Autogynephilia: The Elephant in the Transgender Bathroom

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Pity so much effort in threads isn't put into damning those other men in frocks that prey on children, priests and ministers oh and the former house speaker, no frock but y'all get my drift.....

Not even half as much energy is spent on transgender as the pro trans crowd put in to demonizing the rich,gun owners,bankers,ceos,Monsanto, goldman sachs, and my PERSONAL favorite GMO as an 'improper' use of science.

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix
a reply to: neo96

They are fake after all.

And men will still ogle them.

Not this one.

I don't like them fake.

Hell I don't believe in cosmetic surgery in general.

People ought to be happy with the way they are.

How appropriate for this thread and relevant to the topic ... a member's personal breast preferences!

Appropriate for a thread which should be subtitled Much Ado About Fetishes!

originally posted by: Gryphon66
How appropriate for this thread and relevant to the topic ... a member's personal breast preferences!

Appropriate for a thread which should be subtitled Much Ado About Fetishes!

I didn't bring them up.

And men will still ogle them.

And I am one of those.

originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: Gryphon66
How appropriate for this thread and relevant to the topic ... a member's personal breast preferences!

Appropriate for a thread which should be subtitled Much Ado About Fetishes!

I didn't bring them up.

And men will still ogle them.

And I am one of those.

No, you didn't Neo, but you did see fit to let us all in on your personal kink ...

And that's what this thread is all about ... trying to pretend that sexual objectification is the same as gender identity (and by extension, sexual orientation).

You did the thread a service! Great example of the topic!

a reply to: Boadicea

Probably the best written thread I've read on the matter. This would deserve a sticky in another type of forum/website. I would pay you hourly to blog for me if you came up with this type of data. Jesus.

a reply to: Gryphon66

No, you didn't Neo, but you did see fit to let us all in on your personal kink ...

Thought I would follow the transgenders lead on that.

Throwing their personal preferences out for the entire country to see.

Then suddenly you have a problem with that.

Aw shucks.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Gryphon66

No, you didn't Neo, but you did see fit to let us all in on your personal kink ...

Thought I would follow the transgenders lead on that.

Throwing their personal preferences out for the entire country to see.

Then suddenly you have a problem with that.

Aw shucks.

Awesome dude.

You're following in the footsteps of some very brave Americans (although far, far behind them), standing up for their personal rights and the equality of others.

You should be very proud! You should start a fetish group of your own ... you can be an autolactalphiliac!

a reply to: Sublimecraft

What are the indicators separating an autogynephilic person from a transgender person such one can tell the difference between someone dressing for sexual gratification versus dressing for gender identification?

Hmmm... there is no definitive answer. Generally speaking, if I understand the premise correctly, only men can be autogynephiles; and among men transgenders there are only two kinds: strict homosexuals (who are only attracted to men before and after transition to female) and autogynephiles (heterosexuals who may also identify as bisexual or asexual, before/during/after transition -- if they transition -- depending on related fetishes and the progression of the autogynephilia).

This is getting really confusing -

It sure is!!!

- I mean, where do autogynephilics sit in the wider transgender community? Are they seen as heathens or copycats or are they accepted as being different but the same (or the same but different?)

Again, that's not easy to answer. I believe there has been significant support within the greater LGBT community for the "T" branch and still is; but I believe much of that support has been eroded -- and continues to be -- by a growing segment of these autogynephiles... a very loud, demanding, obnoxious, bullying segment who have stalked, bullied and threatened others. For example, lesbians for not being sexually attracted to them (the "Cotton Ceiling"), and those feminists who distinguish between the issues of women and trans "women" ("TERFs").

I don't believe these bullies represent the majority of transgenders nor transsexuals, not even the majority of autogynephiles. I believe these are the worst of the worst. My fear, however, given the progressive of the autogynephilic disorder, is that those who are in the early stages will eventually progress to the worst stages, as represented above. Hormonal treatment may be part of the answer, perhaps even hormone blockers (testosterone in particular). There is still much to study. But that vital research won't take place if we refuse to acknowledge the problem.

