Transgender Boy Wins in First Round of Girls Wrestling Tournament

originally posted by: Gryphon66
To talk about equality as if it means "exactly the same" is a common tactic for some.

Equality, when used in this case being discussed and in general (regarding sex, race, color, religion and national origin, etc.) regards the language in the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Especially when one considers that we have added categories like "disability" and "age' to the list, and in time will add "sexual orientation" and "gender identity" (which we have already effectively done through parallel legal action and precedent) ...

No reasonable person thinks we are all "exactly the same."

Equality before the laws? Endowed with equal rights? Yes.

Even though it takes us some time to catch up sometimes in some categories ...

Fundamental in American thought and history.

I've heard of research on things like IQ differences between groups being taboo topics in academia. There are also those on the left that try to say females are as capable as males physically.

We know that groups can differ vastly in intellect, in height, in speed, in strength. For example pygmies are substantially less tall than other groups usually. Like them there may exist groups that are substantially lacking in other areas.

originally posted by: Xenogears

I've heard of research on things like IQ differences between groups being taboo topics in academia.

There've been plenty of academic studies regarding IQ scores and demographics.

Here's a link to several.

originally posted by: Xenogears

There are also those on the left that try to say females are as capable as males physically.

Who on "the left" says this? Give us an example. Women are as capable as males in many ways, it depends on what you're talking about. Also, there's great variation in individuals.

originally posted by: Xenogears

We know that groups can differ vastly in intellect, in height, in speed, in strength. For example pygmies are substantially less tall than other groups usually. Like them there may exist groups that are substantially lacking in other areas.

Yes, again, we know that individuals can vary as you suggest. As one makes makes more and more encompassing statements about "groups" the statements become more and more questionable.

Well, as the term "pygmy" loosely means "average height is less than 150 cm" ... sure.

That's a bit of a tautology though ... "all short people are shorter than average" ... I'm not sure that conveys a lot useful information.

Interesting that you phrase a difference in height as "lacking" ... so, what's the "proper" height for humans then?

All due respect, you seem to be making very general statements. Since you directed what you said at me, can I ask you to be a bit more specific in what you're saying?

a reply to: Gryphon66

no it doesn't they just can't compete while taking drugs which are banned. i had a severe reaction to poison ivy and had to take a course of steroids for treatment i couldn't compete at track and field till it was out of my system.

originally posted by: proteus33
a reply to: Gryphon66

no it doesn't they just can't compete while taking drugs which are banned. i had a severe reaction to poison ivy and had to take a course of steroids for treatment i couldn't compete at track and field till it was out of my system.

Obviously the drugs Mack is taking are not banned.

a reply to: Aazadan

So this girl thinks she's a boy and ignores one of the golden rules of being a boy, that being don't beat up on girls.

This embarrassment should have not wrestled. Or did I miss the part where the law said he's required to wrestle?

Gotta love folks who have to fluff up their own egos by insulting teenaged kids on a message board.

Good argument. He's 17, can legally enlist and go drop bombs on foreign citizens and/or pursue hormonal steroid treatment to become as close to a boy as possible, can beat up on every girl he faced to win the championship, is old enough that he'd be tried as an adult in many court systems, but here we have another lefty trying to shirk accountability.

Some here seem to think that official girls' high-school wrestling in the state of Texas is "beating up on girls."

Actually, no one thinks that, or rather, I can' believe anyone with enough intellect to sign up for ATS thinks that.

It's just another example of the ridiculous lengths that some will go to in the attempt to deny others their rights.

And of course, anyone who seems to disagree with this authoritarian BS is a "lefty."

Is it a matter of a sense of fairness though, as some have here argued? If it were, it seems, that instead of insulting a kid you don't even know, repeating the same tired beliefs that are not based in medical science or established law, you'd be saying "Hey, why don't we get Texas to change their laws so that Mack can wrestle boys as he should be doing."

The fact that nothing like that is being said suggests that there's no real interest in fairness, only the dogged promotion of an agenda.

Variant gender identities are a fact. You don't have to "believe" in it, just like you don't have to "believe" in evolution, global warming, or rationality.

