Schools reject Obama transgender decree: ‘Straight into the paper shredder’

originally posted by: Phage

originally posted by: Talorc
This is all semantic tomf*ckery, all of it. Gender identity doesn't exist in real life, nor does it have any tangible analogue. No one exists as some abstract concept, template, or stereotype, even if they believe they do. This is the human mind getting lost in abstraction. Same as any superstition, just different packaging. Everyone debating this is a superstitious loon.

So, it doesn't matter who uses which bathroom?

Choosing which bathroom to use is just as arbitrary as plenty of other things people do, I guess.

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: Talorc

Laughing here

Thanks - for that. If you don't mind my asking - what should we be debating?

Humans you know...

I don't really know. Funny monkeys need to pass the time somehow; this is as good as anything else. I could pick my nose instead, maybe.

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: In4ormant

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: In4ormant
a reply to: Annee

Yes after puberty.

I'm not letting my 3 year old determine his/gender.

So if the 3 year old has a penis, you are going to force him to act like a boy.

After puberty. You've totally closed your mind to any and all professional information provided.

I'm not gonna force him to "act" anyway. That's not what parents do. He can act however he wants. If he still feels like a girl after puberty and his bodies natural hormones kick in we would begin to look at what options are available.

Apparently, you've decided you are the expert.

Or at least as much as you are Annee

I'm not the one rejecting professionals and those knowledgeable of transgender - - - in favor of my own opinion.

I was just pointing out the obvious annee. Are you an expert? Then why challenging if someone else is, if its just your opinion based on stuff you've read that agree with your opinion?

I read a lot. I read many sites and authors. Basing my posts on a consensus of accumulated information.

I'm not the one rejecting professionals and those knowledgeable of transgender - - - in favor of my own opinion.

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

Yes in fact gender identity issues are being foisted on school kids of all ages in the Common Core materials. If it wasn't an agenda it wouldn't be in all the courses including language and math.

You mean they're learning about real life, real people, and diversity?

The horrors

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

As far as it going away....it definitely will not go away as long as its being promoted in every course.

There were no transgendered in the 50s?

You do know about values clarification right? I expect you are brilliant enough to do the research on your own and understand, but in case you don't feel like it, I might be willing to provide some links.

Does it have something to do with the morality of being transgendered (or gay). If so, nevermind.

a reply to: Talorc

Funny monkeys need to pass the time somehow

True enough - I'm off to bed

:-)

a reply to: Phage

The national effort will have a pervasive effect on college admissions and scholarship opportunities. Private and home school children will have to study for the standardized tests, or else be disadvantaged vis-à-vis other students. It also creates challenges for students seeking to transfer credits between private and public schools, and home school and public schools.

A national standard could fundamentally alter the accreditation process. By establishing a national standard with a national curriculum, schools would be forced to give up their autonomy in order to meet the criteria needed for accreditation. Students could also be discriminated against by a higher education entity if they did not graduate from a school that did not adhere to the common or

truthinamericaneducation.com...

As public institutions, charter schools in state that have adopted Common Core will also have to comply with the national standards. This command and control directly undermines the freedom that has led to charters’ success. Common Core champions will claim that charters still have the freedom to choose their own textbooks and employ alternative teaching techniques – which is technically true. But, now that the federal government is overseeing what’s on Common Core’s assessments, charter school teachers will have no choice but to teach their students what Washington wants to prepare their students for the standardized test. So much for school choice.

As for private institutions, many parochial schools are voluntarily taking up Common Core. The Catholic School Standards Project, for example, is encouraging local dioceses to adopt the Core. While private schools like those of the Catholic Church have every right to adopt standards that they see fit for their students, parents should beware that Common Core has a direct pipeline to Washington

That's just two quick links. I happened to have been aware of it because of being on a local committee which included one now state rep.
The standards are one thing but the curriculum and content designed to go along with the standards include indoctrinating sex ed and gender identity focus in all the courses.
americansforprosperity.org...
www.crisismagazine.com...
and my personal experience in my community is that some parents discovered that the book Punkzilla was in the school library and objected and a big meeting took place at the middle school and people were invited to go up to a mic and give their opinions. The local Progressives won the day and the book stayed. They brought in a librarian from a neighboring town even to stack the deck. My compatriot was derided and harassed by the local witches.
The book contains graphic materials involving school children drugs and sex and as I remember dropping out. Why do Progressives see this stuff as appropriate?

a reply to: Phage

Ive never said anything about the 50's. That was annee. Just because there were transgendered kids in the 50's does not make it appropriate to sexualize all children in educational materials.
By the way a lot of this was started by Alfred Kinsey and some colleagues of his. He had financial sponsorship by none other than the Rockefellers. rockefeller100.org...

The Rockefellers were also involved with funding Margaret Sangers very racist American Birth Control League which later changed its name to Planned Parenthood.
Rockefellers have been very much involved in depopulation efforts.
Heres an interesting history I found which sure put a perspective on things I thought
www.thepublicdiscourse.com...

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: Phage

Ive never said anything about the 50's. That was annee. Just because there were transgendered kids in the 50's does not make it appropriate to sexualize all children in educational materials.

I never said anything about transgenders in the 50s

a reply to: Annee

Oh sorry you said they were in your school.

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: Annee

Oh sorry you said they were in your school.

I was in school in the 50s.

a reply to: Annee

So reading a lot makes you an expert and the other poster not? You know as well as I do there are two sides to this.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: Annee

Oh sorry you said they were in your school.

I was in school in the 50s.

and you said there were transgender kids in your school. And did everyone know they were transgender? I find it hard to believe there were that many in the 50's.

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Ive never said anything about the 50's.

I know. This is what you said:

As far as it going away....it definitely will not go away as long as its being promoted in every course.

