Did Paul Invent Christianity?

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

God can inspire and give his word any way he likes. The only problem is you not accepting it.

Paul mentions God 494 times. There is one fundamental difference Paul teaches, Jesus is God. Even the Jews wanted to stone him not because of any good work but because he made himself out to be God.

If you don't divide/or take Paul's writings from the New testament you will see that he does in fact expand all the teachings of Jesus and of Moses. We are not to be under the law but it has benefit for us.

But just to make it known, Paul does teach specifically about loving God.

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.
1Co 8:3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.

This love for God is expanded from that of Jesus and lets us know the benefits of loving God are.

Jesus taught about is crucifixion and Paul expands on it.

Mr 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and [of] the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
Mt 26:1 ¶ And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples,
2 Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.
Lu 9:22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.

Look at Paul's inspired writings as Jesus expanding on the truths he gave during his earthly ministry about the crucifixion and what the benefits are to men bcause of his crucifixion.

You know God opened my heart to receive understanding of his word when I came to it not to find errors but to find truth. I was like you having doubts about God's word and found it exhausting to have to go back to unverified copies of the originals in Hebrew and Greek. But when I found his promise to preserve his word to every generation forever, I sought for that promised preserved Bible in the trade language of English, for English is the primary language for trade to day. That is when I found the AV.

I do not hold the exact teachings of those who call themselves KJV only I am not that extreme however I am staunch about God having preserved his word. Like I have said, the AV has ALL the verses, it defines the English words by its context, the words, terms, phrases and verses cross reference to other parts of the Bible so we can learn greater truths.

I wish you could hear my intonation and see my expressions and body language, for if you could you would see how much I love you and desire you to come to the knowledge of truth. One comes to Christ as a child, if you want to know his word it is the same way. Paul is God's/Jesus way of expanding his teaching for us today. But no worry we will see him soon enough.

Grace and peace be unto you.

CJ

a reply to: Akragon

JHVH is actually a English transliteration of the Hebrew copies of the Old Testament.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

There is no J in Hebrew.... nor does it have an equivalent

Thus Jehovah is just wrong for a name of this god

a reply to: Akragon

Ak, I have not listened to men in many years. I stopped reading commentaries, or other men's writings about the Bible and for 10 years now. I have only read and studied the AV Bible. Every morning and every evening I give my self over to reading and studying the Bible with the Bible and nothing else.

However occasionally I visit Ken "brandplucked" Kenny's site where he has some of the best evidence of there not being contradictions in the Bible. But I have not read some of his stuff since 2011. If interested in reading about those so called contradictions go here brandplucked.webs.com...

By studying the Bible by the Bible (only one version) it has shown me there are no contradictions. Most of what men call contradictions are made up by men whose hearts are only looking for contradictions and errors.

Go to the Bible seeking truth by praying, "god show me truth" with a pure heart motive and you will find truths beyond what most Christians know. And you will not have to eliminate any scriptures to see how it all fits together.

Love ya guys, give God thanks for all he has blessed us with, and may your thanks giving day go well. I will be reading the story of thanks giving started by the pilgrims to my children tomorrow

a reply to: Akragon

It is not about Hebrew it is about English the preservation that God had given is actually LORD the JHVH is the English letters not Hebrew. There is a verse transliterated and it tells us that Israel when coming out of Egypt will know the name that no one before knew and that is Jehovah. And it is a transliteration based on the evidences they had in translating the unverified copies they had and God inspiring them how to write the version in English that His word would be preserved to this generation as promised. Remember now it is a transliteration and inspiration

Ex 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by [the name of] God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

I simply must say god is true in preserving it that way.

Happy thanksgiving, I know you have a lot to be thankful to God for as I do.

Be Blessed.

Yes I will do this. I do have much that will enlighten people and sorry to say probably make some people angry at the history I can share of meanings and what really the scriptures are about. I will have to make some easy subjects that will lead into larger info to share with you. Again thank you for allowing me to share truth with ALL. English is a tough subject for me, but will do the thread not sure what the 20 posts are but will look it up Sam " Every person is entitled to their opinion but every person is not entitled to their own facts" a reply to: Akragon

a reply to: akaSAM

not sure what the 20 posts are but will look it up

it means you need 20 replies before you can start your own thread on the forum

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Akragon

JHVH is actually a English transliteration of the Hebrew copies of the Old Testament.

YHWH is the most common rendering of the Tetragrammaton, always translated Lord, the pronunciation all but lost, though Yahweh is how it's pronounced or Jahweh/Jahveh.

I only know for certain that Jehovah is not remotely correct. Oh, and when a word begins with the sound of a vowel you use 'an' and not 'a.'

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

God can inspire and give his word any way he likes. The only problem is you not accepting it.

