The Police Are Our Friends

Notice my signiture.

"Who will guard the guards?"



[edit on 14-3-2005 by Pandoras Box]

IA does, Pandora's. That is their exclusive jurisdiction- other officers from ALL branches.

DE

Originally posted by DeusEx
IA does, Pandora's. That is their exclusive jurisdiction- other officers from ALL branches.

DE

and who guards them? And then those above them?

"to serve and protect". I have no problem with that idea. But who will protect us from those that wish to abuse thier power? Power is an aphrodisiac and there is no such thing as an innoccent man...

[edit on 14-3-2005 by Pandoras Box]

A knife is considered a lethal weapon at twenty feet and under. It WILL penetrate a vest without stab plates. So, guess what...cops counter lethal force with MORE lethal force. I don't know about you, but knowing nothing short of a headshot on a moving target will stop a man with a knife before he gets to you at under 20 feet seems daunting. I'm not about to send officers into that kind of danger swinging nightsticks. People need to learn about the procedure.

Taking a knife away from a guy w/o a baton was one of the first things I learned as a kooler years back. It should be standard training.

I do agree that people need to learn a lot more about procedures, but the majority are too occupied with their own lives to understand what the Basics of the US Constitution are, let alone learn anything new.

Part of the problem with the cops is that they are "Too" anxious to escalate things - which may be why some criminals are matching (and in some cases exceeding) the firepower the cops use.

I do know that things cannot keep going the way that they are, or the US will be Controled Movement. Us and them. We Now have camaras at intersections for "Traffic Control Use" (Ya, Sure - one more step in the wrong direction).

It may sound strange, but I don't fear Criminals, I fear the cops.

Cops have power, power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts Absolutely.

Has anyone read 1984 or Animal Farm??

Originally posted by dancer
Taking a knife away from a guy w/o a baton was one of the first things I learned as a kooler years back. It should be standard training.

it is. But really, do you WANT to get that close to an armed criminal, and risk your life like that? As a screw, you're stuck at those distances and don't have the firearm option all the time.

I do agree that people need to learn a lot more about procedures, but the majority are too occupied with their own lives to understand what the Basics of the US Constitution are, let alone learn anything new.

Part of the problem with the cops is that they are "Too" anxious to escalate things - which may be why some criminals are matching (and in some cases exceeding) the firepower the cops use.

What? Didn't have the Magic Force Wheel? It's all about perception of threat. If I perceive a threat to be lethal, I'm going to go for my gun. I'm sorry if cops seem anxious to escalate, but our criminals are free range.

I do know that things cannot keep going the way that they are, or the US will be Controled Movement. Us and them. We Now have camaras at intersections for "Traffic Control Use" (Ya, Sure - one more step in the wrong direction).

It may sound strange, but I don't fear Criminals, I fear the cops.

Cops have power, power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts Absolutely.

Has anyone read 1984 or Animal Farm??

I've read both, and neither quite fits right. Your opinion of traffic cams is your own, and cops don't have absolutel power. They are limited by a LOT of things. BTW, you should fear the cops. That's part of their tools. You should know- if there's a brawl in the yard, the instant the penal officers step in, everyone steps back and says 'not me, boss'. Same with cops.

DE

[quote:] Originally posted by dancer
Taking a knife away from a guy w/o a baton was one of the first things I learned as a kooler years back. It should be standard training.

it is. But really, do you WANT to get that close to an armed criminal, and risk your life like that? As a screw, you're stuck at those distances and don't have the firearm option all the time.
The options we had were simply to disarm ASAP. Had to call in before using Spray.

[Quote]
Part of the problem with the cops is that they are "Too" anxious to escalate things - which may be why some criminals are matching (and in some cases exceeding) the firepower the cops use.

What? Didn't have the Magic Force Wheel? It's all about perception of threat. If I perceive a threat to be lethal, I'm going to go for my gun. I'm sorry if cops seem anxious to escalate, but our criminals are free range.

