Why is Tubal Cain revered by Masons?

originally posted by: Muffenstuff
I think you are hilarious!

Thank you, I will be appearing here for the next decade.

You are rather sore about something that is a supposed non issue, I respect your right to say whatever you want but keep your dignity for chists sake.

What am I to be sore over? The fact that you like to skirt questions when they make you look foolish? How would that make me sore?

You yourself said that Tubal Cain was mentioned for his accomplishments, if you don't rever the character you at least revere what he is said to have accomplished.

Do we? And you know this from your extensive knowledge of Masonic ritual by being a member?

Comprende amiga?

Todo, muchacita. Entiendo que quieres evitar responder preguntas.

And for calling me skirty you will not receive any further replies.

Orly?

a reply to: Muffenstuff
It's a non-issue, but you keep repeating it hoping it's going to become true.

a reply to: Muffenstuff
Don't misrepresent AM's posts. He's clearly said that it is not revering someone by merely mentioning them.

You have a lot to learn concerning Freemasonry. Stop using conjecture in your arguments.

originally posted by: Muffenstuff
a reply to: Logarock

Yes they did they made Tammuz into Christ if you look for the clues it is in the weeping women that makes the connection, weeping for Tammuz who was born on Dec. 25 the "son" of Nimrod and Nimrod ressurected making a Trinity with Semiramis.

I feel right at home here. I have been obsessed with researching Nimrod for months and months. Just thought I would bring up some interesting info...

Tammuz is the later Babylonian version of Dumuzid. Dumuzid is actually both Nimrod and his illegitimate son who is Nimrod reincarnate. Nimrods death is preserved in Inanna's (Ishtar) descent into the underworld:

A group of "demons" (thugs with clubs) found Inanna. They got a hold of her and in order to free herself from her tormenting captors, she gave Dumuzid (Nimrod) to them so she is set free...

The thugs with clubs chase Dumuzid (Nimrod). 1 tradition goes that Bel'Shamin (Shem?) was Inanna's lover who chased Dumuzid to the city of Harran, where Nimrod/Dumuzid was surrounded and killed.

Meanwhile after Nimrod is murdered Inanna is pregrenant from Bel'Shem who has a baby which is reincarnated Dumuzid. This is preserved in the tradition that Dumuzid rises from the underworld.

I believe Bel'Shems son with Inanna is none other than Asshur listed as the son of Shem in the Bible.

All of this can be confirmed through the king lists and legends.

Dumuzid is both Nimrod and his illegitimate son, Asshur

originally posted by: kef33890

originally posted by: Muffenstuff
a reply to: Logarock

Yes they did they made Tammuz into Christ if you look for the clues it is in the weeping women that makes the connection, weeping for Tammuz who was born on Dec. 25 the "son" of Nimrod and Nimrod ressurected making a Trinity with Semiramis.

I feel right at home here. I have been obsessed with researching Nimrod for months and months. Just thought I would bring up some interesting info...

Tammuz is the later Babylonian version of Dumuzid. Dumuzid is actually both Nimrod and his illegitimate son who is Nimrod reincarnate. Nimrods death is preserved in Inanna's (Ishtar) descent into the underworld:

A group of "demons" (thugs with clubs) found Inanna. They got a hold of her and in order to free herself from her tormenting captors, she gave Dumuzid (Nimrod) to them so she is set free...

The thugs with clubs chase Dumuzid (Nimrod). 1 tradition goes that Bel'Shamin (Shem?) was Inanna's lover who chased Dumuzid to the city of Harran, where Nimrod/Dumuzid was surrounded and killed.

Meanwhile after Nimrod is murdered Inanna is pregrenant from Bel'Shem who has a baby which is reincarnated Dumuzid. This is preserved in the tradition that Dumuzid rises from the underworld.

I believe Bel'Shems son with Inanna is none other than Asshur listed as the son of Shem in the Bible.

All of this can be confirmed through the king lists and legends.

Dumuzid is both Nimrod and his illegitimate son, Asshur

Would you mind venturing over to my thread on how Thomas is called twin because Tammuz is Christ (combined with Messianic Judaism) and telling people this?

I would be very greatful.

Thomas means twin. Didymus means twin. Tammuz means twin born.

Thomas is a play on words of Tammuz and that is the reason he is called Christs twin, because Christ is the piscean Tammuz and borrowed mythology.

