Autogynephilia: The Elephant in the Transgender Bathroom

Autogynephilia is the dark side of the transgender issues that no one wants to talk about... and, indeed, many are trying to very hard to make sure we don't even know about. The level of deliberate deceit and dishonesty is despicable. And dangerous to women and girls. The talking points and buzzwords have been established, on both political sides, and autogynephilia proves the mistruths, half truths, and outright untruths of them all.

~~ We've been told this is all about gender not sex. This is a half truth. For autogynephiles, it's ALL ABOUT SEX -- those heterosexual and other nonhomosexual men who are sexually aroused by wearing women's clothing, and/or performing in female roles. They may also claim/believe they are women trapped in men's bodies, or (more commonly) possess both male and female attributes; but however they feel about their gender, it's all about sexual gratification.
On the Science of Changing Sex

~~ We've been told that all these transgender folks really really feeeeeeel like the other sex. This is a half truth. Many transgender people (including autogynephiles) feel like they are both genders or no gender or that their gender is constantly changing.
A survey of crossdressers
The Crossdreamer Survey on Gender Variance, Index of Posts

We've been told that medical technology has found that the brains of men who become transgender women are more like women's brains in significant ways. This is a half truth. The brains of the homosexual men who identified as a women are more like women's brains in significant ways. NOT the brains of the autogynephiles and other nonhomosexual men (such as bisexual or asexual).
New MRI Studies Support the Blanchard Typology of Male-to-Female Transsexualism

~~ We've been told that transgender bathroom laws are a constitutional right of transgender people. This is a lie. Courts have ruled that women have a constitutional right to sex-segregated spaces according to one's sex at birth.... not one's (brain) gender.
Ginsburg In 1975: Separate Bathrooms Are ‘In Some Situations Required’
The Fear of the Equal Rights Amendment

~~ We've been told this just about who pees next to us. This is a mistruth. This is about every sex-segregated space including locker rooms, showers, dressing rooms, shelters, prisons, hospitals, etc.

~~ We've been told that Europe has been doing this forever. This is a mistruth. Europe has only recently started introducing unisex bathrooms and are still relatively few and far between.
Unisex public toilet
In Europe, creating a post-gender world one small rule at a time

~~ We've been told that forcing men into sex-segregated spaces is the equivalent of gender neutral bathrooms -- open to any and all. This is a lie. Some men are being forced into a woman's space and other men are being kept out. In a sex-segregated bathroom (or any space), women and girls are secluded and vulnerable, with little to no chance of any good able-bodied men present to balance the scales and keep the creepy bad guys in line.
Gender Neutral Bathrooms
States protecting sex segregation and gender identity at the same time!

~~ We've been told that only rightwing nutjobs and and superstitious Christians have a problem with forcing men into women's spaces. This is a lie. A significant portion of women's rights advocates have a big problem with these laws, and transgender autogynephiles in particular. A significant portion of the gay population has a problem with forcing men into women's spaces (and vice versa) and would prefer sex neutral bathrooms free to use by anyone and everyone. And at least some would like the "T" removed from the "LGB".
Petitioning Human Rights Campaign and 5 others Drop the T
PEAK TRANS THREAD!

~~ We've been told that these men do not want to be noticed and just want to do their business. This is a mistruth. Autogynephiles not only want to be seen, their sexual gratification demands that they been seen and acknowledged and treated as a woman. Autogynephiles demand that we role play in their sexual fantasies.
Becoming what we Love -- Autogynephilic Transsexualism

(continued in next post...)

(continued...)

~~ We've been told that these men are no more of a threat than any other man. This is a half truth. We know that transgender men are convicted for crimes at the same rate as all men. We also know that 98% of sex offenders are men. We know that of the 88% who identify it as one of their top three fetishes, about 60% of these sex offenders identify crossdressing (autogynephilia) as their primary fetish. Hence, we know that transgender men are at least as great a threat to women and girls as any other man. (We do not know what percentage of transgender people are autogynephiles... and I suspect that this is by design).
Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery: Cohort Study in Sweden
The Search for the Best Estimate of the Transgender Population

~~ We've been told that transgender people are victims of violence disproportionate to the rest of the population. This is a half-truth. The abuse and violence suffered by too many transgender kids -- and adults -- is heartbreaking. No one deserves that. But about 50% of transgender folks report that they have been the victim of violence (including, sadly, from law enforcement and medical providers!). However, too often, that violence is also committed by transgender "women." It's a vicious circle.
Responding to Transgender Victims of Sexual Assault
Transgender Sex Offenders: Feminists Advocate ‘Allison’s Law’ to Protect Public
‘Tangerine’ London film premiere hit by Lesbian Nation protest

(Note that there is no intention and no effort to prevent transgender sexual predators from women's bathrooms. No concern whatsoever for the safety of the women and girls put in harm's way... just a whole lot of concern for the men who want to force their way into the ladies room.