Why?
With new laws everyday, it seems that those who make the laws are trying to make us illegal. Therefore we all are or will soon to be criminals.
As such we cannot strike back at a system that is only interested in hearing what the cops say. As if the cops word is gospel and ours means nothing. That point cannot be that far off either, as I have noticed a tendancy towards a military police law enforcement system that could (Insert rest of tangent here).

I do know that things cannot keep going the way that they are, or the US will be Controled Movement. Us and them. We Now have camaras at intersections for "Traffic Control Use" (Ya, Sure - one more step in the wrong direction).

It may sound strange, but I don't fear Criminals, I fear the cops.

Cops have power, power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts Absolutely.

Has anyone read 1984 or Animal Farm??

I've read both, and neither quite fits right. Your opinion of traffic cams is your own, and cops don't have absolutel power. They are limited by a LOT of things.

BTW, you should fear the cops. That's part of their tools. You should know- if there's a brawl in the yard, the instant the penal officers step in, everyone steps back and says 'not me, boss'. Same with cops.

The fighters both get locked up until t is sorted out, one if not both get 30+ days in the box. (Funny, the first thing inmates are told when they hit the system is "Ya do what ya gotta do ain't nobody got your back except you."

I don't think it should be fear, it should be respect. Fear is a reaction, or preperation for a potential problem. Respect is a dignity, I respect cleargy, but I don't fear them, and although there are a few that would victemise cleargy, most would hesitate out of respect.

On the yard, your are out numbered, You and over 100 of them all by your lonesome, some have weapons and may or may not use them. The ones that would have nothing to loose by doing it, except a few freedoms they can get on the inside. They don't fear you, it is between tolorance and respect.

If you fear them, even though they could tear you to pieces before help could arrive but if fear is anywhere near you they can smell it, and they will catalog it for use in the future, that may be in 5 minutes or in 20 years but that one charicter flaw is magnified when you are being studdied and analized. So Fear is very bad. You then have a problem.

So it stagnates at a mutual respect.

Some are there to do their time and get out asap, others are doing life, or doing life on the installment plan. Respect they do understand the simple idea of I can if you make me, so don't make me. Vs. the We could kill ya for the fun of it - we're doing life anyway.

Originally posted by dancer

The options we had were simply to disarm ASAP. Had to call in before using Spray.

Cops don't have to call before using the spray, but the spray's no good past about 7-8 feet, max. Taser goes to about 15, but that's five feet beyond it's accurate range, and ten feet closer to an armed suspect than I'd like to be.

Why?
With new laws everyday, it seems that those who make the laws are trying to make us illegal. Therefore we all are or will soon to be criminals.
As such we cannot strike back at a system that is only interested in hearing what the cops say. As if the cops word is gospel and ours means nothing. That point cannot be that far off either, as I have noticed a tendancy towards a military police law enforcement system that could (Insert rest of tangent here).

That's just paranoid ramblings. Maybe in your country that's how it is down there, but cops are still jsut guys trying to do their jobs. If you're a repeat offender, do you really think your word's going to carry in court?


The fighters both get locked up until t is sorted out, one if not both get 30+ days in the box. (Funny, the first thing inmates are told when they hit the system is "Ya do what ya gotta do ain't nobody got your back except you."

I don't think it should be fear, it should be respect. Fear is a reaction, or preperation for a potential problem. Respect is a dignity, I respect cleargy, but I don't fear them, and although there are a few that would victemise cleargy, most would hesitate out of respect.

Yeah...some, not all. Personally, I'm going to prefer that common citizens respect me, and criminals fear me and don't resist. dignity doesn't stop bullets or fists, but fear of the reprecussions sure does.

On the yard, your are out numbered, You and over 100 of them all by your lonesome, some have weapons and may or may not use them. The ones that would have nothing to loose by doing it, except a few freedoms they can get on the inside. They don't fear you, it is between tolorance and respect.