It's a new thread in conspiracies in religion.

a reply to: KSigMason

K. Have a good day.

a reply to: kef33890

Also I THINK Asshur is Assyrian related.

a reply to: Muffenstuff

Yeah I will have a look!

Asshur is the accepted founder of the Assyrians. Nimrods execution likely involved Shem as a lead conspirator of a large group of men including Esau and descendants of Japheth (Hayk?)

Shem conceived Asshur with Inanna. Inanna = "Semiramis" who's real name was Kubaba - The woman tavern keeper found as the only female ruler in the Sumerian King List.

Kubaba ruled as regent until Asshur grew and took his throne from her...

In the Assyrian King List Asshur is listed as Ushpia....who built the first temple of Asshur (to himself.

Interestingly enough, we know from the Egyptian legends that Shem constantly fought with Asshur. Horus and Set respectively in Egypt.

originally posted by: kef33890
a reply to: Muffenstuff

Yeah I will have a look!

Asshur is the accepted founder of the Assyrians. Nimrods execution likely involved Shem as a lead conspirator of a large group of men including Esau and descendants of Japheth (Hayk?)

Yes, book of Yasher has Esau and I think it or another has it at Shem's direction, Nimrod's execution.

Shem conceived Asshur with Inanna. Inanna = "Semiramis" who's real name was Kubaba - The woman tavern keeper found as the only female ruler in the Sumerian King List.

I was theorizing she was his daughter and on the Ark, later married Khem and then her son Nimrod. But interesting.

Kubaba ruled as regent until Asshur grew and took his throne from her...

In the Assyrian King List Asshur is listed as Ushpia....who built the first temple of Asshur (to himself.

Interestingly enough, we know from the Egyptian legends that Shem constantly fought with Asshur. Horus and Set respectively in Egypt.

Shem is such an honored name among Hebrews that they call God HaShem, allegedly because his name means name. Nimrod made a HaShem which can be also taken to mean heaven, pronounced (now at least) with a slight alteration.

Thanks for the info.

a reply to: Muffenstuff

I thought about that, too! I don't know if Semiramis slept with her son Asshur, or if Nimrod was her son, too. Either way, it's pretty messed up.

Oh I'm looking for your thread now.

a reply to: Muffenstuff

The book of Enoch reference to Semyaza you allude to seems to be this:

"10.11 And the Lord said to Michael: "Go, inform Sem yaza, and the others with him, who have associated with the women to corrupt themselves with them in all their uncleanness.
10.12 When all their sons kill each other, and when they see the destruction of their loved ones, bind them for seventy generations, under the hills of the earth, until the day of their judgment and of their consummation, until the judgment, which is for all eternity, is accomplished.
10.13 And in those days, they will lead them to the Abyss of Fire; in torment, and in prison they will be shut up for all
eternity.
10.14 And then Semyaza will be burnt, and from then on destroyed with them; together they will be bound until the end of all generations."

This seems to match these Revelation verses.

"And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."
~ Revelation 20:1-3

"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
~ Revelation 20:7-10

I don't see anything in there about being obliterated into the constellation of Orion.

But... if you consider a constellation is held in place by flat planes of glass on the inside of a diamond,

then the start of the 1980 movie, Superman 2, kind of reminds me of that kind of guilty verdict...

www.youtube.com...

And the Superman logo is the shape of a diamond...

a reply to: Muffenstuff

I'm not quite sure what you're referring to here.

Are you referring to the diagram I labeled, Tetra Gramm Atone?

That is just like the flow chart for those 18 numbered points I listed earlier.

a reply to: InachMarbank

Maybe it was 2 Enoch, maybe just someone's interpretation. I will find out.

Two seconds of Google searches says it's Rabbinical tradition. I will find out more.

I wonder if the Mason organized Two Ball Cain golf classic was also NOT out of reverence for Tubal Cain. Two Ball Cane Golf Classic

Honorary 32 or 33° Mason Manly P. Hall also seems to think that Masons should revere Tubal Cain or even emulate, and wrote exactly that in one of his many books.

If he was just an idiot with no clue and wrong, I highly doubt that he would be given the honor.

originally posted by: Muffenstuff
I wonder if the Mason organized Two Ball Cain golf classic was also NOT out of reverence for Tubal Cain. Two Ball Cane Golf Classic

Not getting that it is a play on words?

Honorary 32 or 33° Mason Manly P. Hall also seems to think that Masons should revere Tubal Cain or even emulate, and wrote exactly that in one of his many books.

