Is it cheating?

DP

originally posted by: MamaJ
a reply to: Assassin82

I only read through the 3rd page and not sure if this was asked.... I didn't see it asked or maybe I am misunderstanding.

The email was part of a "homework assignment" he gave her. It included a link to a pornsite with a video of a Boss/Secretary scenario. It was personal. It was done with intent. I consider it cheating.

Yes, it was to find a video and send it to him...specifically a "boss to secretary" porn video and send it to him. My guess was the intent was so he could get the full enjoyment out of it.



Did she do her "homework assignment"?

I don't know why this won't post so we'll try again. Lol

Her homework assignment was to find the video and send it to him...which she did.

I am seeing it from a woman's perspective, but what I see is a very weak woman. She may remain like this her entire life or she may change. If she stays weak then you will have to deal with her weaknesses throughout your lives together. You would have to deal with the doubt and the worry about what she is doing and saying to other men because she is easily manipulated. Doesn't sound like a good basis for a healthy, happy relationship to me.

Sal

a reply to: Assassin82

Best case scenario; he's mentioned banging her and she's entertaining it, everything else is excuses.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs

she's denied nothing and didn't lie when I purposely tried to catch her in a lie

This is a red flag.

She has been honest. You deliberately tried to catch her lying -- psychologically baiting her. That indicates that you have a communication/trust issue right there.

The "life coach" thing might be a good idea for both of you. You say you know she's vulnerable....do you own the fact that you are insecure?


ETA: Seriously, OP. Think about your own part in this. Are you behaving from a position of suspicion and insecurity? Jealousy that someone else finds her flirtable? Do you blame HER for this? For deserving it?

Because honestly, your post can be seen as both insecure and controlling.
If you don't trust her, or think she's too weak or fragile or vulnerable to stay true, then you need someone else.

That said, we always find people who balance and/or mirror our own shortcomings. You are jealous. She is honest. She's a woman in a workplace navigating the waters. Give her a chance. DON'T ACCUSE HER of lying, and DON'T TRICK her into it.

Im sorry, but trying to identify the total degree of the situation to see if she would lie about has nothing to do about my own possible insecurities. I've accepted the fact that when we we're out in public she gets looks. I know that guys are going to hit on her. I've never looked over her shoulder and told her how she has to react or that she has to report these things to me. I'll give anyone I see checking her out an evil stare till they look away...and that's always enough to make the point.

But me trying to find out how bad the situation is by catching her in a lie is only an attempt to see if she would in fact lie. Nothing to do with anything else. I'm sorry, I was digging your first feedback, but lost it with the second one.

originally posted by: SallieSunshine
I am seeing it from a woman's perspective, but what I see is a very weak woman. She may remain like this her entire life or she may change. If she stays weak then you will have to deal with her weaknesses throughout your lives together. You would have to deal with the doubt and the worry about what she is doing and saying to other men because she is easily manipulated. Doesn't sound like a good basis for a healthy, happy relationship to me.

Sal

a reply to: Assassin82

When we first met, she was at the tail end of getting out of a verbally abusive relationship. Meaning, it had been several months since she ended it with him and she was finally ready to start dating him. The relationship before that she claims was a physically abusive relationship. I believe her...she had no self esteem and that would explain why. She'd been beaten and yelled at her adult life and probably never had someone to help build her up.

I'm a man of equality. I've been helping her develop some form of confidence for over a year now. Doing things like setting fitness goals. I got her to enter into her Masters Degree Program, something she didn't think she could accomplish. She had never really cooked before, So I taught her how to cook. Little things like that, that make a person realize they can do stuff without someone yelling at them, that she is smarter than what she's been told by past guys. It was starting to gain momentum. I saw amazing potential for her...all she had to do was start to believe in herself.

That weakness was, and maybe still is, about to turn into strength. A confident woman is a force to reckon with. But it's so difficult to learn and maintain. Anyway...if it continues between us, she will have to find confidence. Because you're right...weakness is a dangerous thing that can lead to situations just like this.

a reply to: Assassin82

Im sorry, but trying to identify the total degree of the situation to see if she would lie about has nothing to do about my own possible insecurities.

No? Why did it occur to you in the first place that she might be lying? I understand due to the "homework assignment" thing. If that was a complete surprise, then I don't blame you for squinting your eyes at it while frowning.

I've accepted the fact that when we we're out in public she gets looks. I know that guys are going to hit on her.

Very good. I believe you. I had that feeling about you, but just wanted to bring up the fragile issues evidenced in the OP.

I've never looked over her shoulder and told her how she has to react or that she has to report these things to me.

Also very good.
See that you don't. Let her handle it how she will. Allow her to tell you herself rather than catching her out.