If you fear them, even though they could tear you to pieces before help could arrive but if fear is anywhere near you they can smell it, and they will catalog it for use in the future, that may be in 5 minutes or in 20 years but that one charicter flaw is magnified when you are being studdied and analized. So Fear is very bad. You then have a problem.

So it stagnates at a mutual respect.

Some are there to do their time and get out asap, others are doing life, or doing life on the installment plan. Respect they do understand the simple idea of I can if you make me, so don't make me. Vs. the We could kill ya for the fun of it - we're doing life anyway.

It's a very different environment on the inside, completely seperate from the 'civilized' world. However, your last two points (italised) applies on the outside too- if a guy has a warant for something big out and gets pulled over, he's not going to think twice about shooting an unsuspecting cop. Fortunately, most people fall under the first kind of respect/fear that you describe- I can make you do what I want, so don't make me. Any sort of resistance jsut results in you making the cop do what he has to.

DE

That's just paranoid ramblings. Maybe in your country that's how it is down there, but cops are still jsut guys trying to do their jobs. If you're a repeat offender, do you really think your word's going to carry in court?

Although the bad cops are the minority, those are the ones you hear about. Unfortunately, that is what the perception is becoming.

Yeah...some, not all. Personally, I'm going to prefer that common citizens respect me, and criminals fear me and don't resist. dignity doesn't stop bullets or fists, but fear of the reprecussions sure does.

I am not sure about that (personally), Criminals fear retribution in a physical way - they don't fear the courts, the courts will take some time - sure but thats part of the game. Ever notice that there is very little crime in Italian neighbourhoods?(Not to be a nationalist or anything) but guys named Vinny don't put up with it in their neighbourhoods, and don't involve the cops if there is.

Sure, the inside is different, at least we know who is likely to come at us..

but the recent media makes it very hard for a kid to believe

Hit man cops a first in corruption cases
www.nynewsday.com...

CBC News:New scandal envelops Toronto police

www.cbc.ca...

unfortunatly the media is fullof stories that say KIDS>> DON"T TRUST COPS!

its not like the dept is corrupt...its less then 1% of ANY major department...I'd like ANY other job compared to that...politicians?...no...lawyers....no....firefighters...no....the media loves the bad cop because it sells more papers...it wouldnt be "news" if it was the norm...

I just want to say something real quick, then I'm gonna leave this thread alone to metastize...

There is NO good way to take away a knife. There are a lot of possibly effective strategies, most of which rely on equal parts luck and speed.

I know a lot about hand-to-hand. A LOT. I've studied several styles extensively, and I have a working knowledge of maybe a dozen others. I'm even in the process of developing my own style. I know lots of holds, and throws, and I understand perfectly the concept of balance and weight distribution. I'm also trained in knife fighting, and machete fighting, and sword fighting (in the Japanese style). Now that that's out of the way...

Taking a knife away from even an untrained attacker is a dangerous proposition, you risk getting cut unless you have a shield, some kind of barrier. The poor man's shield is to wrap a sweatshirt around your arm, but that's not something we should be asking the cops to do. The best trained martial artist facing off the drunkest, stupidest street criminal in the world, still hates to see a knife drawn, because it severely limits the options for engagement, because you basically have to wait for the attacker to overextend themselves.

I agree that cops abuse their power too often, and the public's trust in them erodes as a result. However..asking a cop to take a knife away from a criminal is just foolish. We give cops guns for a reason, to protect themselves from deadly harm. Trust me, a knife is deadly.

Would I hesitate to defend myself? Absolutely not. Why then, would I ask a cop to do the same? I wouldn't, and neither should anybody else.

We're trained to take it a step up...the guy gets crazy...the OC spray is used...gets violent (no weapons)...the nightstick may be used...a weapon...then comes the gun...its just how we're trained...we dont get paid a junk salary to go toe to toe with any perp...our job is to stop the perp from doing what he's doing with the force deemed necessary at the time to do it...not to be superman and dodge bullets...we have families too...

heres my two cents...