The facts don't change based on belief.

originally posted by: Throes

So let's make it fair for the 1% and unfair for the 99%. Remember as kids when you were told life isn't fair sometimes. I remember. Apparently most of society doesn't.

We are talking 2017 where everyone is protesting for that 1%, I guess the 99% need to change...

originally posted by: Logarock

The thing is there is alteration of natural gender conditions......which is really not what this is even about anyway. You cant just that you are a man just because you take some shots ect. We have lost our minds if we don't call this bulls**t out. Some poster argue for it quite well only because they have had to and have thus augmented their common sense with a rich tapestry of bull stuff. Its about challenging things that are natural with the freek show.

The town folk will come at you with huge label bts and touches with and they will use as if they are a quick draw professional... This is the way we live now....

originally posted by: RedDragon
He should absolutely be allowed to compete. But he should not be allowed to take anabolic steroids and compete.

No one's being discriminated against because no one should be allowed to take anabolic steroids and compete in sports.

So I guess those with Asthma should be told to sit on the sidelines too unless they stop taking their meds...

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: AtomicKangaroo
She is still a she, just a mutilated she now with pretend parts. All the testosterone injections in the world aint going to change that.

Amazing that if I chose to cut off my arms and legs tomorrow because I felt like I was an amputee trapped in a limbed persons body people would say I was insane, mentally ill.
But if I choose to castrate myself, I'll be applauded and praised.

Intelligent species? Yeah believing that less and less these days.

On the main topic though, wouldn't this be the hormone equivalent a sports person taking steroids? She like Pinnochio wants to be a real boy, so why is she still wrestling girls? Why are those in charge allowing it?

Honestly seems people want to be treated a certain way or equal only when it suits them, when it gives them an advantage over others.

Oh well tomorrow I am going to identify as Woman, it's ladies night at the local bar and I want cheap drinks.

You are mistaken. Mack hasn't had any surgeries. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good ol' transphobic rant though.

I do understand that you're just expressing your opinion, which you certainly have a right to do.

My opinion is, in this case, what you've said is based on a ridiculous level of errors, lies and ignorance and is only intended to be insulting, divisive and hurtful.

Okay yes I know they have not had any surgeries. But they have had hormone treatment which would be technically "mutilating" themselves.
And I would be pretty sure the end game is to have surgeries, is that not the point of being trans? To physically alter ones self to give the illusion of gender?

And no I am not transphobic, phobia is a fear, I have no fear of other people unless they are wishing to be viiolent towards me, someone having a different opinion to you does not mean they are this phobic or that phobic. It's honestly the lamest comeback argument a person can make I feel. "Oh you disagree with me? HOMOPHOBE!!!"

Just because you feel something does not make it true. I am not being divisive, hateful or whatever. If I met this kid in person I would treat them no different than I would the next person just as I don't treat people with down syndrome or schizophrenia any differently to any one else. (While acknowledging their issues at the same time of course.)

How I treat people is based on how they behave as a human being.

What I am though is a realist. I call a spade a spade. I see mental illness I call it mental illness. I do not twist reality to suit me, my beliefs, my agenda or because it makes me feel a certain way.
"Oh that guy hears voices? He must not be schizophrenic, he must be a prophet!"

I stand by my claims, a girl or boy who has a 'sex change' is still a girl or boy. Just one that has their mental illness and genital mutilation labelled as normal by equally mentally ill people.

Honestly where do we draw the line? When do we stop ignoring reality and say "okay now #'s going to far?"

Come back and see me when someone with a sex change has fully functioning sexual organs and their bodies chromosomes are completely rewritten and they are able to produce the necessary hormones on their own.

Honestly I do find it ridiculous anyone can say they feel like this or that when they have never physically been this or that.
This girl know nothing about what it is like to be a male, any more than I know what it is like to have a period, cramps, naturally produced estrogen or what it is like to be pregnant or to have a clitoris.
Takes more than peeing standing up to know what it feels like to be a man, as much as peeing sitting down makes someone know what it feels like to be a woman.

It is mental illness. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: RedDragon
He should absolutely be allowed to compete. But he should not be allowed to take anabolic steroids and compete.