~~ We've been told that autogynephilia has been "debunked." This is a lie. The self-proclaimed debunkers have been debunked by the autogynephiles themselves. Though they prefer other terms, they admit that the sexual aspect is true. For many of these self-identified autogynephiles, who often suffer much distress and depression because of their condition, and who feel that further research and treatment is appropriate and could help relieve their suffering, there is reasonable frustration and even resentment at those who refuse to acknowledge the truth and even claim it is "debunked."
On the Science of Changing Sex: Autogynephilia

~~ We've been told that autogynephilia is not a paraphilia nor a disorder. This is a mistruth. If the autogynephile does not hurt anyone else or involve anyone else involuntarily, then it is not a sex offense, but it may or may not be a disorder/paraphilia. However, autogynephilia is known as a condition with an inherent pattern of escalation -- a continuum and a progression, including dissociation and narcissism. When not treated, harmless victimless behavior in search of sexual gratification may progress to violence and other criminal behavior.
On the Science of Changing Sex: Autogynephilia

~~ We've been told that autogynephilia is not a threat to anyone else. This is a mistruth. It can progress to a point of violence... especially when the associated narcissism turns into narcissistic rage, or when a sadomasichistic fetish is also present (which is not uncommon).
Anne Lawrence: Shame and Narcissistic Rage in Autogynephilic Transsexualism

I have not used the politcally correct transgender preferred terms and I will not apologize for it. I used the terms most familiar and commonly understood in order not to confuse the issue -- which I believe is a common practice in order to keep the general population dumb and dumber about the truth. I have however tried to use the most transgender friendly sources possible, albeit outliers in an effort to reveal a different perspective -- the politically incorrect perspective. The good, the bad and the ugly.

My sincere hope is that when we know better we will do better, and that by posting relevent and much needed information about autogynephilia that the level of discourse at ATS (and everywhere) will rise to address this elephant in the room. My prayer is that this information will serve as a warning to everyone and that women and girls (and their menfolk) can prepare accordingly. Knowledge is power and forewarned is forearmed.

More Information on Autogynephilia

On the Science of Changing Sex

The word comes from “auto”, meaning ‘self’, “gyne”, meaning ‘female’, and “philia” meaning ‘love’. In other words, the “love of oneself as a woman”. In the simplest analysis, autogynephilia (AGP) is a set of sexual interests and behaviors that includes the more commonly understood term, transvestism... There are five major categories of autogynephilic expression / interests: Transvestic, Anatomic, Behavioral, Interpersonal, and Physiological.

... autogynephilia is both a spectrum and a progression from transvestite to transsexual. As an old joke in the transgender community has it: What’s the difference between a transvestite and a transsexual? Two years!

Any individual AGP male may experience any of the above in any combination and intensity. These sexual arousal patterns and interests usually surface in puberty, though occasionally they may surface earlier. Their overt sexual nature is most observable in adolescence, when these behaviors and fantasies are often enacted along with masturbation. As an autogynephilic individual matures, the overt sexual nature may become less apparent, while the need for the behavior, especially crossdressing and MTF transition, grows. Thus, erotic transvestism and autogynephilic transsexuality are both a continuum and a progression.

It simultaneously depends upon and competes with heterosexual interest in women. Because of this, autogynephilia is not found in exclusively homosexual males (nor in heterosexual females, for the same reason). This is important in that there are two etiologies leading to MTF transsexuality, one is autogynephilia, as discussed here, the other is found in extremely feminine, exclusively “homosexual” males, who from early childhood, clearly act like and wish to be female.