Mate, look - I had a boyfriend who did the same crap to me that you are describing. One time he left me a late night message on my phone, and thought he hung up, but didn't --- and I got to hear an extended version that included how I was a [object description], but his girlfriend was [object again], and how the stop they made on their way to get money from some other woman indicated that [behavior description of an object.]


He called me a bit later, and wanted to know if he should come over....
I said yes.

When he got there, first thing I did was tell him I wanted him to listen to the voice message I'd gotten. Watching the blood drain from his face was something I'll never forget.

These are relational rapids, man. I'm not trying to trigger you or blame you or blame her and lick your wounds. If you're looking for pity, that's one thing.

I thought you were interested in adept "what do you guys think" answers as well as "sorry man she sucks" answers.

I think you are doing a good job sorting through it. You got irate again (defensive) at me, a stranger, for saying what I reflected back to you. Smash the screen if you want.

Just trying to help. Impressed that you reached out, and think it's a good idea for everyone, actually. If you were a client, I would say "very well done." I believe you. I had that feeling about you, but just wanted to bring up the fragile issues evidenced in the OP. I might have warned you more clearly that it might make you uncomfortable.

But being uncomfortable is part of the process.

I'll give anyone I see checking her out an evil stare till they look away...and that's always enough to make the point.

SCCREEEEEECCCHH!!!!

What was that again?

But me trying to find out how bad the situation is by catching her in a lie is only an attempt to see if she would in fact lie. Nothing to do with anything else. I'm sorry, I was digging your first feedback, but lost it with the second one.

It's only an attempt to see if would lie. I understand that. See above anecdote.
But it does have to do with TRUST. You don't fully trust her.....
dude. It just is what it is.

From my perspective. Sorry for being poopy....I'm out now.
Good luck....really. It ain't easy, having a relationship.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I see what you're doing. Suddenly by your perspective I'm the bad guy...the cause of her actions. Like glaring at a dude for checking her out in front of me is a bad thing. Stuff like that

If that's the conclusion you've come too...I'm sorry I you feel that way. But I know who I am, and I'm not this creature you're trying to describe.

a reply to: Assassin82

i never post and rarely reply but I'm going to make an exception for you.

lolwut?

really?

you believe they have not had sexual relations in their office?

you are not reading between the lines, sir.

btw, did you even think to ask why he had a personal email of hers and apparently yours.

she would have had to give it to him.

she said herself he has been hitting on her from day one.

What was her response to the video?

Seems you are trying, desperately I might add, to believe what is obviously not true.

And yes, allowing another person to talk to you in a way that only your man or woman should is emotional abandonment.

To some people, its worse than just a one night stand with the guy from the bar.

just saying

she will leave you within the year.

good luck

originally posted by: Tardacus
nope that`s not cheating but it WILL lead to cheating, why? because of this:
"she would flirt back with him, because of his high rank, she couldn't turn him in for harassment, she couldn't ask him to stop, and she didn't "
she "couldnt"? or she wouldn`t? and when she does cheat( and she will) those will be the exact same excuses she will use for cheating.
if she really does believe that she has no control over stopping someone from making unwanted advances toward her then she shouldn`t be anywhere near that person,because unwanted advances WILL eventually become unwanted sex,guaranteed.She will give in to the unwanted sex for the same reasons she is giving in to the unwanted advances.

why on god's green earth would you want to be with a weak woman like this?

that is the only question that begs an answer. imho

a reply to: Assassin82

I see what you're doing.

Do you?

Tell me what you 'see' that I'm doing:

Suddenly by your perspective I'm the bad guy...the cause of her actions.

No, man. Not like that at all. I see the guy at the office as the bad guy. I see you as the insecure lover who wants to trust his love and has no trouble warding off suitors. In this case you aren't sure how to give the stink-eye to the guy (which means you let her take care of it.....you aren't comfortable with her ability to take care of it).

Like glaring at a dude for checking her out in front of me is a bad thing.

I didn't say that. I know how to do the stink-eye myself. It isn't a bad thing at all. Why do you think I meant it was "bad"? To my processing of the info, it indicates that you are her protector and champion - which is great and appropriate. Mr Wigs is just like that. And yes, if I get in a jam, he's got my back. I applaud that level of chivalry. Well done indeed.

Stuff like that

Wait. What?

If that's the conclusion you've come too...I'm sorry I you feel that way. But I know who I am, and I'm not this creature you're trying to describe.

No conclusion. A first conversation. Observation and feedback. No law that you have to come back for the second round. But okay.



Really am sorry I yanked your chain.
Have a good night. I'm sorry for your discomfort right now, really. Take some deep breaths, and relax. Welcome her home with good cheer. Hell, share the thread if you want, but don't expect this all to just evaporate because you made a thread on ATS.