Provide the quotes.

If he was just an idiot with no clue and wrong, I highly doubt that he would be given the honor.

Hall was not an 'honorary' member of Masonry, he joined almost 30 years after he wrote most of works.

originally posted by: Muffenstuff
Honorary 32 or 33° Mason Manly P. Hall also seems to think that Masons should revere Tubal Cain or even emulate, and wrote exactly that in one of his many books.

Manly P. Hall was a 33°, but what he thinks is merely his opinion.

If he was just an idiot with no clue and wrong, I highly doubt that he would be given the honor.

Hundreds of men each year are invited to receive the 33°. It doesn't give their opinion the weight of law or policy.

Further, from a site responding to the slanderous accusations of a particular website and written by a Mason, after Tubal-Cain's mention by Hall that the Mason should emulate his forefather Tubal-Cain (written in 1923, or published in) while the Mason refutes several erroneous accusations by the anti Mason.

He doesn't, however, refute the fact that Hall said Tubal-Cain should be emulated (paraphrasing, I can't remember the exact words but emulate will do and forefather is a quote).

He says:

" Tubal-Cain changes the chaotic and painful into something that focuses the uncontrolled power into something good and productive."

Certainly someone who makes such changes is to be admired and revered, clearly this Mason is in admiration of Tubal-Cain for this change and makes no ma ha bones about it.

Mason counters false accusations of anti Mason

originally posted by: Muffenstuff


Further, from a site responding to the slanderous accusations of a particular website and written by a Mason, after Tubal-Cain's mention by Hall that the Mason should emulate his forefather Tubal-Cain (written in 1923, or published in) while the Mason refutes several erroneous accusations by the anti Mason.

I see. So the guy writes something 30 years before he becomes a Mason which is strictly his opinion from a non-Masons perspective and you take it as gospel.

Good work.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I think it is pretty obvious that I get the play on words and how you could think I didn't is rather baffling.

Two Ball Cane classic is a play on words of Tubal-Cain, super obvious really.

The question remains though, was it out of admiration for Tubal-Cain that the golf classic was named after him?

Logic would say you don't name an event affiliated with your fraternity after someone you have no reverence for. You name it after someone you do.

Of course I doubt logic is of any concern to you in your pursuit to "prove" that Masons don't revere the Vulcan (lol) Tubal-Cain.

I am more perplexed why you bother denying it at all. I would not hold it against you if you did (acknowledge it) and don't think it is controversial to (revere Tubal), I was just curious why.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Muffenstuff


Further, from a site responding to the slanderous accusations of a particular website and written by a Mason, after Tubal-Cain's mention by Hall that the Mason should emulate his forefather Tubal-Cain (written in 1923, or published in) while the Mason refutes several erroneous accusations by the anti Mason.

I see. So the guy writes something 30 years before he becomes a Mason which is strictly his opinion from a non-Masons perspective and you take it as gospel.

Good work.

Gospel? I was pointing out the fact that he said it, that he was later given the honorary degree and that if he was known to write untrue things about Masonry that this "honor" would not have been given him.

So at least SOME Masons must agree with his statement about Tubal-Cain. I am told telling falsehoods about Masonry are not considered virtuous so he must have been telling the truth.

If his statement was incorrect I doubt the Mason refuting the anti Mason would have just let that "opinion" of Hall's go un addressed.

What he responded with (the Mason) gives a very complimentary account of the changes Tubal made that if true are definitely something to revere, as they are good changes.

He doesn't at all state anything that is remotely negative about Tubal and I can logically deduce that this particular Mason indeed has reverence or admiration for Tubal-Cain.

So saying Masons don't revere Tubal-Cain seems to be an opinion of you who are saying it, not the opinion of all Masons.

Maybe he is just more informed than you guys. You'll get there!

originally posted by: Muffenstuff
The question remains though, was it out of admiration for Tubal-Cain that the golf classic was named after him?

Call them and ask them.

Logic would say you don't name an event affiliated with your fraternity after someone you have no reverence for.

Or, it could just be an inside joke which goes over the non-Mason's head.

I am more perplexed why you bother denying it at all. I would not hold it against you if you did (acknowledge it) and don't think it is controversial to (revere Tubal), I was just curious why.

Because it is inaccurate. Kind of simple really. Surprised it keeps going over your head with several Masons on this thread telling you that it is incorrect.