FAQ on the Science of Changing Sex

There are two basic biological taxons (types) with their own unique etiologies (causes / conditions) that are found in transsexuals / transgendered people. They are mutually exclusive and distinct. That is to say, one and only one of these two conditions can be found in any one person, there is no overlap between them. The conditions, and those people with them, only superficially resemble each other but are often confused and conflated with each other in the media, by the general public, and even by transfolk themselves. That is to say, that there are two, and only two, separate “transgender spectrums”.

The word comes from “auto”, meaning ‘self’, “gyne”, meaning ‘female’, and “philia” meaning ‘love’. In other words, the “love of oneself as a woman”. In the simplest analysis, autogynephilia (AGP) is a set of sexual interests and behaviors that includes the more commonly understood term, transvestism.

Before transition, the natural behavior of non-homosexual / autogynephilic MTF transsexuals is gender typical, easily passing as typical straight men, often marrying women, fathering children, and successful in stereotypically masculine and even hyper-masculine (e.g. Navy Seal) careers. As it takes years for the cross-gender identity to form and establish itself, the modal age for transition is 35 to 40 years old, the mean is between 40 to 45, with a range of early 20’s to very old age.

It is important to remember that the key difference between the two is that the first type is exclusively, or primarily, “homosexual” with regard to natal sex and gender atypical in natural behavior and manner, making it difficult to fit in as their natal sex, while the second type is defined by their atypical sexuality, being aroused by the thought of being or becoming the opposite sex.

What Many Transgender Activists Don’t Want You to Know: and why you should know it anyway

How many autogynephiliacs are there?

The fact is that we do not know, because the research only includes respondents who have applied for SRS... As a minimum some two thirds of the woman-loving transsexuals report autogynephilic arousal. That alone means that a significant proportion of the people applying for sex reassignment surgery are autogynephiliacs... Note that the large majority of autogynephiliacs do not transition. The survey of crossdresser I referred to earlier indicates that only 17 percent would even consider a sex change operation. 9 percent were using or had been using hormones. At the most this would mean that 1 out of 10 crossdressers are doing something actively to change their sex. This means that there could be between 1 and 2 million autogynephiliacs in the US alone. On a global scale 1 percent would equal 25 million men (2,5 billion adult men/100), and that is a conservative estimate. If this really is the case, autogynephilia becomes one of the largest cover-ups in human history!

Lawrence, A., “Autogynephilia: A Paraphilic Model of Gender Identity Disorder”

"Is there a cure for autogynephilia?"

A survey of crossdressers

Links to several surveys here: The Crossdreamer Survey on Gender Variance, Index of Posts

Links to several studies here: Murder statistics of transgender people

More Links/Info:

Ginsburg In 1975: Separate Bathrooms Are ‘In Some Situations Required’

In an article in The Washington Post in 1975, Ginsberg wrote to dispel the fear that the Equal Rights Act would “require unisex restrooms in public places.” According to Ginsberg, “Emphatically not so.”

The now-Supreme Court justice continued, “Separate places to disrobe, sleep, perform personal bodily functions are permitted, in some situations required, by regard for individual privacy.”

“Individual privacy, a right of constitutional dimension, is appropriately harmonized with the equality principle,” Ginsberg claimed. “But the ‘potty issue’ is likely to remain one of those ultimate questions never pressed to final solution.”

PA Lawmakers Respond to Obama’s Bathroom Decree

“The issue of whether Title IX protects a student’s gender identity has already been decided by a federal court in Pennsylvania. Title IX provides that educational programs cannot discriminate ‘on the basis of sex.’ In Johnson v. Univ. of Pittsburgh Com. Sys. of Higher Education, the federal court for the Western District Court of Pennsylvania found that Title IX’s language did not provide a basis for a transgender status claim. The Court held that ‘Title IX and its implementing regulations clearly permit schools to provide students with certain sex-segregated spaces, including bathroom and locker room facilities, to perform certain private activities and bodily functions consistent with the individual’s birth sex’ (emphasis added). Relying on this rationale, the Court upheld the University of Pittsburgh’s policy of separating bathrooms and locker rooms on the basis of birth sex under Title IX and the United States Constitution. An appeal of this decision was dismissed by the Third Circuit Court of Appeals on March 30, 2016.