You are doing well. The mission is not yet accomplished. What you do next will have an impact, like it or not.

a reply to: Assassin82

I'm going to give your spouse the benefit of the doubt and assume that she has told you the complete truth on how this all got going, so with that in mind:



I'm assuming this is your spouse's first time experiencing this sort of thing, which would explain why she's going about it all wrong ?

Perhaps you could give her a helping hand in the situation ?

The next time this guy gives her a "homework assignment", be sure that you're the one to respond to his e-mail... asking him to describe to you in full detail exactly what sort of porn-style he'd like to see your spouse in. And then finish off your e-mail to him by asking if maybe you could talk to his wife about jumping in on the "homework" fun too ?

90% of the time when these types of guys get confronted by the husband/boyfriend, their "flirting" game suddenly comes to an abrupt halt without any repercussions happening to the female in the situation (ie: losing her job).... the guy will usually just quietly sweep it all under the rug in the hopes of "no harm no foul".

At least now when the next time this sort of thing happens to your wife (and there will be a next time), she'll have a better idea on the do's and don'ts of these types of situations.



BUT....

You also need to let it be known to your wife loud and clear that her actions (or lackthereof) were unacceptable and you will not stand for it.

She screwed up royally, and as a result, also ended up dragging you into an ugly position of having to wonder what the hell is going on behind your back.

That's not fair to you, and that's not fair to the relationship you two have built together.

She has now brought your trust into question.





Good luck to both of you and I hope you guys are able to weather this storm together and come out stronger for it.

Time to take a visit to your fiancés office. Have a chat with her boss. Don't forget to show him your cool cedar bat and pictures of all your guns and knives.

Put your fiancé on punishment for not shutting the door on his ass and letting him linger and fester up your relationship.

Also good job on your part catching it early. Women are easily led astray dispite what like to believe.


And after reading all 6 pages now, if your fiancé is indeed a Fed (emails gave it away, hillary), like my assumptions lead me to believe, either an analyst or miner, you need to Dom her. My guess is you haven't been asserting your position as Dom. Which has allowed for this asshole in a position of power to eff your ish up.

Oh and one more thing, the obvious nature of where the email was located (joint account) leads me to believe she wanted to get caught either intentionally or subconsciously.

Either way this goes don't fret, there is always time to start fresh with someone else. Your biggest mission now is to be the bigger person while making her pay for making you distrust her.

One more dynamic for the road.
Maybe her boss is doing this intentionally to break you guys up. Either to make her a field agent with little attachment, or just to play his little sick game.

For the record government officials/agents are shiesty af. Never would I date one. Too much classified and redacted for a healthy relationship. Whats more, she and her boss know things that you can never know. Eff that with a 6 foot pole.

I always need to play devil's advocate. Plus I think the age here is very important.
That said, has nobody wondered about OP's character?

You sound very sure about what you consider cheating etc. Could it have been that your fiancee was actually worried telling you about this email?


Everybody bangs on about how she is cheating and how she should have told OP, but if she knows how easily OP may get upset, she may have been worried sick telling him and could have been rally glad when he found out.

Here is my Devil's advocate stance:

Girlfriend is young and in the best job she's had so far. A job she doesn't want to lose.
Boss is coming on to her and is very nice, i.e praises her and all that malarkey. This would make everyone feel good about themselves. Doesn't man they want to jump into bed with the boss.

Anyway. Girlfriend has already, sort of told OP about boss but sees that OP is not reacting too well.

Boss now notches it up by sending her these 'homework assignments', which BTW are WELL out of order [by the boss].
She could refuse but she knows she'll end up losing the job or has to face a really awkward investigation.

The email is only a few days old and she did NOT hide it. That for me is the most important thing. It's almost as if she wants OP to find it and confront her.

SHe has not lied since and she may have had a few really horrible days since the email, feeling guilty [worst thing in the world]. Boss asked, she delivered because that would buy her some time to think about what to do. Silly but not a crime.

I don't think she's cheating, nor do I think she will. The one at fault is the one in the authoritarian position starting it.
The boss.

He is a cheeky git, enjoying that she has to lie to her boyfriend. He's getting off on that.

OP, trust your girlfriend, expose the boss for who is is and ignore those on here that seem to not know any decent women and believe we are all nasty cheaters. We are not, but young women do make mistakes. From which they will learn.

I wish I could hear her side.

a reply to: Assassin82

When we first met, she was at the tail end of getting out of a verbally abusive relationship. Meaning, it had been several months since she ended it with him and she was finally ready to start dating him. The relationship before that she claims was a physically abusive relationship. I believe her...she had no self esteem and that would explain why. She'd been beaten and yelled at her adult life and probably never had someone to help build her up.

oh boy. You knew going in.

How on earth did you go for someone so obviously needy and fragile?
So vulnerable, and weak, through no fault of her own....????

