financial bias), showing the death rate among children from diphtheria, measles, and whooping cough had already decreased 95% from 1911 to 1945 from actual "natural herd immunity" at work - before the mass immunization programs started in the United States. This decrease was mainly due to less crowding and improved hygiene.

At the end of the blog, he links to some other pages where there are ingredients lists to vaccines, some info about the MMR, personal stories of the vaccine injured, the myths of tetanus and about how measles wasn't scary until it became a money maker.

Here is how he finished his blog and pretty much my thoughts exactly;

So if you feel the need to tell me my children are putting your children at risk for a disease they don't have you can # off. My children will not receive toxic chemicals so you can feel like your child is protected. My children are protected, their immune systems are strong.

I'm putting on my boxing gloves and getting ready for the onslaught of attacks from the pro-vaxxers! Bring it on!

edit on Thu Jun 22 2017 by DontTreadOnMe because: trimmed overly long quoting IMPORTANT: Using Content From Other Websites on ATS

I wonder if yourself and other anti-vax idiots would tell your anesthesiologists to **** off when they inject you with chemicals which have had no long term studies on safety or carcinogenicity.
Seriously you should definitely refuse them, they're full of chemikillz man.

a reply to: HorizonFall

This is nothing to do with big pharma, and everything to do with science deniers thinking their ill educated, poorly thoughtout, logic free BS, outweighs science, done largely by people who want to heal and protect people, for decades upon decades, people who actually know the science involved in vaccination.

Frankly, your trying to politicise the issue is what is at fault here.

I hate big businesses. I am a socialist at heart, I believe that people who take work in the medical field should do it ONLY because they care about human life, not because they care about getting the latest Mercedes on an upgrade package, or decking out their apartments in fine art.

However, what I also believe, is that scientific evidence trumps lies and fiddled numbers all damned day. It is also why I consider those who are not vaccinating their children, to be the most irresponsible, foolish, and selfish individuals you can possibly hope to come across, outside a meeting of the G7 group. The behaviour of these people, these deluded individuals, has already caused jumps in infection rates. Measles, a disease which had been reduced to a near statistical irrelevance, has skyrocketed amongst the Somali community in Minnesota for example, where, until 2008 vaccination rates were at 92% among that community, down to less than 45%. What changed? Some moron made the Somali community a BS sandwich, and all of a sudden, the community starts shunning the vaccine. What happens? Outbreak, affecting sixty three families.

This sort of BS happens all over the globe, and there are some, less scientifically driven nations, nations in which science is only barely understood by a small percentage of the population, where you MIGHT be forgiven for the level of poorly directed skepticism that these vaccines receive. But for these things to be happening in ANY developed nation, with proper access to research data, to statistical evidence, and to the facts surrounding current vaccine strategy and content, that anyone of a reasoning mind and an informed position, could turn around and shun these vaccines!

For example, its worth pointing out that people have a problem with Thiomersal, because it is an organomercury compound. Fair enough... did you know that the vaccines people routinely bitch about most excessively, no longer contain that product, or at the very least have non-Thiomersal versions available? Because let me tell you, the vast majority of people who complain about vaccination love to throw that up, like it means something, despite the fact that it is not nearly as common as it was, as an ingredient in vaccination. Now, I can understand someone being thick enough not to understand that the product as it was showed no statistical sign of being responsible for autism, but I cannot understand how it can be that someone is dense enough to believe that a product which does not contain the main component that people were concerned about, is still dangerous because VACCINES OH NOES, WHATEVER WILL WE DOOOOO!?

Its rubbish. Its absolute nonsense. You drive with a safety belt on. You walk with your shoelaces tied, not untied. You drink milk that is in date, not out of date and part way to cheese town. You get your damned children vaccinated, because the alternative is pretty simple. You put them at massive risk of contracting diseases that were considered dead or dying out just a few decades ago, such was the effectiveness of the vaccines, diseases by the way, which are deadly and serious as a bullet to the brain pan.

Those are the options. Life or death, health or sickness. You want life and health for your children, then you vaccinate them, because the alternative places your children, and others, at such massive risk that it ought to be considered child endangerment. Any child who is immunosuppresed for their own safety, coming into contact with children who have not been vaccinated, is at STAGGERING risk of contracting disease. Herd immunisation protects even those who cannot be vaccinated themselves because of their delicate immunological circumstances, from the ravages of preventable illnesses, which on their own can kill easily.

But no, all the progress we have made in wiping out Polio, controlling measles, mumps and rubella diseases, all the huge steps which prevent the transmission of and promote the control of easily spread, highly lethal diseases, can be undone by a few people who have allowed their ego and their weakness of intellect, to endanger the lives of those who otherwise would be totally safe, but for the frankly inexplicable certainty that an idiot can have, that they are right even when every single valid source and piece of research, tells them with out question, that they are talking from the opening between their buttocks.

a reply to: TrueBrit

If there was a cancer vaccine, would the anti vaxxer's not partake?

a reply to: CaptainRamsey

Thats a great question.

And the answer? Who bloody knows anymore? If you had said to me fifteen years ago, that there was a cure all for cancer, I would have said "Of course, everyone would be taking it!" These days, who bloody knows? People evidently want to die from curable diseases, so I imagine it is perfectly likely now, that they would be overjoyed at the opportunity to die from something absolutely awful, that they could have totally avoided.

originally posted by: Pardon?
a reply to: Charliezin82

This is why vaccinated versus unvaccinated studies aren't done any more and why only anti-health idiots want them.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

"Vaccinated versus unvaccinated children: how they fare in first five years of life.

Epoke J1, Eko F, Mboto CI.
Author information
Abstract
Twenty five children who had undergone their full course of childhood immunization schedule were compared with 25 children who did not have any vaccinations for a period of five years. Parameters for comparison were measles, pertussis, poliomyelitis, tetanus and tuberculosis. Out of the 25 vaccinated children, only one child had mild measles at 2 1/2 years while 4 had suspected whooping cough at different points of the study period but not clinically diagnosed as pertussis. Among the unvaccinated group, 2 died of measles before the age of 3 years while 11 others went down with measles during an outbreak in 1986. An unvaccinated child also died of tetanus within the study period. In this paper we advocate the total integration of every community in the ongoing Expanded Programme for Immunization in Nigeria."

I think it's important to understand that in order to actually conduct a placebo-controlled double-blind trial, children would have to be actively exposed to the pathogens the vaccine protects against.
If you're happy with actively exposing your child to these pathogens then that tells me that you do not have the children's best interest at heart and probably shouldn't have kids at all.

This response does not address the issue of side effects. Of course those without the vaccine would have a larger risk of getting the disease, no question, however it is also been proven through outbreaks where the disease was brought into the US from people who traveled overseas that those that were vaccinated contracted the disease as well, and this had zero to do with herd immunity - the disease was brought in by foreigners and directly infected someone who was vaccinated.

The argument I make and many make is if the side effects are worth the vaccination. Billions in damages have been paid, and as I stated above you are much more likely in the US to die from the Measles vaccine than from the disease itself.

The study we all want is a study regarding side effects, down to the level of allergies, SIDs, Autism, and others. There are plenty of families that don't vaccinate that would gladly participate in this study, so why not do it? The answer is they already know what will be shown and if it was scientifically verified large amounts of the population would begin refusing vaccines.

And yes the people determining what vaccines we must take are literally profiting in the millions to billions of dollars by doing so. Linked proof above.