Exception Language for Sex vs "Gender Identity" Definition

‘Tangerine’ London film premiere hit by Lesbian Nation protest

The group protested the film’s depiction of extreme misogyny and the normalization of male violence and brutality against women. ‘Tangerine’ features an extended sequence of a man repeatedly slapping, battering, dragging and lifting a kidnapped woman, violence which goes on for several scenes and is played for laughs: because the male perpetrator is a “transwoman”.

Gay/Lesbian Community
Petitioning Human Rights Campaign and 5 others Drop the T

We are a group of gay/bisexual men and women who have come to the conclusion that the transgender community needs to be disassociated from the larger LGB community... as we feel their ideology is not only completely different from that promoted by the LGB community (LGB is about sexual orientation, trans is about gender identity), but is ultimately regressive and actually hostile to the goals of women and gay men.

There are several areas in which the ideology of the trans community is at odds with or actively hostile to that of women and gay men; among the most important are:
• The vilification and harassment of women and gay/lesbian individuals who openly express disagreement with the trans ideology; a simple disagreement over an issue can result in responses that range from insults (“transphobic bigot”) to threats of physical harm (often, in the case of women, rape) and even death...
• The infringement of the rights of individuals, particularly women, to perform normal everyday activities in traditional safe spaces based on sex; this is most pernicious in the case of men claiming to be transgender demanding access to bathrooms, locker rooms, women’s shelters and other such spaces reserved for women.
• The appropriation and re-writing of gay and lesbian history and culture...
• Most troubling, by persuading parents and health professionals to diagnose children as young as four as transgender, despite considerable research that shows that more than 90 percent of children who express “gender dysphoria” at a young age grow out of it by adolescence and, in most cases, grow up to be well-adjusted gay men and women; ideologically, it runs counter to traditional LGB and feminist philosophy – whereas feminists and gay men/women advocate for expanding and re-defining gender concepts, the trans movement is regressive, insisting upon re-asserting and codifying classic gender concepts of what is masculine and what is feminine.

Sex Offenses Committed by Men Dressed as Women:
When is 90% not Substantially ALL?
Male transgenderites are 18 times more likely than real women to be convicted of violent crime
Ban Rapists & Violent Predators from Changing Legal Gender & Name

What Happened to Me was Predictable

... every spouse there is saying the same things, and has always said the same things, and will always say the same things. And they say them like they’re new and unique, but they all say them, and they all try and try and try to find fresh new answers, and they all fail to do so in the same way.... This is just the transgender experience. Narcissism, sexual dysfunction, partner neglect, childishness, temper tantrums, lack of impulse control. Tell me again why this is a normal human variation?

a reply to: Boadicea

Excellent Topic.

Well researched and well written !!!

Lots of study required.

a reply to: Boadicea

This is all information I had suspected or already knew,regardless good thread.

Awesome thread OP. It's going to take me awhile to wade through it all.

The ones that just do it for money and try to trick people are what I have a big problem with.

A morning walk to the beach says it all.

Yes, it's a factor and a concern.

But you seem to be claiming that all transgender folk have this disorder.

Why then have we not heard of massive problems with sexual assault in female bathrooms up until now, when though transgender folk have been using them unnoticed?

There is a clear difference between a transvestite and a transgender person. You don't seem to grasp that little fact.

a reply to: VashTheStampede
a reply to: xuenchen
a reply to: Domo1

Thank you all!

And extra thanks to Domo for the Shaq pic -- I love Shaq!!! And most appropriate

In my country facilities are still segregated.But i have always accompanied my children to public toilets,and when my 10yo son has to pee,i take him into the ladies' toilets with me.No one seems to mind.And when he gets older,i shall be waiting right outside the men's toilet door-and if he's not out within 3-4 minutes-i am going inside to check if he's ok.It has nothing to do with transgenders-there's just too many twisted f's in this world and i refuse to take the slightest atom of a chance with my childrens' safety.

originally posted by: markosity1973
Yes, it's a factor and a concern.

But you seem to be claiming that all transgender folk have this disorder.

Not at all. Very clear distinctions have been made; specifically between homosexual transgender male to females, and the aautogynephiles.

Why then have we not heard of massive problems with sexual assault in female bathrooms up until now, when though transgender folk have been using them unnoticed?

