Transgender Boy Wins in First Round of Girls Wrestling Tournament

originally posted by: babybunnies
She should be stronger and faster than the girls through having natural testosterone levels and different ability to grow muscle.

To allow a transgender student to compete against girls is unfair to all the other girls playing sports, as it's an unfair advantage.

You're absolutely right. Mack wants to compete against other boys. The laws in Texas will not allow that though because of the sex on his birth certificate.

originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: babybunnies
She should be stronger and faster than the girls through having natural testosterone levels and different ability to grow muscle.

To allow a transgender student to compete against girls is unfair to all the other girls playing sports, as it's an unfair advantage.

I'd say let's make a transgender division but we would end up with 60+ ...

Yeah, we decided a while back that "separate but equal" doesn't cut it, Constitutionally.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: babybunnies
She should be stronger and faster than the girls through having natural testosterone levels and different ability to grow muscle.

To allow a transgender student to compete against girls is unfair to all the other girls playing sports, as it's an unfair advantage.

You're absolutely right. Mack wants to compete against other boys. The laws in Texas will not allow that though because of the sex on his birth certificate.

And you were harping about legalities?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: babybunnies
She should be stronger and faster than the girls through having natural testosterone levels and different ability to grow muscle.

To allow a transgender student to compete against girls is unfair to all the other girls playing sports, as it's an unfair advantage.

I'd say let's make a transgender division but we would end up with 60+ ...

Yeah, we decided a while back that "separate but equal" doesn't cut it, Constitutionally.

Ok this is gender based wrestling not a constitutional issue really.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: RedDragon

The correct viewpoint is for anyone taking anabolic steroids to not be allowed to compete against men or women. Like I said in my above post, MMA just learned this lesson the hard way.

Isn't that discriminatory that you want to limit people with a medical condition from what activities they would like to be a part of?

So let's make it fair for the 1% and unfair for the 99%. Remember as kids when you were told life isn't fair sometimes. I remember. Apparently most of society doesn't.

I agree; let's change this silly Texas law so that Mack can compete against other boys.

It's a travesty that he has to wrestle girls because of a backwards law.

It's a travesty it still won't be fair due to the advantage of the therapy.

Are you familiar with Mack's testosterone levels? What about his upper body strength, weight, bone density, muscular development, etc. Any information on any of that? No?

Then you don't know enough about the details of his therapy to make that analysis in terms of his competing with other boys.

The silly situation of him having to wrestle girls because of backward Texas laws and attitudes?

Absolutely ridiculous.

Shouldn't be wrestling at all at this point.

In your opinion.

Tell us why.

Or is your answer also "Because I say so."

Because it doesn't make sense at all. There aren't rules or divisions that take this situation into account (apparently).

If it doesn't make sense to you ... do some research. Find out at least a little bit about what it means to be trans, what the distinction between sex, gender, sexual orientation and gender identity is. Read what the medical professions have to say about the subject. Look at case law that says that trans folks should have the same rights as everyone else.

Then, having armed yourself with something besides blind belief, come back into any of these threads on the issue and ask questions rather than making pronouncements.

No, you don't get to talk down to me. It doesn't make sense. This situation isn't accounted for at all currently. Obviously what's going on today shouldn't be allowed. You agree with that. I don't think the answer is as simple as let them wrestle with the gender they identify with, either.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: babybunnies
She should be stronger and faster than the girls through having natural testosterone levels and different ability to grow muscle.

To allow a transgender student to compete against girls is unfair to all the other girls playing sports, as it's an unfair advantage.

You're absolutely right. Mack wants to compete against other boys. The laws in Texas will not allow that though because of the sex on his birth certificate.

And you were harping about legalities?

Texas isn't the only place with laws or that sets legal precedent.

Next?

originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: RedDragon

The correct viewpoint is for anyone taking anabolic steroids to not be allowed to compete against men or women. Like I said in my above post, MMA just learned this lesson the hard way.

Isn't that discriminatory that you want to limit people with a medical condition from what activities they would like to be a part of?

So let's make it fair for the 1% and unfair for the 99%. Remember as kids when you were told life isn't fair sometimes. I remember. Apparently most of society doesn't.

I agree; let's change this silly Texas law so that Mack can compete against other boys.

It's a travesty that he has to wrestle girls because of a backwards law.

It's a travesty it still won't be fair due to the advantage of the therapy.

