Schools reject Obama transgender decree: ‘Straight into the paper shredder’

a reply to: Teikiatsu

But we had a much more sane and common sense society that told them they had a mental illness,

What was the treatment for that mental illness?
Ostracization? Did it work? Were they cured?

originally posted by: queenofswords

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: queenofswords

originally posted by: In4ormant
a reply to: Annee

I'm not an expert and never claimed to be. I said In my personal opinion, letting a 3 year old determine themselves to be transgendered and doctors reinforcing the notion at such young ages was batsh!t crazy to me.

It is bath!t crazy and too many young parents are bath!t confused and crazy, too. We are living in a world where people think this is normal and its cool to just throw parental guidance to the wind and let things just fall in whatever confused way they fall.

I'm on my 3rd generation of raising kids. Hardly confused.

I'm smart enough to have an open mind to new discoveries, and to educate myself on them from people who actually know a thing or 2.

Slamming doors out of stubbornness or that you think you know better - - - does not reflect that of an intelligent mind.

You are always tooting your own horn, Annee, and act like you are an expert at everything because you have been everything, done everything, and experienced everything....lol.

We are all smart enough to be open to new things and to educate ourselves. Those that come to different conclusions than you aren't dumber just because they came to different conclusions.

I would say a grandmother/great grandmother like you who is still raising their kids' kids may not have actually made all the right decisions like you may think you did. My 2Cents.

Succinct statements, leaving the drama out of it.

It was my choice to help raise my grandson when his daddy died of Cancer before he was a month old.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Talorc

AFAIK, it's standard neo-liberal dogma that started in the latter stages of the women's equality movement.

So, there were no transgendered before 1970?

I was talking about gender being a social construct. First it was, now apparently it isn't. Or maybe is and it isn't, just pick whichever "fact" suits the current fad.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: queenofswords

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: queenofswords

originally posted by: In4ormant
a reply to: Annee

I'm not an expert and never claimed to be. I said In my personal opinion, letting a 3 year old determine themselves to be transgendered and doctors reinforcing the notion at such young ages was batsh!t crazy to me.

It is bath!t crazy and too many young parents are bath!t confused and crazy, too. We are living in a world where people think this is normal and its cool to just throw parental guidance to the wind and let things just fall in whatever confused way they fall.

I'm on my 3rd generation of raising kids. Hardly confused.

I'm smart enough to have an open mind to new discoveries, and to educate myself on them from people who actually know a thing or 2.

Slamming doors out of stubbornness or that you think you know better - - - does not reflect that of an intelligent mind.

You are always tooting your own horn, Annee, and act like you are an expert at everything because you have been everything, done everything, and experienced everything....lol.

We are all smart enough to be open to new things and to educate ourselves. Those that come to different conclusions than you aren't dumber just because they came to different conclusions.

I would say a grandmother/great grandmother like you who is still raising their kids' kids may not have actually made all the right decisions like you may think you did. My 2Cents.

Succinct statements, leaving the drama out of it.

It was my choice to help raise my grandson when his daddy died of Cancer before he was a month old.

Sorry for the loss. And how is that grandson doing today? You took him to raise when he was a month old?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Teikiatsu

But we had a much more sane and common sense society that told them they had a mental illness,

What was the treatment for that mental illness?
Ostracization? Did it work? Were they cured?

Ask a psychologist from the more sane and common sense society.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

Ask a psychologist from the more sane and common sense society.

You don't know the answer?

originally posted by: Talorc

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Talorc

AFAIK, it's standard neo-liberal dogma that started in the latter stages of the women's equality movement.

So, there were no transgendered before 1970?

I was talking about gender being a social construct. First it was, now apparently it isn't. Or maybe is and it isn't, just pick whichever "fact" suits the current fad.

Curious.
Wouldn't the existence of a social construct be dependent upon the society?

