Is it cheating?

For those saying that it's a given she has cheated, will cheat or wants to one day cheat...I'm not ignoring that possibility. Not at all. But I do have to do my due diligence and be certain. I have to completely discover this new wrinkle in our relationship...and be certain at its place, it's depth, it's cause, it's harm, potential and truth.

If I walked away now and somehow found out she was telling the truth...then I would forever regret that. If I support her and find out she's telling the truth, then it's the right thing to do by standing by her. If I support her and find out she lied and there was much more too it...then nobody can ever say I wasn't reasonable and supportive despite what the truth may be. However this all turns out...I have to be happy with myself in the end of all possible outcomes.

But don't think I'm casting out the possibility that I'm only scratching the surface of what's going on here.

What strikes me as funny in this thread that the women are inclined to believe

that It isnt that odd ... and the men all appear to believe she is or will be

cheating.

Is that because many women have been in similar situations without compromising

their integrity, but a man in the same situation would not be able to or have the

moral will power to resist the temptation


As I have said earlier that I was in similar situations in my working life without ever

crossing the line ......

But it was my husband, now long my ex. who was unable to maintain his moral

integrity.

a reply to: Assassin82

i think it is good that you are not flipping out. instead you are trying to rationally work through this.
that is a good thing.

still man.
i can not think of a single situation where it would be ok for my wife to send some porno clip to her boss.
that is never ok. not even a little. not even if she wants to keep her job.

maybe your relationship functions differently. i would have expected my wife to tell me what the boss wanted her to do and then i would have expected her to tell me that she told him to # off.
sounds about right.

originally posted by: eletheia

Is that because many women have been in similar situations without compromising

their integrity, but a man in the same situation would not be able to or have the

moral will power to resist the temptation

No. It's because I've been through that, and I've seen more than a friend go through that, too. We don't want to believe, and lie to ourselves, which only lead to immense suffering, later on.
I've resisted plenty of temptations during my 12 years of marriage, and never gave in. That's just not the case. I love my wife, and I'm not willing to throw it all away for sex. But there are people who will. Sometimes, certain people cheat. Men, women, whatever. Sometimes, people cheat. That's all.

a reply to: Assassin82

Dude,think it's time to be looking for new venues,especially if it's your fiance,the future doesn't bode well put your efforts where they will be appreciated,no need to be treated like that,very disrespectful,no telling whatelse could be up

originally posted by: Raven_Heart
No. It's because I've been through that, and I've seen more than a friend go through that, too. We don't want to believe, and lie to ourselves, which only lead to immense suffering, later on.

Lying is corrosion to trust I have already said *trust*

is the most important part of a relationship.

I've resisted plenty of temptations during my 12 years of marriage, and never gave in. That's just not the case. I love my wife, and I'm not willing to throw it all away for sex.

I commend you for that, but in the bigger picture 12 years is not that

long... I know of two people (and believe me they are not stupid) each of

which was fooled for 25 plus years by the man they lived with who for that

whole time was carrying on another relationship.... but thats another thread

But there are people who will. Sometimes, certain people cheat. Men, women, whatever. Sometimes, people cheat. That's all.

Unfortunately the world is full of untrustworthy people

a reply to: Assassin82

Assassin82,

I applaud your reasoning and your fortitude. It takes great courage to adopt the stance you have adopted, and I can only say that I hope that everything turns out as well as possible.

I think the best thing would be for YOU to talk to him.

I dealt with the same type of thing at one point with my wife. She was being hit on by her boss, enough to make her uncomfortable enough to tell me about it. So one day I went to her work to pick her up. And I seen her boss outside having a smoke. I went and stood with him and lit up. Introduced myself as politely as I could. Gave his hand an extra bit of squeeze on a handshake. After some basic chit chat about the business and what not, I just said to him. My wifes beautiful, I know that. But I shouldnt have to hear about someone taking interest in someone with a ring on their finger.
Instantly it was apologise about I didn't even look if she has a ring on. Im sorry. I let him worm around with his excuses for about a minute. Then said, well thanks for being understanding and seeing it from my point of view.
Gave him a slap on the shoulder and walked away.

After that, my wife said he apologised to her as well for being inappropriate. And that was the end of that.

Being a gentleman at times, does get the point across and still allows the other person to keep his ego.
And with those people, you need to allow them that, or else they will take it out on the person they were hitting on.

a reply to: eletheia

Lying is corrosion to trust I have already said *trust* is the most important part of a relationship.

Unfortunately the world is full of untrustworthy people

Agreed.

I know of two people (and believe me they are not stupid) each of which was fooled for 25 plus years by the man they lived with who for that whole time was carrying on another relationship.

Oh, I know that kind of thing happens way more often than we may imagine. Can happen to anyone, no matter how much of a good wife/husband you are. But when you find out what's been happening, there's no use in lying to yourself. You just aknowledge that it happened, do what you have to do and move on. Or accept that you're in a relationship with a unfaithful person and keep going, if that's your thing.