Paul mentions God 494 times. There is one fundamental difference Paul teaches, Jesus is God. Even the Jews wanted to stone him not because of any good work but because he made himself out to be God.

If you don't divide/or take Paul's writings from the New testament you will see that he does in fact expand all the teachings of Jesus and of Moses. We are not to be under the law but it has benefit for us.

But just to make it known, Paul does teach specifically about loving God.

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.
1Co 8:3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.

This love for God is expanded from that of Jesus and lets us know the benefits of loving God are.

Jesus taught about is crucifixion and Paul expands on it.

Mr 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and [of] the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
Mt 26:1 ¶ And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples,
2 Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.
Lu 9:22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.

Look at Paul's inspired writings

I have read Paul's nonsense. It's not inspired by anything divine and it being inspired is simply your opinion.

I find no inspirational content, just hate, jealousy, boasting, insults and repeated insistence of not lying.

Compared with the Gospels I don't see what purpose Paul has in Christianity, he never met Jesus and it shows.

as Jesus expanding on the truths he gave during his earthly ministry about the crucifixion and what the benefits are to men bcause of his crucifixion.

You know God opened my heart to receive understanding of his word when I came to it not to find errors but to find truth. I was like you having doubts about God's word and found it exhausting to have to go back to unverified copies of the originals in Hebrew and Greek. But when I found his promise to preserve his word to every generation forever, I sought for that promised preserved Bible in the trade language of English, for English is the primary language for trade to day. That is when I found the AV.

I do not hold the exact teachings of those who call themselves KJV only I am not that extreme however I am staunch about God having preserved his word. Like I have said, the AV has ALL the verses, it defines the English words by its context, the words, terms, phrases and verses cross reference to other parts of the Bible so we can learn greater truths.

I wish you could hear my intonation and see my expressions and body language, for if you could you would see how much I love you and desire you to come to the knowledge of truth. One comes to Christ as a child, if you want to know his word it is the same way. Paul is God's/Jesus way of expanding his teaching for us today. But no worry we will see him soon enough.

Grace and peace be unto you.

CJ

The AV, as you so obediently call it, is not the best English Bible for either Testaments.

The Masoretic is from the tenth century, notoriously corrupt and what the KJV is based off of. It's not, contrary to what you think and don't know, the most accurate or complete translation.

The Catholic Church has the oldest manuscripts and incorporates even DSS books and fragments and when the Septuagint differs from Masoretic the DSS settles the issue.

I bet that Jesus Barabbas is only called Barabbas in the KJV, but the oldest Greek texts say Jesus Barabbas.

So it has omissions. And every Bible, even in Hebrew, has contradictions that any mullet head with Google can find in two seconds.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

It is so clear you do not even know what you are talking about when it comes to scriptures.

Like I said you don't believe them to be true, preserved by God, without corruption and you expect me to see your point of view?

You fail to see the truth and you will always fail to see the truth.

eliminate Paul and you eliminate any chance of salvation by faith in Christ.

Speaking for myself, I will take my "chances."

You know you are a Paulinist when you claim no salvation without PAUL.

Who are you trying to fool? Yourself??

I think you can stop, you're fooled.

You have picked and choose attitude and make yourself god to say what is true and at the same tie place yourself in a place that will not save and you want to lead others into that same trap.

Faith cometh by Hearing the words of God. You have destroyed he words of God, selfishly pick and choose what YOU want to be God's words, and thereby effectively ruin any chance of ever coming to faith because you don't have the entirety of Gods words which must be heard in order to have faith.

You either have more faith than any other before or you are a fool.

Or YOU'RE the fool.

a reply to: SethTsaddik

Your problem is not anything other than you (like Matirx, Malocchi and Ak) do not believe God's word. Where God promises to preserve them to every Generation for ever. If any of you did you would make it top priority to find it (which none of you have done).

Theeby making it completely useless to even discuss the Bible with any of you. Because none of you believe that the Bible is without error, whole, complete, inspired of God and preserved. This unbelief of yours keeps you in the dark and always learning and never coming to the knowledge of the truth.

You make your self god in place of almighty God to determine with your fleshly mind what you believe is God's words and what is not when it comes to the Bible.

To try and converse on any bible verses that pertain to Christ, God, Salvation is futile as we fist must agree on the basics of the Bible. I choose the AV because it has all the verses in English that best represent the broadness of the original Languages, can define every English word by its context and cross references it so we get the whole truth to he word of God.

However wen I use the AV to show a truth you and the rest want to change the preserved words to other words so you can teach something that is not in the context.

After a while it get redundant and futile to even discuss anything of the Bible with you all.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

I don't have a problem, so save your words. I don't come here to talk about unrelated to this thread problems.