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: MiddleInitial
a reply to: Annee

I do believe that Profusion has a point, if only on the grounds of student safety. I'm not sure what kind of experience you had growing up in school, but I was picked on a bit. It doesn't take a huge leap of the imagination to see major problems arising out of a miniscule population (aka, minority) of gender dysphoric students using the same facilities as normal students. Kids can be cruel.

There were transgender kids in school. They used the bathroom they identified with. There was no issue ---- until a paranoid adult threw a fit.

Get over yourselves.

Your attitude to this is 90% of the problem. Conform to what I want or else doesn't get results. The more you push your agenda the more push back you will get...it's common sense.

Stop acting like a bully.

Meh... I don't really have a problem with school kids using the restrooms that they identify with. Transgenderism is still an odd concept to me. I read an article about six months ago in which the former director of psychiatry(?... I think) from John's Hopkins that he believes being transgender are mentally ill and suffering an illness of identity. I'm not sure but it may be described as "gender dysphoria" in the DSM. I also have read a few posts on Reddit and the like that are trans and completely agreed. They made a very good point however; there really isn't a better treatment other than sex change. In some cases.

I totally disagree with parents and doctors that start hormone therapy on children and teens. I've read that children as young as four are subjected to this. It is disgusting on many, many levels.

Again I don't have much of an issue with the entire bathroom thing. The stalls are private and if a male, for instance, wanted to rape a female in the bathroom, in most schools, there isn't much to stop it. There aren't many bathroom gaurds as far as I know. Hell if I really have to go and there is a single occupancy women's room I use it. Sorry.

I think the real issue here is the locker room and showers. I have a young daughter and there is no way in the world that once she is in high school that I want her having to change or shower with a biological male.

I certainly get protecting the rights of a minority and the problems with majority rule. Majority rule and opinion led to lynchings and Jim Crow in the South. That being said this is a step too far. Young ladies from across the nation have spoken out against this (locker rooms/showers). Respect their opinions and privacy. I understand being trans must be hell but at the end of the day I'm not a women because I think/feel that I am. It isn't fair to subject these young ladies to such discomfort because a handful of people might be offended. What about all of the self conscious/or not females or males? Do their feelings matter?

IMO society has gone mad. BTW: On many issues I tend to be fairly liberal.

originally posted by: queenofswords

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: queenofswords

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: queenofswords

originally posted by: In4ormant
a reply to: Annee

I'm not an expert and never claimed to be. I said In my personal opinion, letting a 3 year old determine themselves to be transgendered and doctors reinforcing the notion at such young ages was batsh!t crazy to me.

It is bath!t crazy and too many young parents are bath!t confused and crazy, too. We are living in a world where people think this is normal and its cool to just throw parental guidance to the wind and let things just fall in whatever confused way they fall.

I'm on my 3rd generation of raising kids. Hardly confused.

I'm smart enough to have an open mind to new discoveries, and to educate myself on them from people who actually know a thing or 2.

Slamming doors out of stubbornness or that you think you know better - - - does not reflect that of an intelligent mind.

You are always tooting your own horn, Annee, and act like you are an expert at everything because you have been everything, done everything, and experienced everything....lol.

We are all smart enough to be open to new things and to educate ourselves. Those that come to different conclusions than you aren't dumber just because they came to different conclusions.

I would say a grandmother/great grandmother like you who is still raising their kids' kids may not have actually made all the right decisions like you may think you did. My 2Cents.

Succinct statements, leaving the drama out of it.

It was my choice to help raise my grandson when his daddy died of Cancer before he was a month old.

Sorry for the loss. And how is that grandson doing today? You took him to raise when he was a month old?

Oh, its actually more complicated then that. I was in a 20 year marriage, but he is 21 years younger then me. I felt he needed a younger wife. He's a great guy, I didn't want him to live his years being my nursemaid and resenting his life. Also in different state then my daughter. Have had grandson since he was 3 days old, with daughter and granddaughter. Went back and forth between states for several years Ex now happily married. Grandson high functioning autistic - - full time job. Mom works.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

Electo shock therapy was considered sane and common sense.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: Teikiatsu

Electo shock therapy was considered sane and common sense.