I do have one thought that I'd like you to consider OP, and I apologize if it's already been mentioned, but I'm concerned that she sent HIM the porn. Specifically since blackmail is a real possibility, and all things considered (and I apologize for my bluntness) but she appears to be weak-willed. It is a possibility that he could use this to blackmail her into an affair. Does she have any proof that he gave her this "assignment"? If not things can be far worse than we're thinking.

Like many have said here this is not a good situation mainly because she accepted to play along. Any woman can tell you that the way to get rid of jerks like that is not by encouraging them or even ignoring them. Is stupid to think "maybe if I play along he'll stop". The only way to stop something like this is by cutting it short and clear when the first attempt was made.
She didn't do that because she somehow enjoyed it. She didn't tell you about it and more than probably if you didn't caught that email she would have kept playing along.
The question right now for you to ask yourself is knowing all that if you could trust her in the future. I understand that you love her and try to believe that everything will be ok, but what about next time when someone makes a move on her and she plays along? And maybe you won't catch it on time, like now? Jerks like this are everywhere. Can you go on living with her and wondering about this all the time? Can you trust her that next time she'll be strong enough to not fall for it? Or at least to come and tell you about it?

That's your decision and your life. Wish you all the best and let's hope it will all end up well.

a reply to: Assassin82

I only read through the 3rd page and not sure if this was asked.... I didn't see it asked or maybe I am misunderstanding.

The email was part of a "homework assignment" he gave her. It included a link to a pornsite with a video of a Boss/Secretary scenario. It was personal. It was done with intent. I consider it cheating.

Did she do her "homework assignment"?

There are degrees of cheating, overt, lust, thoughts...If I watch porn and my wife knows it, it is still a form of cheating. Committed relationships require trust, so I don't hide my use from my wife, but I still feel guilty of cheating. If I have a webcam session, that is cheating even though there is not touching involved.

I would be more concerned with the fact that this was sexual harassment. She should have been up front about it and told you what her boss did instead of you finding it out. Maybe she was going to tell you, not sure what the time line was.

Either way it is a lie by omission and still a form of cheating, just not overt in nature. The relationship needs work though if it is going to continue with any modicum of success.

Good luck I hope it works out better than it did for me the first time.

The fact she didn't tell you would be worrisome to me at an ultra high level, but I have been personally hurt in the past by a cheating #####.

Now I have moved on been married to my wife for 6 years nd together for 11. Something I have found out is it takes trust and communication to make this work. I have trust issues due to my personal history but to ate he has never even given me a hint of a reason to worry because we talk about these kind of things when they happen.

Good luck again I hope for our sake it works out and you end up happy in the long run no matter what twist or turn comes your way.

Crim

a reply to: Assassin82

I'm really late to the session, but want to offer an answer anyway. I speak from the woman's point of view -

She denies there ever being any physical contact. I'm inclined to believe her because outside of work we practically spend every minute together to include living together. She says she's not unhappy in any aspect of our relationship, she still loves me and would be devastated if her actions ruined our relationship.

I was irate when I discovered it. I have no tolerance for cheating. But I kind of feel like it's in a grey area of sorts. I have no doubt that he has applied enough pressure over time to lure her into it. I know that her lack of self confidence allows for a sense of vulnerability.

For perspective, since I confronted her she's denied nothing and didn't lie when I purposely tried to catch her in a lie. Also, she's taking all the right steps (so far) to fix it...even going so far as getting a life coach to help with her self esteem issues.
So...what do you guys think...is it cheating?

because I have more than once been in the exact same situation as your love finds herself now (or rather your collective love finds itself).......

Honesty is something that my husband demands. I tell him right up front when men are flirting with me, but he allows me to deal with it myself. The way I do that is to explain matter-of-factly to the suitor that I am not available.

I explained to my boss that there was never ever going to be anything between us.

No, it is not cheating. But if she continues to 'allow it' without telling him in no uncertain terms that while she appreciates the gesture of finding her attractive there is NO WAY that anything will ever come of it.

Pin in his balloon, ya know. Let's him off the hook. Could just be he's a flirt - I know many people like that, and find it easy to do myself ---- all just acting. Just playing. NEVER real. But both parties need to be upfront about it with each other, and the third party - in this case, you, OP - needs to be able to trust that they are just goofing off.

It isn't "cheating" unless you demand that she never talk to him in any manner whatsoever.

A reverse situation - a person with whom Mr Wigs and I are both acquainted, but not at all "friends" or "close", felt it was fine for her to slap his rump whenever she walked by -- and do it right in front of me.

I told him calmly to tell her to knock it off. He did. She stopped.
End of story.

It mostly just depends on how her boss responds to her stated boundaries at this point. The above is the appropriate handling of it. He might flip out and get nasty. Keep these posts and the thread as evidence. Keep the emails (screen capture) on your own devices. You'll have a case if he gives her crap about it then.