I dont dislike cops in general, I do know a lot that I dislike though. I usually dont share this kind of information, but seeing as it might contribute to the topic, i'll share a bit with ya'll.

Ive been arested about 16-20 times - been booked most of those times. some of the time I was charged with disorderly conduct, but most of the time, I really did commit a crime.. Im not saying all cops do this, but they arreseted me mostly to fill their quota. You see, I live in a pay in kansas called Johnson County, its praticially crime free, so these OPPD (Overland Park Police Department) cops arrest people to finish up for the day. Its redicilous.

the point is, people that come into bad incounters with the police, usually end up hating them. It could either be a true crime, or a quota fill, were always gonna have people that disrespect and dislike police.


btw..I've cleaned up my act now; And I have a good life. I just dont want to end up as another quota fill.

over and out,

Jared

Originally posted by instar
Heres a scenario for you.
5 (count em) cops surround a man with a knife on a beach. there are no citizens close (because the cops, all of em, have the guns drawn and trained on the guy)
The guy may or may not be mentally ill (its later confirmed he is not but was under much stress and simply lost it)
He is waving the knife, and the cops order him to drop the knife several times.
The man is not moving toward police, simply not dropping the knife.
A young cop opens fire killing the man.

Honestly, if someone waved a knife at me, I'd put a hole in him too.

ANd some of you make it sound like all cops spend most of their time waving guns in grandma's face.

BREAKING NEWS!

Most cops will never fire their weapon.

EDIT: Sorry I replied to a much earlier post, I didn't see there were 6 pages after it

[edit on 18-3-2005 by rp001]

Police Shootings: Still Rare
Police shootings receive intense media coverage but are still relatively rare. The U.S. Department of Justice reports that less than one percent of encounters with police involve threats or use of force. Blacks and Hispanics, however, report violent or potentially violent encounters with police at twice the rate of whites. Fifty-seven percent of those involved in a police force situation reported that they had argued, disobeyed or resisted or had been drinking or using drugs at the time.

The Justice Department reports that police kill about 400 people each year. These deaths are referred to as "justifiable homicides," incidents in which the suspect is killed to prevent death or injury to the officer or another person. The percentage of white suspects killed by police is rising, while the percentage of black suspects killed by police is falling, the department reports. The Justice Department does not collect statistics on killings by police in which the officer used excessive force or may have committed a crime.

Since 1976, about 1,800 police officers were killed in line of duty. From 1990 to 1999, 658 police officers were killed on duty by people who were later charged with a crime. In 1999, 42 police officers were murdered, the lowest rate in 35 years.

PBS

Sure cops are good and everything when we're in trouble. But why do they like donuts so much?

because (atleast at night) dunkin donuts and fast food are the only things open...

Please dont call getting paid $60/hr on detail in addition to a full salaried position a low paying job. The bottom line is that most people become police officers because its the best job they can get and it well help them move out of their parent's basement. It's funny that I need a college degree to make 27k pushing papers around, but not one to be a cop.

Generally, that would be because work experience is more valueable. To put it bluntly, a PhD in philosophy or computer sciences won't stop soem punk from beating your head in with a rock.

DE

Originally posted by hokmah
Please dont call getting paid $60/hr on detail in addition to a full salaried position a low paying job. The bottom line is that most people become police officers because its the best job they can get and it well help them move out of their parent's basement. It's funny that I need a college degree to make 27k pushing papers around, but not one to be a cop.

In NY...you need the same College Credits as having an Associates degree to get hired...and by the way...I have my BA...with a good GPA...and I still chose this job...and theres plenty others like me...and a cop in NY doesnt make $60 an hour on a detail...for the first 5 years its about $30....after that its about $50...but then again...if youre forced to work on a day off...standing for 8hrs 35 minutes...you should be making 1 1/2 overtime...

[edit on 4/4/2005 by BasementAddix]