Autogynephilia: The Elephant in the Transgender Bathroom

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: seentoomuch
a reply to: Gryphon66

Many transgenders though looking and dressing as their identified sex are still attracted to the opposite sex. Maybe 3 weeks ago I read that Bruce Jenner is still attracted to women? If so, he has no business being in a women's bathroom. Right?

STM

I'm a man attracted to men ... are you saying I shouldn't go in the Men's bathroom? Or is that only if I'm wearing a dress?

EDIT: PS: I've never worn a dress.

I'm on team "Women Only", the guys need to step up for their own situation. Personally, I think a third bathroom for whackos is in order.

STM

a reply to: Gryphon66

It didn't work.

Okay. Duly noted.

And with that I'm done for the night and off to the land of zzzzz's.

originally posted by: seentoomuch
a reply to: Domo1

I'm just hoping that we don't add to it. Too many other doors will be opened imho.

STM

Think of it this way. I've been slightly flippant toward you and that is an unfair approach, as you seem genuinely concerned.

In the world, as we speak, there are thousands of sexual predators.

Some of those are biologically male (most of them, statistically).

Some of those are Trans* folks of one type or another. (almost NONE of them, statistically)

To repeat: There are virtually no reported cases of Trans* females (Male to Female) assaulting women or girls anywhere, least of all in the bathroom.

NOW, let us not forget that there are thousands of predators out there, because that IS a fact, and that IS a real safety concern.

There are many things we could do (and probably should do) to make public restrooms more safe.

Private facilities with individual doors, door locks, etc.

However, laws that invade individual American's privacy, whether Trans*, Straight, Gay, Bi, Try or what have you ... are not the answer.

We do not need the government in our pants.

originally posted by: seentoomuch

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: seentoomuch
a reply to: Gryphon66

Many transgenders though looking and dressing as their identified sex are still attracted to the opposite sex. Maybe 3 weeks ago I read that Bruce Jenner is still attracted to women? If so, he has no business being in a women's bathroom. Right?

STM

I'm a man attracted to men ... are you saying I shouldn't go in the Men's bathroom? Or is that only if I'm wearing a dress?

EDIT: PS: I've never worn a dress.

I'm on team "Women Only", the guys need to step up for their own situation. Personally, I think a third bathroom for whackos is in order.

STM

I see I gave too much credit.

I'll leave you with this: perhaps the "whackos" aren't who you think they are.

Best.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I agree with the separate facilities though I also understand that many businesses can not afford them or do not have the space for them. What now?

And trust me, you would've been freaked out seeing the "it" I did. I was really proud of myself for not going at him when he was intimidating me big time for no reason. There is an unwritten etiquette for the women's room and this creep broke them big time.

STM

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Boadicea

BULLFECES.

You're betraying the ignorance of others and your own prejudice by confusing paraphilias for gender identities and sexual orientations.

You haven't proven anything ...

Here's some more officious-sounding terms for you ... see what kind of confusion you can tie these into in future efforts:

Coprophilia
Arousal to feces

Stygiophilia
Arousal to the thought of hellfire and damnation

and the one that seems most appropriate to your attempt here ...

Sadism
Arousal to causing physical and psychological pain

Do you need a link to the definition of paraphilia?

Because this is nothing more than a slight variation on the pedophilia/necrophilia/zoophilia comparisons so often made.

If you will allow me a personal note ...

You should be ashamed of yourself. I know you aren't, but you should be, in my opinion. Here's why.

You took your considerable skill at research and as a writer and you directed it at trying to justify treating millions of Americans as second-class citizens and worse, as dangerous criminals ... when they aren't and YOU KNOW THIS.

You've added fuel to the fires of bigotry. You aren't "enlightening" anyone ... you're confirming irrational fears.

Thanks for allowing me to vent.

And you've mastered low expectation bogotry, congrats.

The term autogynephiliia was 1st explained to me by a woman who was a born a man....she started to transition in childhood and had the full surgery in her 20's. She has since lived her life as a woman in every way , you could never tell by looking at her and she said most people she associates with don't know. She lives a quiet life and does not associate herself with the LGBT community. She was kind enough to answer some questions I had and try and clear up some confusion I've had since being very hurt and deceived by what I would call a AGP.

I don't want to misrepresent her opinions and I realize that I took away my own interpretation based on my own experiences and observations but this was an important distinction for me to understand. This IS a "hot potato" issue that is hotly debated in the TGBT community , so it's not really accurate to say this is only confusing to ignorant "homo-phobes", it's a complicated subject and the OP does a very good job exploring the subject. I would hope all reasonable people could agree on that much...

a reply to: Wardaddy454

I'd be glad to hear any expansion on your thoughts; I can receive correction when I'm wrong.

Who or what am I being bigoted toward?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: seentoomuch
a reply to: Domo1

I'm just hoping that we don't add to it. Too many other doors will be opened imho.

STM

Think of it this way. I've been slightly flippant toward you and that is an unfair approach, as you seem genuinely concerned.

In the world, as we speak, there are thousands of sexual predators.

Some of those are biologically male (most of them, statistically).

Some of those are Trans* folks of one type or another. (almost NONE of them, statistically)

To repeat: There are virtually no reported cases of Trans* females (Male to Female) assaulting women or girls anywhere, least of all in the bathroom.

NOW, let us not forget that there are thousands of predators out there, because that IS a fact, and that IS a real safety concern.

There are many things we could do (and probably should do) to make public restrooms more safe.