Sorry this is happening to you.......
but it sounds like she's a nice girl who gets easily flattered. She can work through it, but it will take resolve.
She sounds just exactly like I once was. We were taught to just ignore it. That was 40 years ago. Now it is not okay. She'll have to navigate the 'office culture', and might do well to find an ally there. Maybe another woman, or a disinterested but long-timer guy.

I don't know.
Good thread. I wish we had more complicated case studies like these to discuss.
Thanks for your contribution to the evolution of societal norms, manners, and the changing culture in which we live.

she's denied nothing and didn't lie when I purposely tried to catch her in a lie

This is a red flag.

She has been honest. You deliberately tried to catch her lying -- psychologically baiting her. That indicates that you have a communication/trust issue right there.

The "life coach" thing might be a good idea for both of you. You say you know she's vulnerable....do you own the fact that you are insecure?


ETA: Seriously, OP. Think about your own part in this. Are you behaving from a position of suspicion and insecurity? Jealousy that someone else finds her flirtable? Do you blame HER for this? For deserving it?

Because honestly, your post can be seen as both insecure and controlling.
If you don't trust her, or think she's too weak or fragile or vulnerable to stay true, then you need someone else.

That said, we always find people who balance and/or mirror our own shortcomings. You are jealous. She is honest. She's a woman in a workplace navigating the waters. Give her a chance. DON'T ACCUSE HER of lying, and DON'T TRICK her into it.

originally posted by: eletheia


What strikes me as funny in this thread that the women are inclined to believe

that It isnt that odd ... and the men all appear to believe she is or will be

cheating.

Is that because many women have been in similar situations without compromising

their integrity, but a man in the same situation would not be able to or have the

moral will power to resist the temptation

As I have said earlier that I was in similar situations in my working life without ever

crossing the line ......

But it was my husband, now long my ex. who was unable to maintain his moral

integrity.

Lots of this ^ needs to be stated.
We lived with this stuff routinely. We didn't have the freedom to report it, and even NOW, reporting things results in either large monetary settlements, or being marched out the door by security. That, or they decide you're a dead cow, and begin accumulating their own "evidence" . I've been a victim of that, too. It was a woman, though - a really mean girl, not a sleazy horny guy.

originally posted by: Rookseven
I do have one thought that I'd like you to consider OP, and I apologize if it's already been mentioned, but I'm concerned that she sent HIM the porn. Specifically since blackmail is a real possibility, and all things considered (and I apologize for my bluntness) but she appears to be weak-willed. It is a possibility that he could use this to blackmail her into an affair. Does she have any proof that he gave her this "assignment"? If not things can be far worse than we're thinking.

I have his response to the email. He states "ohhh that totally did the job for me!!! Good job on the homework assignment!!"

I believe that's acknowledgment of the situation. Enough that he couldn't get out of the situation by pinning it solely on her. I was he responded...figured they'd be better at knowing how emails work. I'm like a mini wiki-leaks here with copies of the emails...ha!

originally posted by: WhiteHat
Like many have said here this is not a good situation mainly because she accepted to play along. Any woman can tell you that the way to get rid of jerks like that is not by encouraging them or even ignoring them. Is stupid to think "maybe if I play along he'll stop". The only way to stop something like this is by cutting it short and clear when the first attempt was made.
She didn't do that because she somehow enjoyed it. She didn't tell you about it and more than probably if you didn't caught that email she would have kept playing along.
The question right now for you to ask yourself is knowing all that if you could trust her in the future. I understand that you love her and try to believe that everything will be ok, but what about next time when someone makes a move on her and she plays along? And maybe you won't catch it on time, like now? Jerks like this are everywhere. Can you go on living with her and wondering about this all the time? Can you trust her that next time she'll be strong enough to not fall for it? Or at least to come and tell you about it?

That's your decision and your life. Wish you all the best and let's hope it will all end up well.

I used to give trust to anyone I knew till they broke it...then give them a chance to gain it back. Most times...they break it again. One day, and I don't know when, I changed my thought process to "I trust nobody, until they earn my trust".

A year and a half, and now I question everyday of it. I do question if I can ever trust her again. I question if I caught it at the beginning, the middle of the end. I questions if still she lies to me about it. And I question the totality of our future together.

Right now, I'm playing the "be patient and let the answers come to me" card while I observe her long term reaction.

I wish I hadn't said anything to be honest. I wish I would have kept it quiet that I knew...and waited like a snake in the grass to see how far this thing would go. But...emotion won and I called her out with what I already had.

Trust...so powerful of a thing to have yet so fragile too.

First of all.... That was meant to be sarcastic.....secondly , if he gets fired from work, his wife will find out regardless...and either way his married life is done if he's cheating on her now ....maybe the wife would be better off if she found out , they could go to counciling , rather then living a lie . ....of course all of that is IF the boss Is even married. .......I'm sorry you've been through this situation too, but honestly that wife comment was meant to be sarcastic.

As for the OP : you are correct in getting to the bottom of all this and not regretting giving her a chance ...because it sounds like you will regret it otherwise. ...good luck and hopefully she will realize the hurt she has caused you .

reply to: akira131