No one's being discriminated against because no one should be allowed to take anabolic steroids and compete in sports.

So I guess those with Asthma should be told to sit on the sidelines too unless they stop taking their meds...

No those with Asthma should just accept they were born this way and we should all encourage them to stop taking their meds because we should accept that their condition is natural.

Sorry but a huge difference between being medically ill and getting treated to stay alive and being mentally ill and not being treated, instead embracing the mental illness as normal.

a reply to: AtomicKangaroo

You didn't seem to know that Mack hadn't had surgeries ... and now you want to squint at hormone replacement and call that mutilation?

I'm not going to waste a lot of time on that level of fact-denial.

I haven't called you a transphobe or a homophobe so all you're doing there is pitching red herring.

The medical, psychiatric, psychological and public health professional associations have stated that trans folks have a variant gender identity not a mental illness. Various legal precedents around the country note this fact as well.

You are only focusing on your belief that being trans is a mental illness. It isn't. Anything you say subject to that after the contrary has been proven time and time again ... is frankly not worth responding to.

originally posted by: MysticPearl
My theory is most transgendered are actually gay, but society has them so confused with this utter crap they think they should massacre their bodies with sex operations and steroids.

So when a few years ago, you had a girl who was more masculine and sexually attracted to other women, otherwise known as a lesbian, they're now being told those thoughts mean you're actually a guy trapped in a girl's body, so go sew on a penis. It's the height of stupidity.

Same with gay men, notoriously feminine and flamboyant, attracted to other men, are now being told they're actually girls trapped in a man's body, so shop off your pecker.

This doesn't account for all but I generally find it, ironically, homophobic.

This makes sense. It's interesting because isn't it Islamic countries where you can't be gay, and would have to transition to the other gender if you are? And the same people pushing for globalism are driving this issue in the west. Hmm...

a reply to: seasonal

I think in terms of sports like conduct and fairness he should wait until the transition has been made therefore there is no question as to whether testosterone is providing any unfair advantage

of course taking testosterone is going to cause the body to develop more muscle tissue isnt it ?
if the ultimate goal is to be male

i think if you are trans and love sport , then just wait until you have transitioned then there is no question that you have an unfair advantage due to drugs or increased muscle mass due to transitioning

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: seasonal

I think in terms of sports like conduct and fairness he should wait until the transition has been made therefore there is no question as to whether testosterone is providing any unfair advantage

of course taking testosterone is going to cause the body to develop more muscle tissue isnt it ?
if the ultimate goal is to be male

i think if you are trans and love sport , then just wait until you have transitioned then there is no question that you have an unfair advantage due to drugs or increased muscle mass due to transitioning

Asking a child to wait to perform sports is not fair, not a solution.

originally posted by: MoreInterior

originally posted by: MysticPearl
My theory is most transgendered are actually gay, but society has them so confused with this utter crap they think they should massacre their bodies with sex operations and steroids.

So when a few years ago, you had a girl who was more masculine and sexually attracted to other women, otherwise known as a lesbian, they're now being told those thoughts mean you're actually a guy trapped in a girl's body, so go sew on a penis. It's the height of stupidity.

Same with gay men, notoriously feminine and flamboyant, attracted to other men, are now being told they're actually girls trapped in a man's body, so shop off your pecker.

This doesn't account for all but I generally find it, ironically, homophobic.

This makes sense. It's interesting because isn't it Islamic countries where you can't be gay, and would have to transition to the other gender if you are? And the same people pushing for globalism are driving this issue in the west. Hmm...

This is not the case. If a trans male prefers females...he is not gay and vice versa. Bc he truly identifies as a male...he does not consider himself gay when he dates females. Confusing I know.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Throes

So let's make it fair for the 1% and unfair for the 99%. Remember as kids when you were told life isn't fair sometimes. I remember. Apparently most of society doesn't.

We are talking 2017 where everyone is protesting for that 1%, I guess the 99% need to change...

Your assumption that everyone is protesting is incorrect.

Taking testosterone would fall under steroids, wouldn't it? How did she/he not get disqualified wrestling as a girl?