And it was used for a multitude of mental disorders, not just people with gender confusion. Just because it was a catch-all didn't mean that the patient had any less of a delusion.

originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: Freija

Freija, I have read your story and it sounds like your parents didn't display the best kind of guidance and direction for you early on. I don't believe in beating anything into a kid. I believe in being tuned in, firm but loving guidance, and persistent education in terms appropriate for their age level.

I don't doubt that true gender dysphoria is real. I know that the gender identification stage in early childhood development happens before the age of one, in infancy. I think parents can drop the ball, and with kids being placed in daycare at just a few weeks of age, lots of things can fall through the cracks.

Nature, in general, makes it easy, but our world has become complicated and confusing, and a child coming into the bizarro world we live in today doesn't have it so easy....just too many confusing signals and visuals.

My father was a dick about this but I was loved and well cared for by both my parents and later step-father who was a Lutheran pastor. I received nothing but positive affirmation and guidance by both word and example on how to be a good little boy, how to act like a boy and expectations were made quite clear on my behavior. I was born in 1955. We lived on a farm and didn't even have a television and I never went to daycare.

The only thing I received punishment for was verbalizing that I was not a boy and it didn't take too long to figure out all I needed to do was keep my mouth shut about it and everything was cool. Well except that I didn't act like a boy, didn't have the personality of a boy, didn't do boy things, wouldn't play with boy's toys, etc. I was an unstoppable force and have always been true to my innate nature. You do know that the weight of all current medical and scientific research points to this being biological in nature?

Nothing made me the way I was. It was just who I was and who I've always been in spite of all the parental and social programming and guidance and positive reinforcement to be something else. This isn't something I just picked up somewhere. It isn't some deficiency in my upbringing or parental inadequacy. The accommodations that were made for my behavior and personality, from the time I was very little until I was fifteen or so weren't because my folks weren't trying their their very best to help me be a boy, just that they were powerless to change who I was. Nobody understood but they also knew when I was suffering or struggling and against convention, society and the morality of the time, I did have dolls and Barbies and did the things most little girls got to do because nothing else made me happy or cooperative or social. It's no big deal today if boys want to play with dolls, play house and have tea parties but in the 50's and 60's this was pretty radical and EVERYTHING was done to discourage this behavior so don't blame my environment.



Tekiatsu, don't diss my parents or the parents of any transgender child. You might feel very different in a year or two when your son tells you he is trans or gay. How will you react?

a reply to: Freija

It's no big deal today if boys want to play with dolls, play house and have tea parties but in the 50's and 60's this was pretty radical and EVERYTHING was done to discourage this behavior so don't blame my environment.

Unless the boy's dolls carried guns, of course. But then they weren't dolls, they were action figures and guns are, of course, manly.
Everybody knows girls don't like guns.

originally posted by: Phage

originally posted by: Talorc

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Talorc

AFAIK, it's standard neo-liberal dogma that started in the latter stages of the women's equality movement.

So, there were no transgendered before 1970?

I was talking about gender being a social construct. First it was, now apparently it isn't. Or maybe is and it isn't, just pick whichever "fact" suits the current fad.

Curious.
Wouldn't the existence of a social construct be dependent upon the society?

If gender is not a social construct, then it exists independently of society. This would support the idea of transgenderism being partly or totally "biological" in nature.

However, this would also mean that "gender roles" and gender-specific behavior must necessarily be partly or fully biological in nature. Here is the crux: this is not accepted as true according to modern sociology and progressive dogma. Gender roles and the idea of inherent differences in male/female behavior are viewed as strictly social constructs, i.e. having no basis in nature and biology. Modern feminism is based on the notion of gender being a social construct. Surely you're aware of all this?

