Autogynephilia: The Elephant in the Transgender Bathroom

originally posted by: imsoconfused
The ones that just do it for money and try to trick people are what I have a big problem with.

A morning walk to the beach says it all.

Says it all? What does it say?
That is likely Thailand a country known for its sex trade and poverty and transgenders.
If you are "tricked" in Thailand, then you must have been messing with sex workers for one, two you must have never come out from under a rock to know trans people are a big part of the culture, especially in the tourist areas.

Go to Bangkok and the Temples and you don't see much of this compared to Pattaya.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
Pity so much effort in threads isn't put into damning those other men in frocks that prey on children, priests and ministers oh and the former house speaker, no frock but y'all get my drift.....

No frocks, but here's this:

List of American federal politicians convicted of crimes

• Dennis Hastert (R-IL) Speaker of the United States House of Representatives pleaded guilty in court for illegally structuring bank transactions related to payment of $3.5 million to quash allegations of sexual misconduct with a student when he was a high school teacher and coach decades ago.[3] (2016)
  
• Wade Sanders (D), Deputy Assistant United States Secretary of the Navy, for Reserve Affairs, was sentenced to 37 months in prison on one charge of possession of child pornography. (2009)
  
• Mel Reynolds (D-IL) was convicted on 12 counts of sexual assault, obstruction of justice and solicitation of child pornography.

The Democrat Sexual Misconduct List (Alphabetical Order by Last Name) brought to you by Conservative 21.ORG:

• Gerald Ackerman (D-MI) May - In May 2000, convicted on 10 felony counts of criminal sexual conduct; sentenced to 18 to 38 years imprisonment, also 1 year for indecent exposure to a minor.
  
• Brock Adams (D-WA) - Arrested for drugging, assault, and rape of a woman.
  
• Gary Becker (D-WI) - Arrested for soliciting sex of a minor (14 years old).

Long list of Republican sex offenders....

• Republican judge Mark Pazuhanich pleaded no contest to fondling a 10-year old girl and was sentenced to 10 years probation.
  
• Republican Mayor Philip Giordano is serving a 37-year sentence in federal prison for sexually abusing 8- and 10-year old girls.
  
• Republican racist pedophile and United States Senator Strom Thurmond had sex with a 15-year old black girl which produced a child.
  

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Freija

I assume she is referring to my reference to crossdressing as a primary fetish by sex offenders. I did not claim any personal experience or knowledge -- so not "my" mistake. I linked my sources, which was a blog, which linked their source:

Journal of the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law

Why didn't you quote the epigraph for this article you're so proud of ...

The psychiatric literature suggests that paraphiliacs can be expected to participate in only one type of deviant sexual behavior. Using self-reports gathered with assured confidentiality from 561 nonincarcerated paraphiliacs, we discovered that most paraphiliacs have had significant experience with as many as ten different types of deviant sexual behavior without regard, in many cases, to gender, age, and familial relationship of the victim.

Did you note that this "data" is extracted from self-reported narratives elicited from men in jail for violent crimes?

Did you note that this article is from 1988 when the term "deviant" was still considered a valid pathological term?

Did you note that the study was made solely on people IN PRISON for violent crimes?

Here's another quote from this "source" ...

Numerous problems arose during the clinical interviews. First, it was sometimes difficult for subjects to describe the frequency of their involvement with paraphilias that had developed much earlier in their lives. To assist the subjects with the chronology of their deviant arousal and to improve the validity of their reports, interviewers attempted to associate important events in the subjects' lives with the onset and frequency of their paraphilias.

Yes, recovering "repressed memories" was quite popular back in 1988 ... utterly and completely discredited as a psychological technique now.

And not surprisingly, on page 160 this "report" categorizes homosexuality and "transexualism" right alongside pedophilia, corprophila, rape, etc. etc.

Yet, there is still no claim made that transvestism (as your focal fetish is noted in this "report") is the "number one paraphilia" among violent criminals.

Yep, you should really be proud of this source, Boadicea.

Top notch.

a reply to: Gryphon66

You should be ashamed of yourself. I know you aren't, but you should be, in my opinion.

No, I'm not at all ashamed of myself. I'm the messenger, not the source. Even if someone could prove every single word and thought wrong, I would be satisfied knowing that I helped bring truth to light -- even if I started out on the wrong side.

Here's why.

You took your considerable skill at research and as a writer...

Thank you. Sincerely.

... and you directed it at trying to justify treating millions of Americans as second-class citizens and worse, as dangerous criminals ... when they aren't and YOU KNOW THIS.