Are you familiar with Mack's testosterone levels? What about his upper body strength, weight, bone density, muscular development, etc. Any information on any of that? No?

Then you don't know enough about the details of his therapy to make that analysis in terms of his competing with other boys.

The silly situation of him having to wrestle girls because of backward Texas laws and attitudes?

Absolutely ridiculous.

Shouldn't be wrestling at all at this point.

In your opinion.

Tell us why.

Or is your answer also "Because I say so."

Because it doesn't make sense at all. There aren't rules or divisions that take this situation into account (apparently).

If it doesn't make sense to you ... do some research. Find out at least a little bit about what it means to be trans, what the distinction between sex, gender, sexual orientation and gender identity is. Read what the medical professions have to say about the subject. Look at case law that says that trans folks should have the same rights as everyone else.

Then, having armed yourself with something besides blind belief, come back into any of these threads on the issue and ask questions rather than making pronouncements.

No, you don't get to talk down to me. It doesn't make sense. This situation isn't accounted for at all currently. Obviously what's going on today shouldn't be allowed. You agree with that. I don't think the answer is as simple as let them wrestle with the gender they identify with, either.

Talk down to you? I disagree with you, and I've been very clear on why. I've not said one negative thing about you personally, or given you any estimate of what I think of you. So no, sorry, I haven't "talked down to you.

I have evidence for my opinions and you, apparently, have none, or none that you will share. Further, quite obviously, you have no desire to learn anything new about the situation. I don't think there's any benefit in continuing the discussion.

Best.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: babybunnies
She should be stronger and faster than the girls through having natural testosterone levels and different ability to grow muscle.

To allow a transgender student to compete against girls is unfair to all the other girls playing sports, as it's an unfair advantage.

I'd say let's make a transgender division but we would end up with 60+ ...

Yeah, we decided a while back that "separate but equal" doesn't cut it, Constitutionally.

Ok this is gender based wrestling not a constitutional issue really.

Due process and equality before the laws are Constitutional issues though.

If wrestling is not such a big deal to you ... why are you apparently so worked up about it?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: RedDragon

The correct viewpoint is for anyone taking anabolic steroids to not be allowed to compete against men or women. Like I said in my above post, MMA just learned this lesson the hard way.

Isn't that discriminatory that you want to limit people with a medical condition from what activities they would like to be a part of?

So let's make it fair for the 1% and unfair for the 99%. Remember as kids when you were told life isn't fair sometimes. I remember. Apparently most of society doesn't.

I agree; let's change this silly Texas law so that Mack can compete against other boys.

It's a travesty that he has to wrestle girls because of a backwards law.

It's a travesty it still won't be fair due to the advantage of the therapy.

Are you familiar with Mack's testosterone levels? What about his upper body strength, weight, bone density, muscular development, etc. Any information on any of that? No?

Then you don't know enough about the details of his therapy to make that analysis in terms of his competing with other boys.

The silly situation of him having to wrestle girls because of backward Texas laws and attitudes?

Absolutely ridiculous.

Shouldn't be wrestling at all at this point.

In your opinion.

Tell us why.

Or is your answer also "Because I say so."

Because it doesn't make sense at all. There aren't rules or divisions that take this situation into account (apparently).

If it doesn't make sense to you ... do some research. Find out at least a little bit about what it means to be trans, what the distinction between sex, gender, sexual orientation and gender identity is. Read what the medical professions have to say about the subject. Look at case law that says that trans folks should have the same rights as everyone else.

Then, having armed yourself with something besides blind belief, come back into any of these threads on the issue and ask questions rather than making pronouncements.

No, you don't get to talk down to me. It doesn't make sense. This situation isn't accounted for at all currently. Obviously what's going on today shouldn't be allowed. You agree with that. I don't think the answer is as simple as let them wrestle with the gender they identify with, either.

Talk down to you? I disagree with you, and I've been very clear on why. I've not said one negative thing about you personally, or given you any estimate of what I think of you. So no, sorry, I haven't "talked down to you.

I have evidence for my opinions and you, apparently, have none, or none that you will share. Further, quite obviously, you have no desire to learn anything new about the situation. I don't think there's any benefit in continuing the discussion.

Best.

Likewise.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: babybunnies
She should be stronger and faster than the girls through having natural testosterone levels and different ability to grow muscle.

To allow a transgender student to compete against girls is unfair to all the other girls playing sports, as it's an unfair advantage.