I was just sharing facts. I really don't care what you do with them but I will just respond with see my previous comment to you as it contains nothing incorrect and if I am wrong quote it and correct me.

a reply to: SethTsaddik

No you are sharing opinions not facts. Opinions do not facts make unless you are the MSM.

I don't try and refute people opinions it is useless.

The issue is your not believing the word of God so why use it at all?

This point of not believing the word of God has been part of the on going discussion throughout this thread.

So go back and read it all before you comment.

So answer this, "do you believe the Bible is whole, complete, without error, without corruption and preserved?

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Chester, buddy, when it comes to theology everything is opinion outside of the words used in scriptures.

But what I said was that the Masoretic texts are from the tenth century, a recognized historical fact, and that it was corrupt, another fact that I can cite at least one instance of off the top of my head (sons of Israel, Dt. 32).

Those are facts, the older and oldest texts prove it, the Greek and DSS.

So stop using opinion, the word, as a get out of jail free card when you are imprisoned in the world of lack of knowledge, reason and logic. Metaphorically speaking (obv.)

It doesn't work.

a reply to: SethTsaddik

I did not ask anyting concerning theology.

I asked you straight forward if you believe the word of God to be without error, corruption, inspired and preserved?

Your response to claim masoretic text over the preserved word of God proves you don't believe what God has said even in your unverified masoretic copies, for both read the same in Ps 12:6,7.

Your opinions and slight of man do nothing but prove the point you do not believe that the word of God is preserved, whole, complete, with out error and with out corruption. And further more prove that quoting such to debate, argue or discuss is a futile endeavor.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

One does not need to believe any version of the bible to use it in debate...

You're making your own rules and expecting others to follow them

It doesn't work that way chester... I've seen many Atheists debate the bible proficiently... far more eloquently then many christians who believe the book as you do...

Quit with the broken record man...

You base your argument on one verse.... thats not a valid point what so ever

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: SethTsaddik

I did not ask anyting concerning theology.

I asked you straight forward if you believe the word of God to be without error, corruption, inspired and preserved?

Your response to claim masoretic text over the preserved word of God proves you don't believe what God has said even in your unverified masoretic copies, for both read the same in Ps 12:6,7.

Your opinions and slight of man do nothing but prove the point you do not believe that the word of God is preserved, whole, complete, with out error and with out corruption. And further more prove that quoting such to debate, argue or discuss is a futile endeavor.

It's not inerrant, nor is it preserved by God. The Bible causes division and controversy constantly....esp. amongst those holding to its "inerrancy"".....which is nuts. You just can't see that, because you're in the indoctrinated religious box, no matter how much you believe you aren't.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

No one was talking to you. I know where you stand.

However it amazes me you use it at all. So my conclusion is to convert people to your way of thinking.

I see a lot in God's word. Even things I cant explain however God promised to preserve it therefore I know he did. Because he is the God of Truth and therefore he must keep that promise to preserve his words to every generation forever.

Can't you see it?

Or is your god to weak to keep his word?

a reply to: Akragon

It is not about making rules it is about being truthful.

God is truthful and men are liars.

So if one does not have a solid ground upon which to build their Thesis.

If you quote a Bible to prove what you believe to be true then you must believe what you use to be true as well. Or their is no solid basis upon which to build.

Science works that way so why not when it comes to claims of Paul and the words that God gave him?

I believe ALL the word of God true, whole, complete, Inspired and preserved of God. So when I reply I stand on the truth of God's word. Now in order to agree with me you or any one else would either have to agree because they too must agree that they are true as well. If you don't agree with the basis of my replies because you don't believe the the word of God to be true, whole, complete, or preserved then we have a fundamental difference that can never be reconciled.

If we could find a solid basis for our discourse one that allows us to see each others view clearly then we could go further forward with this whole Idea of the OP, "Did Paul Create Christianity". Seeing the fundamental basis for Christianity is the Bible we must go to the Bible to have an honest and fruitful discourse. We would use this basis for any topic we would want to discuss not just Biblical Topics.

Now once I realized where you all stood when it came to the Bible i.e. corrupt, written by men, inspired, false, and unpreserved. Now I have a basis upon which I stand. But you don't agree with it or far any matter that any bible to hold those properties. Seeing that is your basis, then your ideas/thesis/opinions/discourse when using the Bible to support them is on ever changing and unverifiable basis.

If you believe that one verse to be true of the word of God the Holy Bible but not all of it. You can never know that the verse you believe to be true is in fact false. So you or anyone that would want to talk about Bible and you don't believe it to be true, then your basis is always shifting and you can never be sure that your thesis/idea/opinion or discourse is actually true.

It is not a broken record it is called repetition. It is done to drive home a point, one you do not want to believe but your unbelief will not negate the the truth or my faith.