I know the feeling --- I've been there, man.
Seriously.

Now your entire OP premise is ridiculous. You didn't tell the whole story.

Yeah - no further word-trades with you. Sorry for intruding. Taking my ball and going home.

a reply to: Assassin82

I have come to a realisation that the majority of women would always have a bit of both, a family life with a caring, loving and faithful husband that would take care of everything on one hand but on the other a wild, uncontrollable romance, usually with someone representing power that would render her helpless in her mind, so that she would go crazy with her emotions. Desire of uncontrolable desire is what makes most women unpredictable. Though, in respect to women, I have to say that there are still rare breeds out there that know what true love and loyalty is but most of all know how to control their desires.

You know her and what kind of woman she is so the decision is on you. If I were you, I`d give her ultimatum...'me or your boss, you choose cause I know what you did'. Only then you may find the truth of the bigger picture...though it won`t turn out well in any case, should you make such advance.

Eventually, it all boils down to what you care more for, your girlfriend or the truth.

Good luck!

originally posted by: Hecate666
I always need to play devil's advocate. Plus I think the age here is very important.
That said, has nobody wondered about OP's character?

You sound very sure about what you consider cheating etc. Could it have been that your fiancee was actually worried telling you about this email?


Everybody bangs on about how she is cheating and how she should have told OP, but if she knows how easily OP may get upset, she may have been worried sick telling him and could have been rally glad when he found out.

Here is my Devil's advocate stance:

Girlfriend is young and in the best job she's had so far. A job she doesn't want to lose.
Boss is coming on to her and is very nice, i.e praises her and all that malarkey. This would make everyone feel good about themselves. Doesn't man they want to jump into bed with the boss.

Anyway. Girlfriend has already, sort of told OP about boss but sees that OP is not reacting too well.

Boss now notches it up by sending her these 'homework assignments', which BTW are WELL out of order [by the boss].
She could refuse but she knows she'll end up losing the job or has to face a really awkward investigation.

The email is only a few days old and she did NOT hide it. That for me is the most important thing. It's almost as if she wants OP to find it and confront her.

SHe has not lied since and she may have had a few really horrible days since the email, feeling guilty [worst thing in the world]. Boss asked, she delivered because that would buy her some time to think about what to do. Silly but not a crime.

I don't think she's cheating, nor do I think she will. The one at fault is the one in the authoritarian position starting it.
The boss.

He is a cheeky git, enjoying that she has to lie to her boyfriend. He's getting off on that.

OP, trust your girlfriend, expose the boss for who is is and ignore those on here that seem to not know any decent women and believe we are all nasty cheaters. We are not, but young women do make mistakes. From which they will learn.

I wish I could hear her side.

Me too. Bumping your post. Thanks.

a reply to: Hecate666

So going into submission is a way to go for you? Sorry but I`d rather lose my job than my decency, no matter the job. Moreover, it tells more about you in the eyes of your boss than you may think. This is how respect is earned, not the other way around.

OP, trust your girlfriend, expose the boss for who is is and ignore those on here that seem to not know any decent women and believe we are all nasty cheaters. We are not, but young women do make mistakes. From which they will learn.

That`s the problem isn`t it? You always think it`s just a mistake and that you can move on like nothing happened. Thing is that you only learn, Big IF, when something wonderful that you had is over and it hurts bad. But if nothing changes, you`ll always take the advantage of it.

P.S. Don`t take it personally, I just had to address it this way

a reply to: Assassin82

Her homework assignment was to find the video and send it to him...which she did

"Which she did" would be enough for me. I have been in this type of situation before and for ME, PERSONALLY, I would/did beat a dead horse and never trust 100% again. If you don't have trust you have nothing and have to begin again.

A relationship of any kind has to be built with a solid foundation otherwise it will be weak and eventually become so unstable it cracks and falls.

You have to do what is best for you. Men generally can get over stuff better than women, I assume.

I wish you the best of luck. Love she has for you SHOULD have been enough to prevent her from following through on the homework assignment.

My relationship with my fiance is first priority. I love him more each and every day, he's my soul mate!! I don't want another, he's perfect for me!!

If my boss did something out of the way my first thought would be to leave, call my fiance and come up with a plan to leave the job or to have him GONE!

originally posted by: Assassin82

I've accepted the fact that when we we're out in public she gets looks. I know that guys are going to hit on her. I've never looked over her shoulder and told her how she has to react or that she has to report these things to me. I'll give anyone I see checking her out an evil stare till they look away...and that's always enough to make the point.

Bad move there on your part .... when you see anyone staring or likely to hit on

her put your arm around her, caress her upper arm, whisper something in her ear,

and then kiss her lightly so he's in no doubt she is with you ...smile directly at him

and move on.

Much more positive than the evil stare!!