It wasn't being talked about in the 50s. And yet, it was there. Swept under the rug.

It is not being "promoted", it is being talked about. Because sweeping things under the rug does no one any good.

originally posted by: Talorc

Do you support modern feminism and its basic tenets?

Not sure exactly what you're referring to but probably less than you might suspect, particularly radical feminism. I think women should be equal to men, make the same pay as men for doing the same job, should be able to do anything men do and all that other crap. I detest sexism in general but recognize both misogyny and misandry when I see it. If your specific question is if I believe gender is a social construct, I would have to agree some aspects such as gender roles and societal expectations are but also believe as biological animals, it would be foolish to ignore certain innate behaviors that are hardwired in.

You might be surprised to know I'm pretty traditional and old-fashioned in many respects. Do I think I have to bow down to the patriarchy and be a good little woman that knows her place in the kitchen making sammiches? No. Hell no.

This is all semantic tomf*ckery, all of it. Gender identity doesn't exist in real life, nor does it have any tangible analogue.

I'm sorry, everyone regardless of who or what they are has a gender identity but just don't recognize it. Are you a man? How do you know? If somehow you lost your genitals, wouldn't you still know you were a man? This sense of your own gender, what you are, is your gender identity. Certainly seems more than a matter of semantics?

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis

I remember when I was little I wanted to be a boy - but I knew I was a girl

That's one of the clinical differentiators between transgender and non-transgender or gender non-conforming children. They don't say I want to be a girl/boy, they say they ARE a girl/boy. When this is expressed consistently, persistently and insistently over time, that's when professionals start considering gender dysphoria. Early on in the study of this, it was referred to as a complete psychosexual inversion (for a bit of ancient history and arcane psychiatric terminology).

But, when my mom cut my hair short - I pitched a fit the likes of which you have never seen. Girls didn't have short hair - and I was a girl. I grew up to be very feminine. I realize now that I just liked to do boy stuff because it seemed more interesting and fun. But I'm all girl

Ah yes, beyond the social and behavior, when it comes to physicality or the sovereignty of our bodies, we know what's what and what fits with who we are. After I was 8, my hair was allowed to grow because girls didn't have short hair and I was a girl. I became a wild feral beast when anyone tried to get near me with scissors or clippers. By the time I graduated high school, my blond hair was almost to my waist and other aspects of my body that didn't fit who I was became a lot more significant than just hair. I'm traditionally binary and feminine as well, like my hair long, like my curves, think make-up is fun, etc. and I didn't learn to do "boy stuff" until I got older and was more secure that "boy stuff" didn't make me be seen as a boy. (this is kind of typical for transgender kids) For example, I started riding motorcycles when I was 26, but I'm all girl - nothing can change that or ever has.

My folks let me be what I wanted. I didn't choose girl - I just knew

Yeah, I didn't choose it either. Things would have been a hell of a lot easier if I had.

Some things just seem obvious to me. I understand that that doesn't mean it's obvious to everyone

What I don't understand is how we can look a kid in the eye - this little person - and tell them they have to be what we want them to be

Society is what makes us conform. It's what makes parents tear themselves apart over stuff like this. It's the rules that make it easier for all the other parents at a school to punish a child for not being what they want that child to be

I think it is a parent's responsibility to gently guide their children toward traditional gender roles because these are the aspects of gender that are a construct. To do anything less would be remiss. These things typically aren't presented as a choice. There are societal expectations of conformity but society and culture is not static and when these roles are inappropriately forced on a transgender child, often due to religious morality or whatever, it is a sad thing.

All these people rallying against this would feel the polar opposite looking into the eyes of their own child that was suffering. If they had a shred of compassion and humanity and loved their children unconditionally, they would do everything in their power to educate themselves. Organizations that I support, like Gender Spectrum offer resources and information as well as support for parents faced with this situation.

It is easy to spout opinions on a message board. It's another thing to raise a healthy transgender child.

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: Annee

So reading a lot makes you and expert and the other poster not? You know as well as I do there are two sides to this.

Reading a lot, both pro and con, provides knowledgeable information from professionals/specialists on a subject. This information can then be accessed to form an informed conclusion.

Rejecting this information as false, must make the person rejecting it the Expert, as he knows better.

Since I am not the one rejecting it, for me the experts are the professionals/specialists.

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: Annee

Oh sorry you said they were in your school.

I was in school in the 50s.

and you said there were transgender kids in your school.

You're gonna need to find that and prove it.

a reply to: Phage

Yes it is SO being promoted. I know you don't want to believe that. If it wasn't an agenda the current admin would not be issuing such dictates to the schools. Cmon go into your heart of hearts on this. Values clarification involves introducing ideas to children and getting them to think about them.

Common Core is voodoo education
values clarification has been used by humanists and the NEA to shape children's thinking according to the dictates of the Supreme State, just what John Dewey wanted.

a reply to: Annee

Oh for crying out loud annee I just read it a few pages back. Im not going to go back through pages to find it. I read it and you know it.
Enough I really don't care. Its still your opinions based on reading people who are pushing the agenda.
Anyway I have to work early so time to finish this dialogue for the moment.

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Yes it is SO being promoted.

I guess teen suicide is being promoted too.
"Let turn them queer and get them to kill themselves."

Teaching understanding is not the same as promoting. But I can see how evangelicals might get confused, since they actually are trying to convert others.

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: Annee

Oh for crying out loud annee I just read it a few pages back. Im not going to go back through pages to find it. I read it and you know it.
Enough I really don't care. Its still your opinions based on reading people who are pushing the agenda.
Anyway I have to work early so time to finish this dialogue for the moment.

Well, good.

Cuz you won't find it.