I'd say let's make a transgender division but we would end up with 60+ ...

Yeah, we decided a while back that "separate but equal" doesn't cut it, Constitutionally.

I didn't know gender was a race.

Transgender Boy Wins in First Round of Girls Wrestling Tournament

There are about nine kinds of WRONG about this.

Think I will pick misogynist.

Getting to essentially to beat up on girls.

So Mack should be wrestling boys but using the girls' bathroom? You Right Wingers should really just admit that your views on transgenders are based on prejudice.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
Let him or her or whatever wrestle the girls.
They can use any bathroom they wish so they can compete in any sport they wish.
When transgenders take enough scholarships from women I'm sure that will stir the pot.

Your comment made me laff.

If people want equality ... this is certainly the subject that will bring the impossibility of such a state to light. Competitive sports is all about defining dominance ... not equality. There's a winner and a loser. Gender has nothing really to do with it at all.

I wish this subject could be 'the one' that defines the issue of equality (and people's roles in trying to enforce it) forever. Equality is BS. It has always been BS.

originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: babybunnies
She should be stronger and faster than the girls through having natural testosterone levels and different ability to grow muscle.

To allow a transgender student to compete against girls is unfair to all the other girls playing sports, as it's an unfair advantage.

I'd say let's make a transgender division but we would end up with 60+ ...

Yeah, we decided a while back that "separate but equal" doesn't cut it, Constitutionally.

I didn't know gender was a race.

Perhaps that's because it isn't.

To talk about equality as if it means "exactly the same" is a common tactic for some.

Equality, when used in this case being discussed and in general (regarding sex, race, color, religion and national origin, etc.) regards the language in the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Especially when one considers that we have added categories like "disability" and "age' to the list, and in time will add "sexual orientation" and "gender identity" (which we have already effectively done through parallel legal action and precedent) ...

No reasonable person thinks we are all "exactly the same."

Equality before the laws? Endowed with equal rights? Yes.

Even though it takes us some time to catch up sometimes in some categories ...

Fundamental in American thought and history.

None of this crap is about equality.

This was one of the most unequal paths to a state championship in American history and the situation of one trumped the situations of all others.

Not allowing this confused teen to compete would have been a helluva lot more equal to everyone else. Instead, this clown decided his rights mattered more than everyone else's and decided beating up on girls was the proper outcome.

Mack winning the State Championship as a girl (when he is a transboy) points directly at the heart of the matter. (Keep in mind he WANTED to compete as a boy; Texas law restricted that and forced him (if he was going to compete) to compete as a girl.

Of course it's unfair. To the girls and to Mack.

Gender identity is not some whimsical, occasional, or temporary matter for most people. If anyone were to do even the TINIEST bit of research to find out what is involved in transitioning you would realize that.

Gender identity is one of the fundamental characteristics that makes up who are are as individuals and as human beings.

It is certainly as much a part of us as our religion, race, national origin, etc. We have long recognized those areas of person-hood and identity as worthy of equal protection under the law, because, just as we see here, there are some who will do ANYTHING to convince others that different sexes, races, national origins, religions, etc. make people different and undeserving of the equal protection that our Constitution promises every American.

In fact, if you watch, you see the same folks with the same problems with equality over and over and over with the same kinds of arguments.

After a while the prejudice (rather than simply a matter of a difference of opinion) becomes ... palpable.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: RedDragon

The correct viewpoint is for anyone taking anabolic steroids to not be allowed to compete against men or women. Like I said in my above post, MMA just learned this lesson the hard way.

Isn't that discriminatory that you want to limit people with a medical condition from what activities they would like to be a part of?

He should absolutely be allowed to compete. But he should not be allowed to take anabolic steroids and compete.

No one's being discriminated against because no one should be allowed to take anabolic steroids and compete in sports.

a reply to: Gryphon66

So if my religion condones amphetamines, I could win the State track championship?

I don't care what the kid does, until it effects other people.

originally posted by: MysticPearl
None of this crap is about equality.

This was one of the most unequal paths to a state championship in American history and the situation of one trumped the situations of all others.

Not allowing this confused teen to compete would have been a helluva lot more equal to everyone else. Instead, this clown decided his rights mattered more than everyone else's and decided beating up on girls was the proper outcome.

Umm... what? He wanted to compete as a boy, the state forced him to compete against girls.