Is identifying and dressing as the opposite sex primarily for the purpose of sexual gratification reason enough to enter into already established gender segregated facilities of their choosing or should they have to use the bathroom as per their gender assigned at birth?

I believe the answer is to introduce gender neutral bathrooms in addition to sex designated bathrooms -- which would actually benefit many people for many reasons. There is no good reason to force men into women's and girl's private spaces. Nor any need to. So what is the real purpose here???

a reply to: Gryphon66

Wait they have the 'right' to make up a complete and new 'sex' and force me to pay for a new bathroom when theres already two available that NO ONE has had a problem with for over 100 years.

I am indeed proud.

For not buying the bullsnip being forced fed to the American public when there are more pressing concerns facing ALL Americans.

You're following in the footsteps of some very brave Americans, standing up for their personal rights and the equality of others

Except when it comes to these folks.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Then hatred,bigotry,intolerance is right as rain.

a reply to: neo96

No one made up a new sex.

I'm rethinking the name of your new, special group ... I may have been focusing on the wrong aspects of breast fetishism ...

Automamaphiliac ... (no, that doesn't mean you love your mother ... ).

You should get t-shirts made.

originally posted by: neo96

Except when it comes to these folks.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Then hatred,bigotry,intolerance is right as rain.

Awesome, you link to your own posts in this very thread!

Very circuitous of you.

There seems to be plenty of hatred, bigotry and intolerance to go around here, Neo.

That point I'll give you.

a reply to: Gryphon66

No one made up a new sex.

That is exactly what going under the knife is.

To 'make' people something they are not nor will they ever be.

Since your the walking wiki on all things 'transgender'.

Can they change a persons DNA ?

I'm rethinking the name of your new, special group ... I may have been focusing on the wrong aspects of breast fetishism ..

Nice personal jab,

I could reciprocate, why waste the thread space.

a reply to: Freija

FWIW, Kay Brown (On the Science of Changing Sex) happens to be a friend of mine and I alerted her to this post to see if she has anything to add. I respect the amount of work she's put in to defending Blanchard's theories but I do want to point out she is absolutely reviled by the trans communities and hated with a passion. You've painted a clearly one-sided picture and presented information that most consider nothing but lies and make-believe.

I linked to two of Kay Brown's pages, and quoted her extensively. We would be very lucky if she were to share any further information and insight.

Folks, do your own research.

By all means. And now that they know autogynephilia is a thing, and a danger to women and girls in secluded and vulnerable places like sex-designated bathrooms, they can. And I've provided links to get them started according to their interests and inclinations.

a reply to: neo96

Personal jab?

You were the one talking about your preferences for breasts!

I was just following the trends of the thread and providing you a fancy Latin-esque name for it.

Make yourself sound all officious and scientifical.

There are all sorts of variation in human DNA Neo ... what's your point?

Thousands of medical and psychiatric professionals, researchers, etc. have no problem understanding gender identities.

I'm sorry that you seem to be so badly confused on the issue.

a reply to: neo96

It's not really all that hard to demonize Monsanto and Bankers. Just sayin'

a reply to: Boadicea

BULLFECES.

You're betraying the ignorance of others and your own prejudice by confusing paraphilias for gender identities and sexual orientations.

You haven't proven anything ...

Here's some more officious-sounding terms for you ... see what kind of confusion you can tie these into in future efforts:

Coprophilia
Arousal to feces

Stygiophilia
Arousal to the thought of hellfire and damnation

and the one that seems most appropriate to your attempt here ...

Sadism
Arousal to causing physical and psychological pain

Do you need a link to the definition of paraphilia?

Because this is nothing more than a slight variation on the pedophilia/necrophilia/zoophilia comparisons so often made.

If you will allow me a personal note ...