Private facilities with individual doors, door locks, etc.

However, laws that invade individual American's privacy, whether Trans*, Straight, Gay, Bi, Try or what have you ... are not the answer.

We do not need the government in our pants.

I'm glad you touched on this. With regards to Target's policy, What stops a crossdressing predator from claiming "transitioning" now when caught?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Wardaddy454

I'd be glad to hear any expansion on your thoughts; I can receive correction when I'm wrong.

Who or what am I being bigoted toward?

I just told you. Either you're lazy or enjoy feigning ignorance.

a reply to: MountainLaurel

Exploring confusion over the differences between gender identity, sexual orientation and paraphilias is a necessary and needed conversation that we'll be having for some time to come.

Stating that all Trans* folks are merely cross-dressing sexual predators is another matter entirely.

Taking unpleasant events from our own lives and generalizing them to limit the rights of millions of Americans is yet another matter.

I will hope that all reasonable people can agree on that much.

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Wardaddy454

I'd be glad to hear any expansion on your thoughts; I can receive correction when I'm wrong.

Who or what am I being bigoted toward?

I just told you. Either you're lazy or enjoy feigning ignorance.

Well, that's not what you said, and I'm not the topic here.

Neither is what you think of me, or what I think of you.

Next?

a reply to: Wardaddy454

What keeps any predator from making any excuse when caught?

Making laws that restrict the rights of any American is not the answer to sexual predation in public places.

Stringing "what ifs" together according to a political agenda isn't the answer, either.

Let's do something to make these publc spaces more safe for EVERYONE regardless of sex, gender, sexual orientation, or gender identity.

I'm all for that. I'm not for more government regulation of our private parts.

The reality is that there are some people out there who are inclined to do bad things to others and most who are not. Going out in a public is a risk for anybody — unless you have your own entourage of security staff everywhere you go. Women and children are more at risk than men because adult men are generally physically stronger and more aggressive than them.

Keeping the above in mind, it's difficult not to see your thread as an attempt to demonise transgendered individuals as a whole, ignoring that there are other variables that influence crimes taking place.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Wardaddy454

I'd be glad to hear any expansion on your thoughts; I can receive correction when I'm wrong.

Who or what am I being bigoted toward?

I just told you. Either you're lazy or enjoy feigning ignorance.

Well, that's not what you said, and I'm not the topic here.

Neither is what you think of me, or what I think of you.

Next?

I just told you what kind of bigot you are, not my fault if you can't google search its meaning, though its pretty self explanitory. And as far as you being the topic, well when you go on ad hominem attacks I think thats discussion worthy.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: seentoomuch
a reply to: Domo1

I'm just hoping that we don't add to it. Too many other doors will be opened imho.

STM

To repeat: There are virtually no reported cases of Trans* females (Male to Female) assaulting women or girls anywhere, least of all in the bathroom.

NOW, let us not forget that there are thousands of predators out there, because that IS a fact, and that IS a real safety concern.

And now they, sexual predators not transgenders, can access the women's bathroom with a state sanctioned disguise.

If the government forced a decree that circus clowns can go into any bathroom, the same sexual predators who would disguise themselves as transgender will pretend to be circus clowns to get access to victims. Women and children will have to avoid public bathrooms thanks to liberal intervention, their rights duly trampled.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Wardaddy454

What keeps any predator from making any excuse when caught?

Making laws that restrict the rights of any American is not the answer to sexual predation in public places.

Stringing "what ifs" together according to a political agenda isn't the answer, either.

Let's do something to make these publc spaces more safe for EVERYONE regardless of sex, gender, sexual orientation, or gender identity.

I'm all for that. I'm not for more government regulation of our private parts.

No where can ever be safer than it is now, because sometimes creating safety can create more danger.
And you're right, laws that restrict any American are wrong but which law is saying "you can't use the bathroom here"?

a reply to: TinfoilTP

You've got it backwards: the issue is that some States want to regulate whose genitals go where.

Trans* folks just want to use the bathrooms that agree with their gender, just like we all do.

This has been happening for years. No one ever knew the difference (and shouldn't ... other people's genitals are not our business.)

I'm not interested in wild parentheticals that have nothing to do with the topic.

No one's rights are being trampled. The point of public restrooms are to relieve excretions.

Sexual predators are not going to be stopped by trying to police the genitals of Trans* citizens.

Let's do something to make bathrooms more safe for everyone! If it's really about safety ... you're on board with that, right?

a reply to: Wardaddy454

Bathroom Bills - Wikipedia

Special note on North Carolina.

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Wardaddy454

I'd be glad to hear any expansion on your thoughts; I can receive correction when I'm wrong.

Who or what am I being bigoted toward?

I just told you. Either you're lazy or enjoy feigning ignorance.

Well, that's not what you said, and I'm not the topic here.

Neither is what you think of me, or what I think of you.

Next?

I just told you what kind of bigot you are, not my fault if you can't google search its meaning, though its pretty self explanitory. And as far as you being the topic, well when you go on ad hominem attacks I think thats discussion worthy.

No, you didn't "tell me what kind of bigot I am" ... people are bigoted TOWARD something.

I haven't gone on any ad hominem attacks (that's what you're doing.)

I stated a series of very serious critiques of the OP's argument, and, having had varying correspondence with OP in the past, I stated my personal feeling about the harmful nature of the argument, and why it was harmful.

Ad hominem is trying to invalidate an argument by making personal comments about the claimant.

Again, that's what you're doing, not me.