No. I directed it at trying to protect many women and children from known -- and unknown -- sexual predators -- possibly violent... AND YOU KNOW THIS.

originally posted by: Bluesma
(plus, with all the worry about little girls, I noticed there is never a concern about all the little boys who continue to be in danger when they go into mens restrooms.)

That is and always has been a concern for every mother of little boys. I have mentioned it before, and it's been mentioned in this thread by others.

For me, the saving grace and only consolation was that I knew there were also good men going in and out of the bathroom who could and would keep the creeps in line. And, of course, I was standing right outside the door watching, and my son knew if he wasn't out in three minutes that I'd be coming in.

originally posted by: Boadicea

No. I directed it at trying to protect many women and children from known -- and unknown -- sexual predators -- possibly violent... AND YOU KNOW THIS.

Trans* folk are not sexual predators, any more than gay folk are, or straight folk or any other demographic you may want to focus on (well, except maybe Roman Catholic Priests, Fundamentalist Pastors and Republican Politicians).

You've taken disparate pieces of unrelated information and strung it all together drawing a ridiculous parallel between men who get sexually excited wearing women's clothes ... and all Trans* folks which includes, you would apparently be amazed to discover, Female to Male Trans* folk as well.

Not to mention, an entire spectrum of folks who don't identify with either end of the gender spectrum, or even accept that there is such a thing as a gender spectrum ... those non-binary folks you were so excited to scream "AHA!" about and point your finger to as if you'd made an original discovery.

Here is the only statistic that would give any credence to your misplaced effort: historically, how many cross-dressed men committed violent crimes in public restrooms?

That would be actual data to "prove your point" ...

Your posted "wall of text" drawing everything you don't like or fear together to suggest that Trans* folks having equal rights to use the appropriate restroom is related somehow to a sexual fetish and violent sexual predation is ludicrous if not libelous.

I wonder if you'd be willing to publish this screed somewhere under your own real legal name.

originally posted by: Domo1

Had a weird experience a couple of years ago.

Austin, Texas, seafood restaurant:

If you put a wig down to the shoulders and a women's business suit with skirt on then the guy in the photo would be a perfect match to who I had the misfortune of meeting in the ladies room.

Just washing my hands, minding my own business, putting on a bit of lipstick and the whole time this whacko was looking over at me from the other sink, staring at me as if "he" was offended by my actions. It was clear that "he/she" was trying for a reaction so I just ignored the whacko. It was very intimidating to the extreme.

I left the bathroom and saw a mother and young daughter (4 or 5 years old) heading towards the bathroom and I warned the mother. She took her daughter back to their table.

There probably are nice transgenders that would blend in but not the ones with five o'clock shadow and off their medication,

STM

a reply to: Gryphon66

Seriously? Again? Really???

Did you note that this "data" is extracted from self-reported narratives elicited from men in jail for violent crimes?

I believe I used the terms "self-identified" and "convicted sex offenders." Nit pick and complain all you want. It is what it is and you know this.

This just stupid. I'm not playing these games. As I noted, research data is limited, and is largely driven by and dependent on political agendas. If you have better data, please share -- compare and contrast to your heart's content!

a reply to: seentoomuch

Personal anecdotes are really something, aren't they? While we're sharing ...

When I was 15, our youth pastor, (a strapping young fellow of 24) and I had a rousing time for about two months at various retreats and special Bible study sessions.

He then got a job in another state at another church as a full time pastor, and he has been so employed, as far as I know for the last 35 years.

Does the fact that I was a "willing" participant change the fact that this pedophile probably went on to assault kids who weren't?

Does the fact that this happened in church mean that all youth pastors are suspect?

I don't think so, but that's the same logic being employed here.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Why would you of all people having experienced the worst open the door for more abuse?

STM

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Gryphon66

Seriously? Again? Really???

Did you note that this "data" is extracted from self-reported narratives elicited from men in jail for violent crimes?

I believe I used the terms "self-identified" and "convicted sex offenders." Nit pick and complain all you want. It is what it is and you know this.

This just stupid. I'm not playing these games. As I noted, research data is limited, and is largely driven by and dependent on political agendas. If you have better data, please share -- compare and contrast to your heart's content!

I know that you're using garbage "research" from almost 30 years ago to make a ridiculous point ... how many of your "sources" need to be shown as either fallacious, out of date, dishonest or intentionally misrepresentative before you cop to the fact that you're grasping at straws to prove an irrational point???