You should be ashamed of yourself. I know you aren't, but you should be, in my opinion. Here's why.

You took your considerable skill at research and as a writer and you directed it at trying to justify treating millions of Americans as second-class citizens and worse, as dangerous criminals ... when they aren't and YOU KNOW THIS.

You've added fuel to the fires of bigotry. You aren't "enlightening" anyone ... you're confirming irrational fears.

Thanks for allowing me to vent.

a reply to: Freija

Thank you for posting her response.

I've noted that only three views have come in from that screed. The screed is *almost* correct. It makes only one serious misstament in that it says that AGP progresses to violence. It does NOT... it progresses to gender dysphoria and if not treated it progresses to DEPRESSION.

I'm not sure just what "says that AGP progresses to violence" is referring to. Violence is associated with autogynephilia. Perhaps she is saying that AGP does not cause autogynephilia, or that not all autogynephiliacs are violent, or some other nuance. But that violence is associated with autogynephilia -- to one extent or another, at one time or another, in many but not all -- is well established.

Another mistake is that she claims that sex offenders report high levels of AGP... not so. There is NO correlation between sex offenders and AGP... since there are only two paraphilia clusters that typically cause one to offend... and those are pedophilia and courtship disorders.

I assume she is referring to my reference to crossdressing as a primary fetish by sex offenders. I did not claim any personal experience or knowledge -- so not "my" mistake. I linked my sources, which was a blog, which linked their source:

Journal of the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law

In my FAQ (which I noted that Boadicia did NOT link to... surprise, surprise...

Um -- surprise! surprise!!! -- yeah, I did: Link to "FAQs"

I specifically said that there are no overlaps between these issues...

Boadicia tries a bit of slight of hand suggesting that AGP, which DOES correlate with masochism leads to a higher likelyhood of violence from sadism... not so. AGPs are nearly always the submissive in MOCK masochistic fantasy, often "forced feminization", not a true sexual sadist.

Um... not a "true" sexual sadist? Whose sleight of hand? I may not have been as technical or specific as I could have been, but I'm not using weasel words to minimize the potential for violence.

Finally, she fails to note that in spite of the right wing, no epidemic of tranfolk, AGP or HSTS, attacking women or girls in bathrooms has been occurring.

No "epidemic"? More weasel words. How many women and children have to be hurt before it's a problem for her. One is too many for me.... and for those hurt. I'm not waiting for an "epidemic" of violence to result before calling foul.

At least she acknowledges that the two types are quite distinct and separate.

Well, yeah, that was the whole point! Someone had to make the distinction -- not all transgenders are meek and mild men creatures who just want to be left alone and pose no threat to anyone.

a reply to: theantediluvian

Could your language have been any more loaded?

LOL! Sure it could!!!

Who is trying very hard to make sure that "we" don't know about "autogynephilia" exactly? You say it's "despicable" and "deliberate" so clearly you must have some idea in order to make those sorts of claims.

Let's start with everyone everywhere who present themselves as having some degree of personal and/or professional knowledge who have repeatedly claimed no danger, misrepresented all such men the same, but never mentioned the "elephant" despite having some knowledge of autogynephiliia, falsely blaming selective groups for the controversy while ignoring others, all while mocking and insulting anyone who disagrees.

Everything else in your comment was addressed previously; I am going to assume that you have not read all that I wrote and the attendant links and are speaking from ignorance.... mostly because I don't want to believe that you would deliberately twist facts and issues and questions to confuse the matter.

All I can say is that
I went through a very hard time for the first few years here, not being able to speak the language and everything so damned hard to understand...

But now I am so glad that I do not have to deal with this issue that is apparently turning peoples lives inside out.

We have stalls that have walls that reach from ceiling to floor. That is what is traditional. Problem solved. Now we can go on to other things.


(plus, with all the worry about little girls, I noticed there is never a concern about all the little boys who continue to be in danger when they go into mens restrooms.)