Good question. It's not a secret, but it sure isn't part of the mainstream media narrative nor the national dialogue. I linked to several articles with many specific cases, including one that reportedly had 250 separate instances.

There is a clear difference between a transvestite and a transgender person. You don't seem to grasp that little fact.

Au contraire. In fact I quoted one source which specifically stated, based on available data and an ongoing inside joke in the transgender community, that the difference is a couple of years. In other words, autogynephilia is known as a "continuum" and a "progression" which evolves. Yesterday's transvestite is tomorrow's transgender.

a reply to: Boadicea

I dunno even know how to pronounce that word.

People understand that trannys have been around forever using the bathroom they feel comfortable using all this time, right?

Wait, this thread is about transgender bathroom usage right? The thread is long and I doubt I'll read all 8 pages of the OP.

a reply to: Domo1

I'm more interested in knowing why Shaq had a giant bag of popcorn and how much of it he ate.

a reply to: Boadicea

So much food for thought. Awesome thread, Boadicea. S&F

I was raised to believe that my rights extend to the reach of my fingertips. But, that my reach of rights did not eclipse the reach of others rights.

I'll be upfront, and say that I am rather conflicted on the topic of gender dysphoria. A very dear friend suddenly announced at the age of thirty that he was gender dysphoric, and handled things in a traumatic fashion with regards to all those around him. Including his fiance. Given how this hit home to me in a very real, personal way...as we *were* very close.... I have to state that I am conflicted.

I feel that those who are transgender deserve to feel at ease.

However, does their right to do so come at the cost of the ease of others?

Where is the line drawn?

This is not about whether or not someone who is transgender is right, or a good person.

This is about the right of all involved. And, we are ALL involved.

a reply to: Raxoxane

Is your son autistic or has some other form of mental retardation? If you are taking a normal 10 year old into the bath room with you. If there isn't anything wrong with him, there will be.

a reply to: nullafides

I'll be upfront, and say that I am rather conflicted on the topic of gender dysphoria. A very dear friend suddenly announced at the age of thirty that he was gender dysphoric, and handled things in a traumatic fashion with regards to all those around him. Including his fiance. Given how this hit home to me in a very real, personal way...as we *were* very close.... I have to state that I am conflicted.

It sounds like your friend fits the normal selfish and even narcissistic pattern of the heterosexual autogynephilic men who declare their "true" transgender nature at a later age, often after marriage to a woman and even fathering children. Many "trans widows" tell the same basic story. As difficult and painful as it must have been for his fiancee, perhaps she's lucky it happened sooner rather than later.

I feel that those who are transgender deserve to feel at ease.

However, does their right to do so come at the cost of the ease of others?

More to the point, does their right to feel at ease take precedence over the safety of others? No.

originally posted by: Domo1

Awesome thread OP. It's going to take me awhile to wade through it all.

Yep a mouth full..


Pa law..
“The issue of whether Title IX protects a student’s gender identity has already been decided by a federal court in Pennsylvania. Title IX provides that educational programs cannot discriminate ‘on the basis of sex.’ In Johnson v. Univ. of Pittsburgh Com. Sys. of Higher Education, the federal court for the Western District Court of Pennsylvania found that Title IX’s language did not provide a basis for a transgender status claim. The Court held that ‘Title IX and its implementing regulations clearly permit schools to provide students with certain sex-segregated spaces, including bathroom and locker room facilities, to perform certain private activities and bodily functions consistent with the individual’s birth sex’ (emphasis added). Relying on this rationale, the Court upheld the University of Pittsburgh’s policy of separating bathrooms and locker rooms on the basis of birth sex under Title IX and the United States Constitution. An appeal of this decision was dismissed by the Third Circuit Court of Appeals on March 30, 2016."


( NOT DIRECTED AT DOMO)
Keep every one SEGEREGATED!
Just wait till some assh@le exploits this. And woops! And someone is physically assaulted and or battery take your pick.

WTF! You prefer another gender.. great! Keep it to yourself and NO BODY GETS HURT.
Thank Gov. Wolf😉 great job you _$€^/€%/€%/*^!

Give it time. There will be an assault on a kid or elderly that can't fend themselves. People are that messed up😠

a reply to: thinline

Picture any given beach.Many many grains of sand,ya? Well that's the amount of effs i don't give for your rude and obnoxious opinion.We live in South Africa.