There are no sources that state that cross-dressers offer anymore threat to anyone in bathrooms than they already do.

There is CERTAINLY no connection between rejecting laws that want to invade the privacy of American citizens by performing genital checks at the doorway of a bathroom.

This "discovery" of yours has been well-documented as a pastiche of garbage logic and worthless sources.

originally posted by: seentoomuch
a reply to: Gryphon66

Why would you of all people, having experienced the worst open the door for more abuse?

STM

Because there is no door being opened for abuse by letting folks use the appropriate restroom.

Perhaps, using your logic and the logic employed here, we should close the church doors ... but I wouldn't say that.

It's ridiculous to imply that because some pastors are pedophiles that they all are.

It's ridiculous to imply that because some cross-dressers are violent predators that all Trans* folks are.

In short, it's ridiculous.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Your posted "wall of text" drawing everything you don't like or fear together to suggest that Trans* folks having equal rights to use the appropriate restroom is related somehow to a sexual fetish and violent sexual predation is ludicrous if not libelous.

My "wall of text" was the result of the many half-truths, mis-truths, and outright lies that have been told in an effort to hide the ugly truth about many transgender/transsexual men transitioning to female and to justify forcing men -- including these men -- into women's constitutionally protected private spaces.

Nothing appropriate about that.

As far as publishing under my real name, I would be far more concerned about retaliation and violence upon my person than legal action for libel.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Many transgenders though looking and dressing as their identified sex are still attracted to the opposite sex. Maybe 3 weeks ago I read that Bruce Jenner is still attracted to women? If so, he has no business being in a women's bathroom. Right?

STM

Everybody has gone all pussified lately. If yall are so scared then stay home. Sh*t can happen anywhere, to anyone, from anyone.

I carry a gun and a b.s. detector. I'm good to go.

a reply to: seentoomuch

But then where would the lesbians go, or the bisexuals. The whole thing is a mess.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Gryphon66

Your posted "wall of text" drawing everything you don't like or fear together to suggest that Trans* folks having equal rights to use the appropriate restroom is related somehow to a sexual fetish and violent sexual predation is ludicrous if not libelous.

My "wall of text" was the result of the many half-truths, mis-truths, and outright lies that have been told in an effort to hide the ugly truth about many transgender/transsexual men transitioning to female and to justify forcing men -- including these men -- into women's constitutionally protected private spaces.

Nothing appropriate about that.

As far as publishing under my real name, I would be far more concerned about retaliation and violence upon my person than legal action for libel.

But you didn't prove ANYTHING about Trans* folk, MTF, FTM, non-binary, or any other scalar measure.

You've taken a paraphilia and tried to equate that to gender identity ... and that's a blatant lie, while we're talking about lies.

You're hysterically waving your arms at all these non-specific comments that you're claiming to be countering ... when in fact, the counter-claims can be very simply stated;

Trans* folks (American citizens with differing gender identities) are not all pathological, are not all violent offenders, are not "deviants" and are accorded the same "constitutionally protected spaces" as any other American citizen.

The cases of Trans* folks assaulting anyone in a restroom are statistically non-existent. For that matter, the number of transvestites doing so are basically the same.

There are far more important concerns in insuring the safety of women, children, and all people than trying to imply that Trans* folks are dangerous or at least, are any more dangerous than any other American citizen (and NOT as dangerous as other demographics we could mention.)

You're desperately trying to equate your own pet theory with actual crime statistics and medical facts.

It didn't work.

originally posted by: seentoomuch
a reply to: Gryphon66

Many transgenders though looking and dressing as their identified sex are still attracted to the opposite sex. Maybe 3 weeks ago I read that Bruce Jenner is still attracted to women? If so, he has no business being in a women's bathroom. Right?

STM

I'm a man attracted to men ... are you saying I shouldn't go in the Men's bathroom? Or is that only if I'm wearing a dress?

EDIT: PS: I've never worn a dress.

a reply to: Domo1

I'm just hoping that we don't add to it. Too many other doors will be opened imho.

STM

originally posted by: Domo1
a reply to: seentoomuch

But then where would the lesbians go, or the bisexuals. The whole thing is a mess.

It is a mess. I think unisex/gender neutral bathrooms as an additional option is the way to go. Gender neutral bathrooms would benefit many folks in so many ways. Mommies with little boys or daddies with little girls. Or one mommy or daddy with little boys AND little girls. Or an elderly mother with her caregiver son.

There are options that give everyone what they need without violating anyone's rights.