There's obviously a logical contradiction here.... or have liberal semantic games changed the definitions of certain English words right under my nose?

I ask again: is gender a social construct or isn't it? It's a simple question.

a reply to: Talorc

Go back and watch the first 40 seconds of the video I posted.

originally posted by: Talorc

originally posted by: Phage

originally posted by: Talorc

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Talorc

AFAIK, it's standard neo-liberal dogma that started in the latter stages of the women's equality movement.

So, there were no transgendered before 1970?

I was talking about gender being a social construct. First it was, now apparently it isn't. Or maybe is and it isn't, just pick whichever "fact" suits the current fad.

Curious.
Wouldn't the existence of a social construct be dependent upon the society?

If gender is not a social construct, then it exists independently of society. This would support the idea of transgenderism being partly or totally "biological" in nature.

However, this would also mean that "gender roles" and gender-specific behavior must necessarily be partly or fully biological in nature. Here is the crux: this is not accepted as true according to modern sociology and progressive dogma. Gender roles and the idea of inherent differences in male/female behavior are viewed as strictly social constructs, i.e. having no basis in nature and biology. Modern feminism is based on the notion of gender being a social construct. Surely you're aware of all this?

There's obviously a logical contradiction here.... or have liberal semantic games changed the definitions of certain English words right under my nose?

I ask again: is gender a social construct or isn't it? It's a simple question.

Gender is a social construct

The biological make up the man/woman brain isn't really different.

www.sciencemag.org...

originally posted by: In4ormant

originally posted by: Talorc

originally posted by: Phage

originally posted by: Talorc

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Talorc

AFAIK, it's standard neo-liberal dogma that started in the latter stages of the women's equality movement.

So, there were no transgendered before 1970?

I was talking about gender being a social construct. First it was, now apparently it isn't. Or maybe is and it isn't, just pick whichever "fact" suits the current fad.

Curious.
Wouldn't the existence of a social construct be dependent upon the society?

If gender is not a social construct, then it exists independently of society. This would support the idea of transgenderism being partly or totally "biological" in nature.

However, this would also mean that "gender roles" and gender-specific behavior must necessarily be partly or fully biological in nature. Here is the crux: this is not accepted as true according to modern sociology and progressive dogma. Gender roles and the idea of inherent differences in male/female behavior are viewed as strictly social constructs, i.e. having no basis in nature and biology. Modern feminism is based on the notion of gender being a social construct. Surely you're aware of all this?

There's obviously a logical contradiction here.... or have liberal semantic games changed the definitions of certain English words right under my nose?

I ask again: is gender a social construct or isn't it? It's a simple question.

Gender is a social construct

The biological make up the man/woman brain isn't really different.

www.sciencemag.org...

Thanks for the clear and straightforward answer. It follows that transgenderism isn't biological.

I think I'm done here. These disputes always end the same way they usually start: with people dancing in circles around an ideological bonfire, muttering wards and making superstitious tribal gestures, perhaps hexing and cursing each other under their breath.

How great and high is the ascent of man.

a reply to: Talorc

BU researchers find biological basis for transgender identity

Is There Something Unique about the Transgender Brain?

Transgender: Evidence on the biological nature of gender identity

Just sayin'.

Taking the entire breadth of the findings uncovered by research, it appears that there is more than sufficient evidence that transgender persons either have a serious hormonal-based birth defect, have been exposed to exogenous chemicals which have impacted their gender development in the womb, have a genetic karyotype which differs from the general population, or via some other process have a brain structure which is different than would be indicated by their chromosomes. While no single study presents proof beyond any shadow of a doubt or with metaphysical certainty, taken together they do present a preponderance of evidence such that one can say with confidence that transgender individuals have a congenital gene-based difference from cissexual individuals.

a reply to: Freija

Do you support modern feminism and its basic tenets?

originally posted by: Talorc
a reply to: Freija

Do you support modern feminism and its basic tenets?

What does that mean?